Once again Earl shows his lack of class, what a disgrace

[allen_jr]

Golf is not a good analogy in the instance you guys are talking about. Like you said, golf does not have someone standing over the players on every shot. When a match has a ref, it is up to the ref to call the game. Some will feel that he should have called it anyway, but few of us have ever played in a match with a ref. The times a ref is called into our matches to call a hit, what he says goes.

I have been in a game when my opponent was at the table and I called in a ref to watch a hit. It was obviously bad but the person watching the hit called it good. My oppenent ran out, and the said I cant believe he called that good. I didnt think ANY less of him as thats how it goes, the ref missed it.

I find it interesting that people like to get on Earl for that shot because it was on tape. If anyone watches much straight pool you will see many of the past champions commit fouls that the ref doesnt call, and NONE of them call it on themselves. Im talking about double hits, and am not bringing up names because it really doesnt matter.

Anyone that knows me knows if I foul, or even think there is a high chance that I commited a foul, I will call it on myself. I would like to think that I would do the same in the case being discussed but intil I make my living playing pool and playing in matches that have refs I wouldnt be able to answer positively.

When your in a match and someone is called in to watch the hit, if you think its bad and the person calls it good do you go ahead and call the foul on yourself? This question is not posed to anyone inparticluar. Just a general question for everyone to consider.

Woody

Well, I didn't start this to bash on Earl, it could have been any player in his position. I realize this happens to be a thread about Earl, I was just reminded of the incident in someone else post and thought it was fitting to mention. (This post isn't directed at Woody, I just didn't know where to quote from)

My thoughts have always been that the referee is there to make announcements, rack balls, call fouls that the player may not have noticed, and to be used in discretionary situations where it could turn out to be an argument between players . This was none of those. Everyone in range saw it (well, except Scotty obviously). This wasn't a close call, or a questionable shot. It was just an accident.

I know everyone isn't honest, and everyone has different views of honor. It is just my personal thought of what an honorable player would do. Yes, I have called fouls on myself if my opponent did not see. It's just the way I play.

Some may feel that gives them an edge over me apparently, and that's fine. I don't make a living playing pool, and I'm not too proud to admit that against a lot of players I'll probably lose. I would rather be proud of the way I played than feel like I had to cheat to win, which is essentially all that is.

And again, at a higher level of play, in a public arena, I expect more from a champion. Could have been any shooter, in this case it was just Earl. If I was watching a live pro golf event and saw Tiger kick his ball out of a bad lie because no one was looking, I would lose some respect for him too.

In any game, there are great players. Some of the great players are loved and well respected. Other great players are despised and/or don't get respect from others. This is merely one example of why. You can be great and acknowledged, or you can be great and acknowledged, and earn admiration and respect. Personally, I'd rather be respected as well.

 

[Yancey]

In the words of one of the greatest coaches ever in the sport of football...."You show me a good loser and I will show you a loser!"

Vince Lombardi

Earl a long time ago earned the right to his lifetime entry to this event, if he wants to rake the balls in disgust when he missed a shot he feels he should of made or if he rakes the balls as some old time players have seen in the past other players because he is conceding to the skill of the other player when he missed a shot he should of made, that is his business and perogative.

For others to judge him, who have done far less for this sport, then hope that some of us dont start judging you when you become the self appointed judge of others. Who has that right?

I agree with Spidey, slow your roll, this is a real thing and these are real people that we write about on this board. If your purpose is to discredit then sometimes the person doing the discrediting is the person that gets discredited.

 

[JAM]

...sometimes the person doing the discrediting is the person that gets discredited.

I have heard angry words from several players that have expressed their opinions at some of the things written on this forum. There have been NUMEROUS threads on this forum about professional players, not just Earl, that have been made for the sole purpose of discrediting them, often unfounded and only for ridiculing them.

I happen to believe that the reason why pool is diminishing in popularity in the United States is because much, but not all, of the American pool public, as evidenced by this very pool forum, has no respect for professional players.

Professional players are labeled as bums without jobs and a lot of other ridiculing adjectives whenever anyone expresses the reality about the lack of payouts in pool. As most know, the payouts are the same today as they were 30 years ago, yet the cost of living has quadrupled.

Me personally, I am saddened by what has happened to pool, at least pool the way I used to know it, but, in a way, I'm glad to have experienced it. One thing for sure, those who demean professional players can pound-and-ground, hammerfist, and do a rear rodeo mount on this forum with their verbal assaults, but they can't take away the happy memories of the way it was. It's their loss.

Enjoy pool for what it is today, a recreational game for league players and weekend regional events. It is a fun game. "Game," I say today, not a sport. The existing lot of professional players in America is diminishing for the very reasons I have stated above.

Heck, why not have Team Asia versus Team Europe instead of Team USA versus Team Europe for the Mosconi Cup. That's what pool has become. Actually, it's a reflection of the global environment today. United States of America. Yep, we're united all right. :frown:

 

[frankwhite]

I don't agree with your analogies. All the sports you mention are games that by nature are highly officiated with referees required to make calls on every pitch, hike or dribble. Secondly, they are all team sports. Thirdly, in these sports not even the players involved in the call are necessarily in a position to have all the information or seen all aspects of the play in order to make the call.

A better analogy is golf, an individual sport where officiating does not take place on every stroke of the ball, and officials are not expected to be able to see every stroke taken by every player.

And in golf, players routinely call penalties on themselves, EVEN when no one else including their playing partner, officials, or spectators saw the infraction. It is expected for a player to do this. As a matter of fact, if they don't call the penalty on themselves and the infraction is later discovered or reported, that player is DISQUALIFIED from the event. This is one reason golf is considered a gentleman's game played by men of honor in spite of the storied gambling and hustling that is part of its history.

As far as the Earl-Charlie incident goes, when I saw it it did not appear to me that Earl was simply abiding by the referee's decision like some here have said. It appeared to me that he was basically arguing the point that since the ref didn't see it then he cannot call it, whether it happened or not. Whether you agree or disagree with whether he should have called it on himself in that situation (major tournament, big money involved, ref's responsibility etc.) is really beside the point. To me the point is that in that situation - where your opponent, the spectators, the commentators, the TV cameras (and slo-mo replays) and the entire TV viewing audience saw the foul - then it doesn't make you look good if you don't man up to it and your reputation (legacy even) will be damaged to some extent because of it, right or wrong.

Dogs, I think your 100% correct. Dont know how much my opinion is worth, but, I do agree w/ you. It is by far the responsibility of the official to make a call at the table. He can move to any angle to get a clear call. And may I add, with Scott's experience all these years it just should'nt happen. Hey, if the official don't catch it by legal right the call need go to the shooter.

 

[frankwhite]

Golf, Golf, Golf, and Golf...WTF

I have a question. We all play pocket billiards? We are on a pool related forum. Why is pool constantly compared to "GOLF". Golf has nothing to do with pool, imo.

Frankie

 

[corvette1340]

Corvette,
Read the title of your thread: "Once again Earl shows his lack of class, what a disgrace". The title of your thread alone indicates that you've bashed Earl more on more than one occasion.

In searching the archives, you've mentioned Earl in 133 separate postings over the years so you've certainly have been a major contributor to critiquing Earl's behavior.

In this thread alone, you've called Earl everything from a clown, to classless and a disgrace to the sport. It's ironic that you're calling Earl a clown when it's you that should be called a clown. Your opening this thread with such a vitriolic title shows your own lack of class. Furthermore, I would say that you're a disgrace to us fellow rail birds.

the thread title reflects my viewpoint that Earl does this same thing over and over again. In no way does it substantiate me having a history of bashing Earl. Please reference all of those times I've had Earl's name in my posts. I'm quite certain I've praised Earl's play far more than I've criticized his behavior on here.

I find it extremely funny that people like you can see all of the summaries of first hand accounts in this thread, either by people that were there or watching the ppv and still feel that Earl did nothing wrong or out of line. There are about 30-40 people in this one thread alone that share that sentiment yet you tell me that I am wrong for voicing my opinion when I was actually watching his meltdown. Were you watching? No you weren't. End of discussion. I win again.

 

[MVPCues]

I have a small point to make regarding the foul in the Williams match being discussed.

Earl did not deny the foul, nor did he pretend to ignore the situation by not saying anything and going to his seat. It has already been shown that it is at least a reasonable viewpoint for some players to decide that when a referee is overseeing the match, the referee should call all fouls. If one assumes that is Earl's viewpoint and he chooses to live with that viewpoint, he did nothing dishonest. In fact, he was honest about fouling.

The question is, if there was no referee, and it was left up to the players to call fouls on themselves, does anyone believe Earl would have denied the foul when Charlie jumps up to call it? I personally believe he would have admitted to the foul to Charlie and Charlie would get ball in hand. If not, Earl would have just raked them and gave him the game.

I think a lot of Earl's behavior reflects poorly on the game. I don't think he should be given a pass for his great accomplishments, but I still hopefully cheer for him. But in the Williams foul, I think some of the attention is unwarranted. I have seen several fouls during TV matches that were not called by the ref, but the announcers saw it. It happens, and one can only hope in the long run karma evens out regarding missed or bad calls.

Kelly

 

[SJDinPHX]

There are those on this forum who will make excuses for Earl's antic's because they worship his talent and his accomplishments.

I barely know the man, and I understand he has some mental health issues, that make him seem to crave controversy and confrontation.
Even if he is winning, he seems to find a way to draw the spectators in to some form of "let's get on poor Earl's case"

I don't care how good he plays, he has almost single-handedly given the entire pool world, a negative look at the most spoiled and inconsiderate side of American principles.
I have 3 grown sons, and if any of them threw any tantrums like that, (even when they were in grade school) they would have got an ass whipping from me, AND mother.

He was one of the most gifted individuals ever, in our little world. Its a shame to see him not accept his inevitable decline, and age gracefully.

Sorry, but I refuse to become someone who watches auto racing, just to see the bad wrecks.

SJD

 

[Neil]

.................

 

[BHQ]

i'll try this asking again :thumbup:
is there any video of this???????????????

 

[14-1StraightMan]

I totally agree

There are those on this forum who will make excuses for Earl's antic's because they worship his talent and his accomplishments.

I barely know the man, and I understand he has some mental health issues, that make him seem to crave controversy and confrontation.
Even if he is winning, he seems to find a way to draw the spectators in to some form of "let's get on poor Earl's case"

I don't care how good he plays, he has almost single-handedly given the entire pool world, a negative look at the most spoiled and inconsiderate side of American principles.
I have 3 grown sons, and if any of them threw any tantrums like that, (even when they were in grade school) they would have got an ass whipping from me, AND mother.

He was one of the most gifted individuals ever, in our little world. Its a shame to see him not accept his inevitable decline, and age gracefully.

Sorry, but I refuse to become someone who watches auto racing, just to see the bad wrecks.

SJD

I totally agree with you & what the "PoolMaster" have written. Earl is an embarrassment to the USA. I remember watching the Mosconi Cup on TV and I was embarrassed when he was having his outburst. I think of a professional athlete as a "Good Roll Model" for kids. Do I want my kid watching & behaving like this guy....... NO. What ever the sport. There are players that have this type of attitude and behavior problems that are very hurtful to their sport. (Arrested for drugs, shooting themselves in the leg, Steroids, etc.) I do believe that these type of players have no respect from the majority of fans.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

i'll try this asking again :thumbup:
is there any video of this???????????????

I don't know BHQ. I set my dvr to record billiards on ESPN Classic, which runs @ 5 x's a week at 10am EST. I saw this match from one of the recordings. He moved a ball plenty enough to know he'd moved it. The debate as to whether he should have called it on himself or not has been debated and I conclude it's a personal choice.

Charlie hardly hesitated IIRC. He knew it for sure. That he just kept on playing - seemingly unaffected - was very impressive to me.

 

[corvette1340]

Just for the record. I'm not sure how all of the Earl/Charlie foul/no foul situation from a few years ago got called into the thread describing Earl's meltdown from Friday except to emphasize some of the antics from Earl in the past. I however, cannot comment on this one situation because I was not there myself and did not witness it.

I can voice my opinion as to the situation on Friday because I did witness it as did a ton of others in this thread. Furthermore, I am welcome to voice my opinion that Earl does this over and over again as I have been first hand witness to several Earl meltdowns where his conduct was way out of line. I've seen him break a shaft, cuss people out, and rake all the balls on the table several times. One of which was against Landon Shuffett when Landon was about 10, lol. I will say that when he broke the shaft in Athens, a fan retrieved it from the trash can and Earl signed it for them.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions about Earl. If people see nothing wrong with him cussing people in the stands out, flipping them off, berating the refs about jump cues/shot clock/etc., breaking stuff, and being disrespectful to his opponents and fans then so be it. I will say that other players do get out of line, that's just human nature. But what makes Earl different is that he does it ALL OF THE TIME. He doesn't have isolated incidents of meltdown. His isolated incidents are when he doesn't have a meltdown nowadays, and that is sad to say to the least.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

the thread title reflects my viewpoint that Earl does this same thing over and over again. In no way does it substantiate me having a history of bashing Earl. Please reference all of those times I've had Earl's name in my posts. I'm quite certain I've praised Earl's play far more than I've criticized his behavior on here.

I find it extremely funny that people like you can see all of the summaries of first hand accounts in this thread, either by people that were there or watching the ppv and still feel that Earl did nothing wrong or out of line. There are about 30-40 people in this one thread alone that share that sentiment yet you tell me that I am wrong for voicing my opinion when I was actually watching his meltdown. Were you watching? No you weren't. End of discussion. I win again.

Let's be clear: I certainly don't condone Earl's inappropriate behavior. Having said that, I think you are getting a certain sadistic pleasure in starting this thread and literally pushing Earl down the stairs and vilifying him in a public forum.

In this thread you've called Earl a clown, lacking class and a disgrace. As proof of that, you've cited Earl's raking the balls and covering his ears. It's already been explained to you that Earl was simply conceding the game after missing an easy shot with ball-in-hand. With Earl's high standards, perhaps he didn't feel like he deserved to win after missing with BIH.

As for Earl's covering his ears, by itself it surely doesn't mean that he lacks class and is a disgrace. Have some empathy for him, especially if Earl actually does have mental problems.

Compared to other incidents that have occurred with Earl, what happened here was hardly the "meltdown" that you're making this out to be.

 

[corvette1340]

Let's be clear: I certainly don't condone Earl's inappropriate behavior. Having said that, I think you are getting a certain sadistic pleasure in starting this thread and literally pushing Earl down the stairs and vilifying him in a public forum.

In this thread you've called Earl a clown, lacking class and a disgrace. As proof of that, you've cited Earl's raking the balls and covering his ears. It's already been explained to you that Earl was simply conceding the game after missing an easy shot on the 2 with ball-in-hand. With Earl's high standards, perhaps he didn't feel like he deserved to win after missing with BIH.

As for Earl's covering his ears, by itself it surely doesn't mean that he lacks class and is a disgrace. Have some empathy for him, especially if Earl actually does have mental problems.

Compared to other incidents that have occurred with Earl, what happened here was hardly the "meltdown" that you're making this out to be.

are you ever gonna read post #124 by Cornerman or are you simply gonna keep describing the situation that you didnt witness yourself? I am one of like 500 people on here that share the sentiments about Earl's behavior. Out of those 500 people, all 500 also share the opinion that Earl is a champion player, but his conduct is ridiculous. You are singling me out because I started the thread and somehow my opinion, which is EXACTLY like a ton of others, is weighted more than others in your eyes.

If someone acts like an idiot, deals drugs, dumps, or does anything else that I consider unsavory then I am gonna voice my opinion on it regardless of how well they pocket the balls.

Likewise, when someone acts like a champion, goes out of his way to be nice to the fans, shows integrity in tourneys and gambling matches, works hard, and does the right things then I'm gonna commend them for it.

Please look up all the posts and comments I've made about Stevie Moore, Shannon Daulton, Corey Deuel, Gabe Owen, Donny Mills, Chris Bartram, Ralf Souquet, Rodney Morris, John Schmidt, Darren Appleton and a ton of others that conduct themselves with class for the most part and especially in front of tourney audiences and the paying fans.

 

[JusticeNJ]

are you ever gonna read post #124 by Cornerman or are you simply gonna keep describing the situation that you didnt witness yourself? I am one of like 500 people on here that share the sentiments about Earl's behavior. Out of those 500 people, all 500 also share the opinion that Earl is a champion player, but his conduct is ridiculous. You are singling me out because I started the thread and somehow my opinion, which is EXACTLY like a ton of others, is weighted more than others in your eyes.

Epic Logic Fail.

 

[TX Poolnut]

i'll try this asking again :thumbup:
is there any video of this???????????????

Earl's side of the story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXAPSHF0dXo

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Regarding the Earl-Charlie incident... what most seem to forget, is that it was mentioned in the players meeting that the players were NOT to call fouls on themselves, it was the refs responsibility to do so.

Now, I don't know if that was what was going through Earls mind at the time or not. But, before all the bashing goes on, that point needs to be considered. In his mind, he just might have been trying to follow the rules for that tournament. Just something else to consider.

I wasn't in the players meeting so perhaps you can clarify what was said in it, because I'm not sure by your post if it meant that the players were not supposed to call fouls among each other (i.e. you calling a foul on me & me on you) or if it was specified that players were not allowed to call fouls that they themselves committed (you calling a foul on yourself and me on myself).

I can understand some rationale for the rule for not wanting players to referee each other if there is a ref on the match. But why would a player calling a foul on himself present a problem? Off the top of my head I can't imagine a player calling a foul on himself cause a problem such as delay of the match or an argument with his opponent.

From the point you are making about what was said in the players meeting, are you saying that if Earl had called the foul on himself the referee would not have allowed Earl to do that and the would have insisted Earl continue to shoot?

 

[8pack]

Earl

I wonder what kind of bad chit Earl has heard from players,and people in general why he,s been playing.
Anybody watch the color of money?earl misses a shot,and you can here a f bomb from someone.Its a wonder efren didnt have the guy excuse himself
from the place.Playing for 100,000 and you got to fade this kind of chit.
Its a perfect world aint it.

 

[Neil]

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