On Chuck Bobbitt...

[noRulez]

Here's several of a dozen PMs I have received.

JAM

Who would send you a negative PM? Only someone wanting a negative rep in return. Honestly JAM, I don't know you personally and you don't know me from Adam. If not for these meaningless quarrels you get yourself involved in, I'd have the utmost respect for you. As it stands, you've belittled yourself far too many times and I consider that a shame. I may not post a lot, but I read just about every post. That is just my opinion. Can we please stop this meaningless banter and move on?

p.s. Don't take this as negative so much as a plead for you to save face and take the higher road.

 

[Blackjack]

If you want it to stop, why do you keep posting to me?

Why not follow your buddy Blackjack's advice and cease and desist.

I guess according to Blackjack, it is okay for you, Corvette, Watchez, Roy, Shinobi, and himself to post mean-spirited things about me, but when I respond, I am the bad guy. I get it now.

JAM

Quite frankly, I don't really care about the arguments - I mean the Louie Roberts argument goes back at least 5 years on RSB - I wasnt interested in it then, so whats the point in being interested now?

To me, all of this is equally annoying, I'm not saying that to choose sides - or support buddies - or to bash you at all, JAM - I'm saying this thread is WAY off topic, and some of us actually care about the thread title and any new information that comes in on it.

Myself, I'm abandoning this thread - I'll wait for a new thread on this subject that will stay on topic.

 

[Bastian]

Who would send you a negative PM? Only someone wanting a negative rep in return. Honestly JAM, I don't know you personally and you don't know me from Adam. If not for these meaningless quarrels you get yourself involved in, I'd have the utmost respect for you. As it stands, you've belittled yourself far too many times and I consider that a shame. I may not post a lot, but I read just about every post. That is just my opinion. Can we please stop this meaningless banter and move on?

Whoa.. couldn't have conveyed my own sentiment any better than this.. well said and rep to you sir!

 

[JAM]

Who would send you a negative PM? Only someone wanting a negative rep in return. Honestly JAM, I don't know you personally and you don't know me from Adam. If not for these meaningless quarrels you get yourself involved in, I'd have the utmost respect for you. As it stands, you've belittled yourself far too many times and I consider that a shame. I may not post a lot, but I read just about every post. That is just my opinion. Can we please stop this meaningless banter and move on?

p.s. Don't take this as negative so much as a plead for you to save face and take the higher road.

Thank you for your comment.

I have done nothing to deserve the torment I have received being a member on this forum.

I apologize to you, who do not know me, for having to read the negative colloquy.

I know I don't belong on this thread or on this forum. Thanks for stating your thoughts politely.

In light of everything else written about me today, I am not able to absorb anymore.

JAM

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

All My Ice Cream Melted (and the cat licked it all up)

Can we please stop this meaningless banter and move on?

And, what are we supposed to do with all this popcorn.
Doug
( I just ordered a Pizza, TOO )


PS
What round is this ?



.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

I'm Never Too Busy To Help Someone....imo

Quite frankly, I don't really care about the arguments - Myself, I'm abandoning this thread - I'll wait for a new thread on this subject that will stay on topic.

Here ya go, David http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=98433

Doug



.

 

[FLICKit]

$ 24,000.00 in entries
$ 25,000.00 added
$ 10,000.00 ish in gate money
$ 3,000.00 ish Diamond table raffle
@$ 62,000.00 Gross receipts

Paid out - $15,000.

This is not a simple mis-calculation. This group got KT?d

Ray

OK, you've looked at just the revenues, and then made assumptions...

Now let's see if you can give as detailed a description of the expenses necessary to put forth the event in Phoenix.

Not saying who's right or wrong...
Just saying that in order to make a reasoned assessment, you have to know the full picture (revenues and expenses).

After that, next step would be to refer back to the budget projections.

With the budget projections along with a timeline of the revenues and expenses, only then would one be able to accurately piece together the full picture of how and where things went terribly wrong.

Right now, it's too easy to use hindsight knowledge of the fact that major checks bounced, and then spew "should've", "could've" and "would've" statements and accusations.

Just saying without full analysis and understanding of the total picture, then it's not surprising that these negative events keep repeating.

As the saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Yet clearly this is not the first pool event to go sour on the player funds.

 

[Bigtruck]

Exactly

OK, you've looked at just the revenues, and then made assumptions...

Now let's see if you can give as detailed a description of the expenses necessary to put forth the event in Phoenix.

Not saying who's right or wrong...
Just saying that in order to make a reasoned assessment, you have to know the full picture (revenues and expenses).

After that, next step would be to refer back to the budget projections.

With the budget projections along with a timeline of the revenues and expenses, only then would one be able to accurately piece together the full picture of how and where things went terribly wrong.

Right now, it's too easy to use hindsight knowledge of the fact that major checks bounced, and then spew "should've", "could've" and "would've" statements and accusations.

Just saying without full analysis and understanding of the total picture, then it's not surprising that these negative events keep repeating.

As the saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Yet clearly this is not the first pool event to go sour on the player funds.

So your saying It's the players fault? What do you have to add to the analysis?

The above figures came from Jay Helfert's post.

Ray

 

[jay helfert]

From my lil investigation on this matter, I am told that Chuck guaranteed the original hotel WITH A SIGNED CONTRACT that a certain # of rooms would be booked & he also agreed to pay for the space to be used for the tournament. In other posts, Jay has advised that he has always been able to negotiate the free space into any event that he held himself. Why Chuck didn't follow this business practice & set himself up to fail by signing such a contract is why this all went down hill. This was the need to change venues away from the hotel to the pool room.

Jay, did you hear the same or is this not true?

I don't think Chuck ever signed that contract. A man named Kevin Lewis did. The hotel ballroom was billed at $1,500 a day, not a bad rate. But it was based on 300 room nights, meaning if 60 rooms were rented for five nights each (at $159/nite), he would get the good rate on the ballroom.

Two days before the event (immediately after I arrived), I went into a meeting with Chuck and the hotel people. Only a few rooms had been booked and they were concerned the minimums would not be reached. They asked Chuck to give them a bank check or use a credit card to secure the guarantees. They asked him for $35,000! He offered to write them a check, which is kind of funny now. Of course, the hotel people would not accept his check.

When we left the meeting, I began to ask Chuck about his finances. He was evasive with me, only saying that he could not use his lone credit card. Something about a missing payment??? I asked him if he had money in the bank to cover the added money and he told me it was "on the way". Now I got really worried. He claimed that a friend from out of state was wiring the money into his account. I told him to get that friend on the phone right now and get that done or I was leaving. We were in the car heading for Kolby's.

He tried calling but got an answering machine. This began the scenario of me asking him every hour or so what's happening with the money. Finally on Wednesday (the day before the tourney) he tells me the wire went through and he got the 25K. I asked to see the bank statement, which he produced the next day. It did show a deposit of $25,000. And a balance of $38,000.

Most of the players had not yet paid their entry fees, so the great majority of that money (at $400 per) came in a Wednesday. I would estimate that at least 45 players paid their entries on site. Probably more like 50. That's 20K right there. Plus the $38,000 in the bank, more than enough to cover the prize fund. Or so I thought!

 

[Prince]

I don't think Chuck ever signed that contract. A man named Kevin Lewis did. The hotel ballroom was billed at $1,500 a day, not a bad rate. But it was based on 300 room nights, meaning if 60 rooms were rented for five nights each (at $159/nite), he would get the good rate on the ballroom.

Two days before the event (immediately after I arrived), I went into a meeting with Chuck and the hotel people. Only a few rooms had been booked and they were concerned the minimums would not be reached. They asked Chuck to give them a bank check or use a credit card to secure the guarantees. They asked him for $35,000! He offered to write them a check, which is kind of funny now. Of course, the hotel people would not accept his check.

When we left the meeting, I began to ask Chuck about his finances. He was evasive with me, only saying that he could not use his lone credit card. Something about a missing payment??? I asked him if he had money in the bank to cover the added money and he told me it was "on the way". Now I got really worried. He claimed that a friend from out of state was wiring the money into his account. I told him to get that friend on the phone right now and get that done or I was leaving. We were in the car heading for Kolby's.

He tried calling but got an answering machine. This began the scenario of me asking him every hour or so what's happening with the money. Finally on Wednesday (the day before the tourney) he tells me the wire went through and he got the 25K. I asked to see the bank statement, which he produced the next day. It did show a deposit of $25,000. And a balance of $38,000.

Most of the players had not yet paid their entry fees, so the great majority of that money (at $400 per) came in a Wednesday. I would estimate that at least 45 players paid their entries on site. Probably more like 50. That's 20K right there. Plus the $38,000 in the bank, more than enough to cover the prize fund. Or so I thought!

I'm not familiar with wire transfers, but it sounds like Kevin Lewis may have something to do with it as well. Is it possible he wired the money, and then retracted it? Not sure that is even possible.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I'm not familiar with wire transfers, but it sounds like Kevin Lewis may have something to do with it as well. Is it possible he wired the money, and then retracted it? Not sure that is even possible.

Hey Prince,clear your PM box brother.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

I'm not familiar with wire transfers, but it sounds like Kevin Lewis may have something to do with it as well. Is it possible he wired the money, and then retracted it? Not sure that is even possible.

It may have simply been 'flash cash' and meant to be returned the next day in full.
Doug



.

 

[jay helfert]

I'm not familiar with wire transfers, but it sounds like Kevin Lewis may have something to do with it as well. Is it possible he wired the money, and then retracted it? Not sure that is even possible.

That wasn't the name Chuck gave me. It was a Chris ?. And the money was coming from out of state, Colorado I believe. Once it's in your account, they can't take it back either. It's not quite that simple.

 

[FLICKit]

So your saying It's the players fault?

If you believe that was what I said, then you are grossly in error.

What do you have to add to the analysis?

Simply, that we don't have all the facts. Especially true for all the bystanders who've had no involvement in this.

Jay is already handling the situation rationally and reasonably, based on the actual info that he has. I prefer to let reason take its course, rather than rumors and innuendos from the gallery, which aren't being helpful.
(note: that statement is not directed at any one person in particular. No need to take personal offense)

 

[watchez]

It may have simply been 'flash cash' and meant to be returned to Kevin Lewis the next day in full.
Doug



.

Or it could have been a fake or doctored bank statement that he showed Jay. Doesn't Chuck own some kind of print shop? Even without a print shop, I bet corvette could 'show us' a bank statement showing a $25K deposit, using Photoshop.

 

[huckster]

Wow this is like highschool

 

[ScottW]

If this Chuck fellow suddenly got hit with a big hotel bill due to low room bookings, that could well explain his tournament winnings payout shortfall.

What was it Jay said? Initial rate was $1500 a day and then the hotel (due to low room bookings) wanted $35,000? That's a HUGE difference, especially if you're counting on the former rate.

Plus, hotel people can be true scumbags. I know this from experience. About 15 years ago, I ran a little sci-fi type convention here in Atlanta for a couple of years. Both years, different hotels - both hotels that had had similar events held there in the past over the years - both found ways to screw me out of some extra cash.

The first one, less than a week out, tells me that they can't supply the number of folding chairs I had requested - said request being put in months before - and that I had to pony up an extra few hundred practically on the spot to cover outside rentals.

The second one, there was a small typo on the contract - considering the current subject, ironically, it had to do with ballroom space discounts based on rooms booked. It was a sliding scale - 0-50 rooms no discount, 51-100 rooms, X discount, etc. The typo was that there was a gap in the sliding scale - went like 51-100, then 151-200 or somesuch. My room bookings fell into the gap, so they chose to interpret this as meeting the lower discount as opposed to splitting the difference. Of course, they call me into their office to tell me this - and the hotel rep I'd been dealing with face-to-face this whole time conveniently wasn't there, but told me this over speakerphone. Classy. Oh, and then they said "Oh and we've gone ahead and charged your credit card for this difference already".

If the hotel isn't getting paid, and I mean *right then* - they won't let you pay them AFTER the event - they will close the doors on you. They know you have no alternatives, other than to cancel your event - and they count on having that barrel to roll you over onto.

As several posts have cited lower-than-expected attendance and room bookings at Chuck's event, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if something similar happened to Chuck, and he was left with two choices - cancel the event and deal with THAT massive fallout, or pay the hotel and let the event go on, and figure out how to deal with the cash issue later.

 

[jay helfert]

If this Chuck fellow suddenly got hit with a big hotel bill due to low room bookings, that could well explain his tournament winnings payout shortfall.

What was it Jay said? Initial rate was $1500 a day and then the hotel (due to low room bookings) wanted $35,000? That's a HUGE difference, especially if you're counting on the former rate.

Plus, hotel people can be true scumbags. I know this from experience. About 15 years ago, I ran a little sci-fi type convention here in Atlanta for a couple of years. Both years, different hotels - both hotels that had had similar events held there in the past over the years - both found ways to screw me out of some extra cash.

The first one, less than a week out, tells me that they can't supply the number of folding chairs I had requested - said request being put in months before - and that I had to pony up an extra few hundred practically on the spot to cover outside rentals.

The second one, there was a small typo on the contract - considering the current subject, ironically, it had to do with ballroom space discounts based on rooms booked. It was a sliding scale - 0-50 rooms no discount, 51-100 rooms, X discount, etc. The typo was that there was a gap in the sliding scale - went like 51-100, then 151-200 or somesuch. My room bookings fell into the gap, so they chose to interpret this as meeting the lower discount as opposed to splitting the difference. Of course, they call me into their office to tell me this - and the hotel rep I'd been dealing with face-to-face this whole time conveniently wasn't there, but told me this over speakerphone. Classy. Oh, and then they said "Oh and we've gone ahead and charged your credit card for this difference already".

If the hotel isn't getting paid, and I mean *right then* - they won't let you pay them AFTER the event - they will close the doors on you. They know you have no alternatives, other than to cancel your event - and they count on having that barrel to roll you over onto.

As several posts have cited lower-than-expected attendance and room bookings at Chuck's event, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if something similar happened to Chuck, and he was left with two choices - cancel the event and deal with THAT massive fallout, or pay the hotel and let the event go on, and figure out how to deal with the cash issue later.

I don't think the hotel got any money either. They are in line too, right behind the players as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ironman]

I don't think the hotel got any money either. They are in line too, right behind the players as far as I'm concerned.

This is reminding more and more of the IPT stink. Someone got sold a real "Bill of goods".

 

[ScottW]

I don't think the hotel got any money either. They are in line too, right behind the players as far as I'm concerned.

Like I said in my post, in my experience, the hotels basically threatened to shut down my events unless they were paid. I imagine the hotel that Chuck's event was held at operates the same way. It's fairly standard practice as far as I know.

I suppose someone (you! ) could contact the hotel and ask, but I doubt they would share that info, considering it would be a third party inquiring about a business transaction they had no part in. *shrug*