Ok, I will do my own but what about Hopkins
- Thread starter Grady
- Start date
What did I miss?
Are you kidding me, Grady?
The news is the money here, whether it's added or not. If he raised added funds, it might reasonably add something like..... $25,000 extra? So instead of a $1,000,000 fund it would be $1,025,000?
Get off your high horse. Start winning tournaments, start promoting them... or stop talking about them.
The news is the money here, whether it's added or not. If he raised added funds, it might reasonably add something like..... $25,000 extra? So instead of a $1,000,000 fund it would be $1,025,000?
Get off your high horse. Start winning tournaments, start promoting them... or stop talking about them.
StevenPWaldon said:
That's a very cruel thing to say to Grady Mathews, a player with an established track record in the discipline of pocket billiards, IMHO.
Grady Mathews has already won championship titles:
1983 Red's Open One-pocket
1984 World One-pocket
1984 River City One-pocket
1984 Busch Open Nine-ball
1985 Red's Open One-pocket
1995 Legends of One-pocket
And promoted tournaments: [fill in the blank here, somebody. I'm getting tired of Googling]
I think he has a right to talk about any damn thing he wants to on this forum, the same as you.
What gives you the right to be rude?
Why not show a little bit of respect instead of posting such a mean-spirited response to an established American pool champion.
JAM
Are you talking to me re: Grady, or Grady re: Hopkins?
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JAM said:
StevenPWaldon said:
The point is that you can agree or disagree with Grady's opinion regarding Hopkins' endeavor, but to to say, "Start winning tournaments, start promoting tournaments....or stop talking about them" to a man who has been doing both with distinction for about as long or longer than you've been alive is simply ludicrous!
StevenPWaldon said:
Dude, grab a cup of Coffee and chug it, and then re-read Jam's post, I suspect that it will be very very clear!!!!!!!!!
Oh and by the way, I think you have been breathing the fumes in the subway system too long Sweat Heart!!!!!
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Allen Hopkins has announced a potentially $1million tournament. It requires 500 entrants to put up $2000 each. It's been in the pool mags. There have been such large tournaments promoted in the past, but (except for the IPT, however you want to count that) they have been promoted by people who were never heard of before or since, and the tournaments never took place. Hopkins has a record of successful events, and he's been around a few decades.CaptiveBred said:
Some of the big league national championships approach $1M in payouts, but they also have 5,000 to 10,000 entries split into multiple divisions and a comparatively huge revenue stream to tap. $10/week, 25 weeks/year, 100,000 players, put your own numbers in if you don't like mine -- of course not all of the $25 million goes to the national championships.
My choice of words wasn't stellar in context. What I meant was in the present; Matthews hasn't done much for pool lately except for rag on it. When has he made a competitive effort in this millenium?
If people want to defend him, that's all good and well. But if his credibility rests on his current talent as a pool player, then let's have him step up already. He never made it past the first round of *ANY* Open IPT tournament. The last time he even placed in an established 14.1 event was four years ago, in the NJ 14.1 Championship.
All i'm saying here is that Grady is a tired champ, making a fuss when he should leave the rest of the sport to those who are still advancing it. The fact is that Hopkins has done more for the sport than Grady has in the recent past -- how does Grady get off being the jerk to criticize Hopkins? Get real here.
And VIP Professor, tell you what: if you want to bring age into context, let's post up. Grady has also been alive and in the sport for longer than John Schmidt, Thorsten Hohmann, and Tony Robles have been alive as well. Any time you care to pony up 25K to bet on a race to 1000 in 14.1, I'm game to back any one of them who he has many a decade on. I'll have the cash in hand. Can you say the same?
If people want to defend him, that's all good and well. But if his credibility rests on his current talent as a pool player, then let's have him step up already. He never made it past the first round of *ANY* Open IPT tournament. The last time he even placed in an established 14.1 event was four years ago, in the NJ 14.1 Championship.
All i'm saying here is that Grady is a tired champ, making a fuss when he should leave the rest of the sport to those who are still advancing it. The fact is that Hopkins has done more for the sport than Grady has in the recent past -- how does Grady get off being the jerk to criticize Hopkins? Get real here.
And VIP Professor, tell you what: if you want to bring age into context, let's post up. Grady has also been alive and in the sport for longer than John Schmidt, Thorsten Hohmann, and Tony Robles have been alive as well. Any time you care to pony up 25K to bet on a race to 1000 in 14.1, I'm game to back any one of them who he has many a decade on. I'll have the cash in hand. Can you say the same?
VIProfessor said:
StevenPWaldon said:
My point, Steve, is that someone with such a long and distiguished record of participation as a pro player and promoter should not, IMHO, be subjected to "put up or shut up" kinds of remarks in response to their opinions about the promotion or direction of tournaments. Our elder statesmen of the game should be honored, not villified! Further, as regards recent contributions to the game, Grady's commentary on Accu-Stats has played a tremendous role in educating thousands of pool players around the world who would have never had the opportunity to learn, from a player talking to a player, how to go about the game the right way. I am certainly one of them, and I will remain eternally grateful to Grady and others of his ilk who have made it possible for players like myself to overcome, at least to some degree, the limitations imposed by our geographical distance from the pool hotbeds of the world.
As to your proposed wager, I'll be happy to consider your offer...when your players are also 64 years of age!
"If I stay out 'til quarter to three, would you lock the door?
Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm 64?"
-The Beatles, of course!
Further edit: I admittedly don't have $25K that I can afford to put up on anybody, but I'll play YOU for some cheese! What room in NYC did you say you play out of?
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I dont think that Grady should be criticizing Hopkins because he is trying to have a big tournament,i mean Hopkins has done more for the players in recent times then anyone.If it says a million added based on full field then cool,if its a million guaranteed without this stipulation and it falls through then that sucks.Grady criticized Charlie Williams and his tournaments,i think he should just let these guys do there thing,and what they are doing is a good one,tournaments for players,HOOOORAHHH!
For all who care to read, Grady's statement was directed to Mr. Hopkins, who has not answered. Next, I can understand the purpose of this post, with all that has been happening with Pro-pool in the last twenty years it is about time that promoters start standing up for their events by posting the added money up front.
My statement is in no way directed at Mr. Hopkins, his reputation thus far has been above reproach, and to date he has my utmost respect. However, it appears that for some unknown reason Pool players do not bother to review the past recent history of this sport. Over and over again promoters offer either no guaranties or guaranties based upon money that is promised to them that is withdrawn at the last minute creating a dilemma for all concerned.
This has created a environment in the Pro-billiards community where in many cases unintentional deception has become a normal event. This can, however, be changed very easily. Promoters should not be able to advertise any event until at least all added moneys are in the bank and controlled by a disinterested third party for distribution upon completion of the event. Doing things in this manner will solve most of these problems over night.
I suspect this is what Grady is trying to say in essences. When Grady promoted events, he backed up the required money with his reputation, and out of his own pocket. This is not conjecture, it is however, the facts as I know them. I have been a devoted fan of all Pro-billiards since the 1970's, and throughout that time, I have never learned or even heard of players not being paid what they were owed from participation in Grady's event's.
Just my two cents worth!!!! I mean no disrespect to anyone, and I hope this event go's off without a hitch, hell it could be the new beginning that pool needs.
Have a great night!!!!!!
My statement is in no way directed at Mr. Hopkins, his reputation thus far has been above reproach, and to date he has my utmost respect. However, it appears that for some unknown reason Pool players do not bother to review the past recent history of this sport. Over and over again promoters offer either no guaranties or guaranties based upon money that is promised to them that is withdrawn at the last minute creating a dilemma for all concerned.
This has created a environment in the Pro-billiards community where in many cases unintentional deception has become a normal event. This can, however, be changed very easily. Promoters should not be able to advertise any event until at least all added moneys are in the bank and controlled by a disinterested third party for distribution upon completion of the event. Doing things in this manner will solve most of these problems over night.
I suspect this is what Grady is trying to say in essences. When Grady promoted events, he backed up the required money with his reputation, and out of his own pocket. This is not conjecture, it is however, the facts as I know them. I have been a devoted fan of all Pro-billiards since the 1970's, and throughout that time, I have never learned or even heard of players not being paid what they were owed from participation in Grady's event's.
Just my two cents worth!!!! I mean no disrespect to anyone, and I hope this event go's off without a hitch, hell it could be the new beginning that pool needs.
Have a great night!!!!!!
Well, the UPA tried to enforce rules on having the prize fund in escrow. I think an early case was the Sands in Reno. The Sands had been having their tournament for over 20 years with $20,000 added and there had never been a problem with the money. Now, some organization they had never heard of shows up and tells them they have to put money into an escrow account or else the UPA players couldn't play. I don't remember exactly how it came out, but I think the Sands may have told them to go away. On the other hand, by the time the IPT showed up, the UPA seems to have dropped its escrow requirement. Or, those weren't UPA tournaments. In any case, the money seems not to have been in escrow.manwon said:
And then there is the $400,000 in past-due prize money that I believe was never paid to PBTA players even after the $800,000 Camel settlement.
Steve was a bit out of line with his remarks... but the jest of his post holds some water...
Hopkins is trying to make something happen.. something big... there is no reason for him to feel "ashamed" about that..... regardless of who's mouth those words come out of....legendary status does not exempt you from good judgement......
Hopkins is trying to make something happen.. something big... there is no reason for him to feel "ashamed" about that..... regardless of who's mouth those words come out of....legendary status does not exempt you from good judgement......
Bob Jewett said:
Geez Bob...You KNOW Mackey had to pay for his golf course mansion. There just wasn't enough LEFT to pay the players! LOL
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
i've got nothing against grady, he's done a lot for the game, and maybe steven was a bit harsh. but give allen a chance - as has been mentioned several times already in this thread, his reputation both professionally and as a man is second to none. to just start a thread saying he should be ashamed of himself for suggesting this tournament sounds, well i dunno. bitter maybe? maybe he got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.
New York gamble
I can't pass up this opportunity to comment on what we used to call a "New York Gamble," which was no gamble at all. After Jersey Red, Boston Shorty, Irvolino, Richie Ambrose etc. left NYC, in order to get a pool bet in NY your body had to be decomposing. When I was on the road in NYC, I got zero money games. Zero. Me. I've been know to get action in the game room at the Sistine Chapel. I was in McGirrs one night, practicing on the main table. A hustler walked up to me and asked me if I played 1pkt. I said yes. He asked me if I wanted to play for $10 a game. I said yes. He said, "Ha Ha, see you later." and walked away. Steve, your offer to back young 300 ball runners against someone on social security sounds strangely nostalgic.
So that all the Jersey guys dont feel left out, your gamble quotient was probably about 5% higher than NYC, and that did include Allen Hopkins, who when I played him bank pool in Chicago, swore he would play me for days (while he had me stuck), but when I raised the bet and got even, he hopped like Bugs Bunny. He and his backer were even amazingly immune to the barrage of insults that I heaped on their East Coast heritage after they quit. Truthfully, all the great East Coast players and I were great pals throughout the years, but that don't mean I'd want any of them marrying my sister.
Rave on, Grady and don't let ego trick you into falling for one of those NY traps.
And a race to 1000 points? Gosh, Steve, that's really looking to lock things up. Does Grady have to flunk a physical too?
the Beard
StevenPWaldon said:
I can't pass up this opportunity to comment on what we used to call a "New York Gamble," which was no gamble at all. After Jersey Red, Boston Shorty, Irvolino, Richie Ambrose etc. left NYC, in order to get a pool bet in NY your body had to be decomposing. When I was on the road in NYC, I got zero money games. Zero. Me. I've been know to get action in the game room at the Sistine Chapel. I was in McGirrs one night, practicing on the main table. A hustler walked up to me and asked me if I played 1pkt. I said yes. He asked me if I wanted to play for $10 a game. I said yes. He said, "Ha Ha, see you later." and walked away. Steve, your offer to back young 300 ball runners against someone on social security sounds strangely nostalgic.
So that all the Jersey guys dont feel left out, your gamble quotient was probably about 5% higher than NYC, and that did include Allen Hopkins, who when I played him bank pool in Chicago, swore he would play me for days (while he had me stuck), but when I raised the bet and got even, he hopped like Bugs Bunny. He and his backer were even amazingly immune to the barrage of insults that I heaped on their East Coast heritage after they quit. Truthfully, all the great East Coast players and I were great pals throughout the years, but that don't mean I'd want any of them marrying my sister.
Rave on, Grady and don't let ego trick you into falling for one of those NY traps.
And a race to 1000 points? Gosh, Steve, that's really looking to lock things up. Does Grady have to flunk a physical too?
the Beard
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Done for the players? Hopkins? You people must be nuts. He takes all the money and receives awards. Mitch should do a mercy resignation, for god's sake. The bad commentary has really hurt our great sport.
Hopkins has meetings behind closed doors and comes up with wrestling like promotions that don't show pool in the light it needs and deserves.
I've had around 20 tournaments and managed to add $20,000 or more to most of them and nobody had to get an invite to play.
While I'm on a rant I may as well say that when the Phillapinos come to one of my events I pay their rooms and entry fees yet I never got an invite to come to their country to play in anything or do some work of any type. So why shouldn't I get on the phone and call Keith, Shannon, bUPA players from playing. I'm pretty sure the quality of play would be good enought o please paying audiences.
Hopkins has meetings behind closed doors and comes up with wrestling like promotions that don't show pool in the light it needs and deserves.
I've had around 20 tournaments and managed to add $20,000 or more to most of them and nobody had to get an invite to play.
While I'm on a rant I may as well say that when the Phillapinos come to one of my events I pay their rooms and entry fees yet I never got an invite to come to their country to play in anything or do some work of any type. So why shouldn't I get on the phone and call Keith, Shannon, bUPA players from playing. I'm pretty sure the quality of play would be good enought o please paying audiences.
Grady said:
Would you be so kind as to provide a list of the tournaments that you promoted, Grady? If you can find the time to list them on this thread, it would be great learning more about them. I am aware of the ones in recent times, but I am referring to the ones from a long time ago, before I met Keith.
I also believe that they are worthy of mention to provide an understanding to the young'ns who read this forum about your background, aside from the championship titles that you hold.
Thanks in advance.
JAM
