Old 9-ball players vs the New

[ironman]

Well, good to see input from all around.....JAM, I play and travel a bit with one of those old school guys and Keith ran with him for a long time and I don't think today's gamblers realize the money that was made compared to betting today. Another aspect is playing with your own money....That's the real pressure when you got a wife and kids at home...So when someone talks pressure, let me here the responsibilities that are involved. The knowledge about the game and the stroke coming from that era is far more than players realize. I wish I could tell what I've learned from that era, but I had to pay for it in some way or another. I stopped the most powerful break in nine ball from pocketing any balls on the break for 8 straight racks and all balls in the rack were touching. Tell me how, lol....
He just shrugged his shoulders. Is that rack rigging or just paying attention to the little things...New gen should look up to Old gen and never stop learning no matter what.

It has taken a few years but one thing I have figured out,"The older I get,,,,the better i was"!!

 

[cleary]

You're right. Players 20 years ago didn't give a damn about every shot. If they missed, why, they just figured, hey, c'est la vie.



Somebody should have informed Earl Strickland about that, poor fellow. He used to practice breaking and racking non-stop before tournaments. If only he had known that the break was not important when he was competing in tournaments. He might have been able to win more if he had just quit practicing that break, I'm thinking. You're correct.



Right.



:grin-square:



Well, cleary, you learn something new every day. Thanks for sharing.

JAM, do you play pool? Just wondering. I find it funny when you come on here barking at Bartram saying he "knows nothing about pool". If I were dating Billy Jean King, I wouldn't tell Serena Williams she doesn't know what's up.

I believe it was Pat Flemming who was known for giving away the break because he thought the break was a disadvantage. Im sure there were others.

Glad you learned something.

 

[JAM]

JAM, do you play pool? Just wondering...Glad you learned something.

No, cleary, I have never played pool. I am still learning how the game goes. I hope to be as proficient as the other forum members someday. I wish I knew as much as you. Thanks for helping me learn.

BTW, Pat Fleming's last name has one "m." Here is his Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Fleming_(pool_player)

 

[cleary]

No, cleary, I have never played pool. I am still learning how the game goes. I hope to be as proficient as the other forum members someday. I wish I knew as much as you. Thanks for helping me learn.

Well when you figure it out, let me know and we can play some.

BTW, Pat Fleming's last name has one "m."

Like you said, we learn something knew every day.

 

[JAM]

Well when you figure it out, let me know and we can play some.

Since you're a player and I don't know how to play, I, of course, would need a spot. Maybe we can negotiate that offline and play someday. I'm heading for New England in a few weeks. On the road again.

Like you said, we learn something knew every day.

Yep. Whoever contributes to those Wikipedia articles must know something about pool; that's for sure. I wonder if they all play themselves.

 

[JAM]

BTW, here's the entire picture from that Wikipedia artice that I just happen to run across.

This is Tom Gearhart on the left, who posts on AzBilliadrs and is one of the two promoters of the Glass City Open, posing with Pat Fleming.

Glass City Open was a wonderful tournament.

 

[cleary]

Since you're a player and I don't know how to play, I, of course, would need a spot.

You got the breaks. Good luck.

 

[cleary]

Yep. Whoever contributes to those Wikipedia articles must know something about pool; that's for sure. I wonder if they all play themselves.

"Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information."

-Michael Scott

 

[JAM]

"Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information."

-Michael Scott

That may be true to a certain extent. I use it for work-related reasons as a resource for looking up spellings. For that, it is very helpful.

However, they have editors and bots that delete material that is not backed up with reference sources. Anybody can write whatever they want, but how long it stays there is another story. :wink:

 

[JAM]

You got the breaks. Good luck.

Gee, can't you do better than that? I mean, you're a player and all, and since I don't know how to play pool, I was hoping to get the 2-and-out and all the breaks. To me, that would be a fair game.

I can play you a game of Scrabble. I'll spot you 50 points.

May the best man, woman win! :grin-square:

 

[JCIN]

At Glass City way back when I asked Buddy Hall about the new school vs old school thing. He said:

"When I used to go tournament I had to worry about 4 or 5 guys. Now everybody runs out."

That same tournament John Schmidt got a call to come play a one pocket game someone had staked him in. When he got down stairs he looked at his opponent and said "If I knew you put me in against Allen Hopkins I wouldn't have got out of bed."

For the most part the respect goes both ways I think.

 

[cleary]

Gee, can't you do better than that? I mean, you're a player and all, and since I don't know how to play pool, I was hoping to get the 2-and-out and all the breaks. To me, that would be a fair game.

I can play you a game of Scrabble. I'll spot you 50 points.

May the best man, woman win! :grin-square:

I can't run 4 balls so spotting you the breaks is a ton.

Find me on the Scrabble forums telling people they can't spell, then we can talk.

 

[JAM]

I can't run 4 balls so spotting you the breaks is a ton.

Find me on the Scrabble forums telling people they can't spell, then we can talk.

I did not know there was a Scrabble forum.

I did not know one had to know how to play pool to post on AzBilliards. I will have to review the rules.

Now that I think about it, maybe I have played a game or two in my life. So I think I can hold my own when it comes to pool-related topics, cleary.

 

[cleary]

Now that I think about it, maybe I have played a game or two in my life. So I think I can hold my own when it comes to pool-related topics, cleary.

Great to know, JAM. Drop that knowledge.

 

[JAM]

Great to know, JAM. Drop that knowledge.

Sarcasm noted, Cleary. Next?

 

[Johnnyt]

I have to apologize for the way I worded my OP. What I meant was IF they played and broke like they did back then that they wouldn’t have a chance with today’s player’s. I in know way meant that the players of old wouldn’t figure it out quickly and still be the great players that they were back then. I meant no disrespect to the great players back then. I’m 70 yo myself and most of my hero’s in pool were from back then. Johnnyt

 

[JAM]

I have to apologize for the way I worded my OP. What I meant was IF they played and broke like they did back then that they wouldn’t have a chance with today’s player’s. I in know way meant that the players of old wouldn’t figure it out quickly and still be the great players that they were back then. I meant no disrespect to the great players back then. I’m 70 yo myself and most of my hero’s in pool were from back then. Johnnyt

I recently had a job all about Abraham Lincoln. Today, Lincoln is still heralded as one of the all-time great orators and Presidents of these United States. In fact, there's a beautiful memorial dedicated to Lincoln in D.C. at the end of Memorial Bridge which faces Arlington National Cemetery where JFK is buried.

There is a documentary that recently came out on PBS entitled "Looking for Lincoln," exploring the myths and misconceptions about him. The man who created this great film dedicated years of research for this project, a Harvard professor by the name of Henry Louis Gates Jr.

As an aside, Gates recently had a beer with President Obama and a Cambridge police officer, Sergeant Crowley, after he was arrested for trying to enter his home, but that's a topic for another thread.

After traveling the globe, interviewing Lincoln experts, visiting museums, and speaking to American historians, Gates provided a glimpse into an Abraham Lincoln that one cannot read about in the history books, as they exist today.

Lincoln grew up in the 19th century, and before he became a lawyer, he was pro slavery. In fact, later on when he became President, there is one school of thought that he is blamed for the Civil War, that Lincoln could have prevented the entire conflict at the onset. As time went by, Lincoln changed his opinions about a variety of topics after he experienced life, as most of us do when we age.

The conclusion reached by Gates after reviewing all of the evidence is that it is not possible to judge a 19th-century man with 21st-century ideals. Lincoln was, in fact, a great man in the 19th century. They were different times with different societal norms and different ideals that would not fly in the 21st century.

For those interested, you can check out the documentary here: Looking for Lincoln.

Picture of Lincoln Memorial facing the U.S. Capitol and Washington Monument on The Mall.

 

[bulletjr]

JAM, did you read my post...

 

[JAM]

Well, good to see input from all around.....JAM, I play and travel a bit with one of those old school guys and Keith ran with him for a long time and I don't think today's gamblers realize the money that was made compared to betting today. Another aspect is playing with your own money....That's the real pressure when you got a wife and kids at home...So when someone talks pressure, let me here the responsibilities that are involved. The knowledge about the game and the stroke coming from that era is far more than players realize. I wish I could tell what I've learned from that era, but I had to pay for it in some way or another. I stopped the most powerful break in nine ball from pocketing any balls on the break for 8 straight racks and all balls in the rack were touching. Tell me how, lol....
He just shrugged his shoulders. Is that rack rigging or just paying attention to the little things...New gen should look up to Old gen and never stop learning no matter what.

Yes, I sure did read it and loved every single word of it. :lovies:

Where are you from in NC?

 

[Island Drive]

A lot of the talk is how once great players would play today but I've played with clay balls where every ball was different and you had to learn how each ball rolled. I've played with cloth so deep that you had to account for the ball curving at the end of it's path due to the weave of the cloth. Of course these tables and balls required a ton of stroke, particularly the 5x10's, and the cues would fill your hand, not the little wands used today.

We talk about the problems that the old players would face today but the same is true of today's players if they went back to that day. They would be crushed when they first tried to play. However they would very soon adapt and be in pretty much the same place in the pecking order in that day as they are in today's pecking order.

The athletes of today are superior to the athletes of yesteryear as a whole due to advances in nutrition, medicine, and sports conditioning. However few if any of the advances have any substantial effect on pool play. Joe Davis was using clay balls and was hearing reports of huge runs people were making across the water with the new plastic balls. He eventually swapped to the plastic balls and made some huge runs of his own. It wasn't the players that were superior, it was the equipment.

All of our equipment is superior from cue tips to cushion rubber. Our style of play reflects this. We hit every ball ad cushion expecting it to respond the same as the other balls and cushions. Think what it was like when you had to take into account which ball you were hitting, which cushion(s) you were hitting, and which way you were going on the table if you were banking or shooting slowly you had to consider which way the weave was going to make the ball curve. An old pool hall kept the balls for each of it's five by ten tables separate. I still remember that the four and the seven on my favorite table would curve badly if not hit firmly into the pocket so you had to play shape to drive them into a nearby pocket.

Today's players have far better equipment. They may be at a slight physical advantage. They may have a touch more intelligence on average although I grow skeptical if the human race as a whole is growing more intelligent. The top players from earlier eras were far more knowledgeable and more adaptable. They had to be to excel in the conditions they played in. Climate control alone has made a huge difference in play.

My feeling is that the greats of today and of yesteryear would have been great whenever they were born.

Hu

Bingo....................................................:thumbup: