official statement from the WPA: "Mike Sigel is not a World 9-ball Champion"

This is the European 14-1 medalists from 1980 to 1992.

Were any of them invited ot play in any World 14-1 Championships between 1980 to 1992, if there were such Championships organized? Or did they play if it was an open event? Did nations in Europe even know about World Championships hosted in America during these years?

1992 - Ljubliana, Slovenia
1. Bergendorff, Niklas SWE
2. Souquet, Ralf GER
3. Riiber, Lars Harold NOR
3. Ortmann, Oliver GER

1991 - Mussolente, Italy
1. Lundell, Jan SWE
2. Ortmann, Oliver GER
3. Markert, Waldemar GER
3. Hollenstein, Rolf SUI

1990 - St. Moritz, Switzerland
1. Ortmann, Oliver GER
2. Markert, Waldemar GER
3. Fasel, Samuel SUI
3. Strom, Arne SWE

1989 - Schaan, Liechtenstein
1. Ortmann, Oliver GER
2. Anda, Per SWE
3. Johannessen, Christian NOR
3. Lundell, Jan SWE

1988 - Stockholm, Sweden
1. Anda, Per SWE
2. Hoffmann, Bernd GER
3. Ortmann, Oliver GER
3. Schwarz, Albert AUT

1987 - Stolberg, Germany
1. Ortmann, Oliver GER
2. Engert, Thomas GER
3. Anda, Per SWE
3. Lang, Norbert GER

1986 - Oslo, Norway
1. Lang, Norbert GER
2. Karlsson, Jurgen SWE
3. Le Nory, Micke GBR
3. Pedersen, Bengt SWE

1985 - St. Johann, Austria
1. Karlsson, Jurgen SWE
2. Pedersen, Bengt SWE
3. Larsen, Reider Rune NOR
3. Nickel, Edgar GER

1984 - London, Great Britain
1. Pedersen, Bengt SWE
2. Ernst, Bruno GER
3. L Orange, Bjorn NOR
3. Hanscho, Karl AUT

1983 - Valkenburg, Netherlands
1. L Orange, Bjorn NOR
2. Jonsson, Bjorn SWE
3. Hjalmvall, Ulf SWE
3. Ernst, Bruno GER

1982 - Goteborg, Sweden
1. Hjalmvall, Ulf SWE
2. Karlsson, Jurgen SWE
3. L Orange, Bjorn NOR
3. Nickel, Edgar GER

1981 - Bern, Switzerland
1. Karlsson, Jurgen SWE
2. Eriksson, Tomy SWE
3. Markert, Waldemar GER
3. Laird, Roy IRL

1980 - Alsdorf, Germany
1. Eriksson, Tomy SWE
2. Spaniol, Norbert GER
3. Laird, Roy IRL
3. Nickel, Edgar
 
For example, when Bobby Hunter became World Straight Pool Champion in 1990, did Europeans like Oliver Ortmann play?

I am just interested in how the events were organised. How many players? Where did they come from? How did they earn their spots in the field?

Once again, I agree that Bobby Hunter is a World 14-1 Champion. But if for example Grady now puts up another 14-1 tournament and calls it the World 14-1 Championships, as he has said he will do, will people look at it as a World Championship? If so, why?
 
IIRC, the World Championships in 1993 included most of the players that competed in World Team Billiards -which was sponsored by Bob Meucci and spearheaded by Don Mackey.

The World Championships were open to all players that earned points on the pro tour. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but the top 32 were granted entry - the top 16 were seeded accordingly - I am not sure how the last 32 players were determined.

What I do remember, was that the pro tour was open to all players. All they had to do was show up. There was no exclusion, and that is evident by the participation of Jose Parica and Efren Reyes in the 1980's.

In 1990, the World Championships were held in Germany. (Earl Won)

In 1991,the World Championships were held in Las Vegas. (Earl won against Nick Varner)

In 1992, the World Championships were held in Taipei. (Johnny Archer won over Bob Hunter)

In 1993, the World Championship was held in Las Vegas (Johnny Archer defeated Efren Reyes in the final).

The tournaments may not be recognized by the WPA, nor the champions - but to those of us who know better - the tournaments and men that won them are legendary - and no matter what some silly-ass alphabet soup organization says about it, they earned the title of "WORLD CHAMPION".
 
Blackjack said:
IIRC, the World Championships in 1993 included most of the players that competed in World Team Billiards -which was sponsored by Bob Meucci and spearheaded by Don Mackey.

The World Championships were open to all players that earned points on the pro tour. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but the top 32 were granted entry - the top 16 were seeded accordingly - I am not sure how the last 32 players were determined.

What I do remember, was that the pro tour was open to all players. All they had to do was show up. There was no exclusion, and that is evident by the participation of Jose Parica and Efren Reyes in the 1980's.

In 1990, the World Championships were held in Germany. (Earl Won)

In 1991,the World Championships were held in Las Vegas. (Earl won against Nick Varner)

In 1992, the World Championships were held in Taipei. (Johnny Archer won over Bob Hunter)

In 1993, the World Championship was held in Las Vegas (Johnny Archer defeated Efren Reyes in the final).

The tournaments may not be recognized by the WPA, nor the champions - but to those of us who know better - the tournaments and men that won them are legendary - and no matter what some silly-ass alphabet soup organization says about it, they earned the title of "WORLD CHAMPION".
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thanks david! That's the kind of information I am looking for!!! Where can I find more information about these tournaments?
 
Roy Steffensen said:
thanks david! That's the kind of information I am looking for!!! Where can I find more information about these tournaments?
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I would get with Terry Ardeno - he has stats for most of the events from that era.

The PBT was open for all players, to include the players in Europe. I am positive that Thomas Engert, Ralph Eckert, Ralf Souquet, Norbert Lang. Tom Storm, Valdimar Markert, Niklas Bergendorf, Andam, Luat, Bustamante, Reyes, Parica, Tommy Donlon, Paul Potier, Takeshi Okumura, Fong Pang Chao, and many many other played in these events - especially the one held in Germany in 1990, and the 1993 WC that was held in Las Vegas.

There is virually no mention anywhere of the 1993 event in Vegas, but Johnny Archer defeated Efren in the final. The 1990 event in Germany, the final was Earl Strickland Vs Jeff Carter.
 
Would the statement from WPA be different if for example Ralf Souquet had won a World Championship before WPA started to organize them?

Would Thomas Overbeck, visepresident of WPA and german citizen, tell Ralf that the tournament he won was not a real World Championship? We will never know, but I know what I believe...
 
The WPA is proclaiming themselves the world body, but that means no more than the alphabet soup of boxing sanctioning organizations with their legions of world champions. Just because there are no rival associations for pool due to its lack of popularity doesn't make the the WPA any more meaningful than the WBA (World Boxing Association).
Mike Sigel was a world champion no matter how you slice it. The most important opinion is that of the body of pool players, not some artificial association. They can say Mike Sigel is not a WPA recognized world champion, but that is all they can say.
JMHO.
Steve.
 
I think and I could be wrong but between 90 and 95 Johnny and Earl won just about everything. Earl was player of the decade for the 80's so he must have taken alot of tourneys down during that tme.
 
What Blackjack, Spider, and Superstar said.

Mike Sigel may be loved and hated, but there's no denying he is a WORLD CHAMPION at this sport.
 
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Roy Steffensen said:
For your information, this is the World Champions, says the WPA

World 8-ball Champions:
2008 Ralf Souquet (GER)
2007 Ronnie Alcano (PHI)
2005 Chia-Ching Wu (TPE)
2004 Efren Reyes (PHI)

World 9-ball Champions:
Year Men Women Juniors Wheelchair
2008 Yuan Chun-Lin (TPE)
Remark:
2007 Daryl Peach (ENG) Xiao Ting Pan (CHN) Yi-Ko Pin (TPE) and Mary Rakin (USA) Henrik Larsson (SWE)
Remark:
2006 Ronnie Alcano (PHI) Kim Ga Young (KOR) Yu-Lun Wu (TPE) and Mary Rakin (USA)
Remark:
2005 Chia-Ching Wu (TPE) Yu-Lun Wu (TPE) and Jasmin Ouschan (AUT) Fred Dinsmore (IRE)
Remark:
2004 Alex Pagulayan (CAN) Kim Ga Young (KOR) Yu-Lun Wu (TPE) and Meng-Meng Zhou (CHN) Shou-Wei Chu (TPE)
Remark:
2003 Thorsten Hohmann (GER) **Not Played ** Vilmos Foeldes (HUN) Henrik Larsson (SWE)
Remark:
2002 Earl Strickland (USA) Hsin-Mei Liu (TPE) Ying-Chieh (TPE) Jounu T?hti (FIN)
Remark:
2001 Mika Immonen (FIN) Allison Fisher (ENG) Brian Naithani (GER) **
Remark:
2000 Fong-Pang Chao (TPE) Julie Kelly (IRE) Dimitri Jungo (SUI) Fred Dinsmore (IRE)
Remark:
1999 Nick Varner (USA) , Efren Reyes (PHI) Hsin-Mei Liu(TPE) Hui-Chan Lu (TPE) Bob Calderon (USA)
Remark: Played Twice in 1999
1998 Kunihiko Takahashi (JPN) Allison Fisher (ENG) Hui-Chan Lu (TPE) **
Remark:
1997 Johnny Archer (USA) Allison Fisher (ENG) Christian Goteman (GER) **
Remark:
1996 Ralf Souquet (GER) Allison Fisher (ENG) Kung-Chang Huang (TPE) **
Remark:
1995 Oliver Ortmann (GER) Gerda Hofstatter (AUT) Kung-Chang Huang (TPE) **
Remark:
1994 Takeshi Okumura (JPN) Ewa Mataya-Laurance (SWE) Jorn Kjolaas (NOR) **

World Straight Pool Champions:
2007 Oliver Ortmann (GER)
2006 Thorsten Hohmann (GER)
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World Champions or not, there are only three or four guys on this list who could hold Mike's cue. By that I mean are in the same class as Mike as a player. I'm not Mike's biggest fan right now, but there is no mistaking what a great player he was. Only one of the best of all time. And if he wants to call himself a former World Champion I have no problem with that.
 
Mike Sigel made straight pool look easy. To me, that says something because that is one helluva difficult game.
I don't need to look any further than his 150 and out against Mike Zuglan.
This is just crazy talk :cool:
 
Blackjack said:
IIRC, the World Championships in 1993 included most of the players that competed in World Team Billiards -which was sponsored by Bob Meucci and spearheaded by Don Mackey.

The World Championships were open to all players that earned points on the pro tour. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but the top 32 were granted entry - the top 16 were seeded accordingly - I am not sure how the last 32 players were determined.

What I do remember, was that the pro tour was open to all players. All they had to do was show up. There was no exclusion, and that is evident by the participation of Jose Parica and Efren Reyes in the 1980's.

In 1990, the World Championships were held in Germany. (Earl Won)

In 1991,the World Championships were held in Las Vegas. (Earl won against Nick Varner)

In 1992, the World Championships were held in Taipei. (Johnny Archer won over Bob Hunter)

In 1993, the World Championship was held in Las Vegas (Johnny Archer defeated Efren Reyes in the final).

The tournaments may not be recognized by the WPA, nor the champions - but to those of us who know better - the tournaments and men that won them are legendary - and no matter what some silly-ass alphabet soup organization says about it, they earned the title of "WORLD CHAMPION".
Click to expand...

The WPA website lists the following Champions from 1990 through 1993:
Click here to confirm: http://www.wpapool.com/index.asp?content=champ_9ball

Earl Strickland in 1990 (partially in accordance with your info, need to confirm site)
Earl Strickland in 1991 (partially in accordance with your info, need to confirm site)
Johnny Archer in 1992 (partially in accordance with your info, need to confirm site)
Fong-Pang Chao in 1993 (defers from your info).

Maybe additional research is required to check about 1990's World Championships.....
 
jay helfert said:
World Champions or not, there are only three or four guys on this list who could hold Mike's cue. By that I mean are in the same class as Mike as a player. I'm not Mike's biggest fan right now, but there is no mistaking what a great player he was. Only one of the best of all time. And if he wants to call himself a former World Champion I have no problem with that.
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Like Jay, I'm not a huge fan of Sigel. But if anyone or any governing body thinks that he is not a legitimate World Champion, they need their heads examined.

Mike
 
Mike Templeton said:
Like Jay, I'm not a huge fan of Sigel. But if anyone or any governing body thinks that he is not a legitimate World Champion, they need their heads examined.

Mike
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Either them or you guys being the ones who need your heads examined. But you guys include Efren, who at one time stated that Mike was his idol, and I've never heard Efren make a partial or unfair declaration.

Hmmmm, forget about heads being examined, off with their heads! LOL!


<<< thinks its retaliation for the IPT thingie and showing who's boss 'coz of the Spain and BMPAP thingie.
 
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I'll admit I don't stay on top of all these politics, and I actually avoid reading most of these related threads.

I did read this statement however, and my jaw dropped at how outrageously arrogant, ridiculous, absurd and ludicrous it was to say this.

Because I don't follow all this, I am assuming there will be a logical answer to my question ....

Why would Mike Sigel, or any of the defamed players agree to play in this upcoming 14.1 event in NJ? I see this as a direct slap in the face to them. I don't get it. Could someone explain please?
 
About two years ago on here I wrote a thread about having a National tour in the US for US players only (just like most other countries have). Well I got flamed pretty good for even thinking of doing that. Some said we would miss Efern and other great player from around the world. Others called me some unkind things that I'm still stinging from (NOT). Anyway, does an all US tour look any better now? :angry: Johnnyt
 
Blackjack said:
Business as usual.

Somebody in the WPA needs to pull their head out of their ass and accept the fact that the game of pool (and world championships) existed prior to their existence.
Click to expand...

Head_Up_Your_Ass.html

http://www.funlol.com/189/Head_Up_Your_Ass.html
 
all this in fighting and back biting..

and NOONE can figure out why pool cant get its sh*t together.

it's like two bangers arguing over the spot for a $20 game

if all of you people would grow up, suck it up, and compromise

all of these problems would go away..

grow up people... seriously

all of you involved in world class competition.. need to get on the same page

if you don't pro pool will just fade away
 
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softshot said:
all this in fighting and back biting..

and NOONE can figure out why pool cant get its sh*t together.

it's like two bangers arguing over the spot for a $20 game

if all of you people would grow up, suck it up, and compromise

all of these problems would go away..

grow up people... seriously

all of you involved in world class competition.. need to get on the same page

if you don't pro pool will just fade away
Click to expand...

Of course you are right, as I mentioned earlier, I really don't know the politics of all this, but one thing is for sure. Greed and money dominate behavior in areas much less lucrative than this one. I think we can forget the idea of money hungry people giving up on low life attitudes and actions when an opportunity to make money is before them.

p.s. Being ignorant to all the politics that seem to be involved with these struggles for self proclimation, I'd still like to know why the pro's like Sigel would even play in this upcoming 14.1 event after that statement I read that slapped them in the face. It doesn't make sense.

Not a rhetorical question btw, again, I'd love someone to shed more light on this please.
 
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