One pocket shot what do you do?

[gulfportdoc]

Since I’ve already explained, and possibly upset a few, re how the average one-pocket player shouldn’t be playing the game from an inability to execute sufficiently well...

Eddie, I'd like to invite you to visit your friends over at onepocket.org. You might enjoy trading stories with Incardona, Freddy Bentivegna, San Jose Dick McMorran, Grady, Artie Bodendorfer, and many others. At the very least, I assure you that we will all understand your points.

I certainly enjoyed your thoughtful correspondence with me several years back, and I look forward to your posts over at onepocket.org.

Very best regards,

Art "Doc" Tripp

 

[Eddie Robin]

Eddie R here; thanks for touching bases once again!

Eddie, I'd like to invite you to visit your friends over at onepocket.org. You might enjoy trading stories with Incardona, Freddy Bentivegna, San Jose Dick McMorran, Grady, Artie Bodendorfer, and many others. At the very least, I assure you that we will all understand your points.

I certainly enjoyed your thoughtful correspondence with me several years back, and I look forward to your posts over at onepocket.org.

Very best regards,

Art "Doc" Tripp

Well someone who actually lets me know who they are and even provides their full name; unusual guy! Looked ya up and found we've had some really nice communications since August 2005. Nice to hear from ya again.

Well I'll tell ya something between us and Billy, he certainly did me a good turn. I'd been making quotes on a thread at the AZB re a diagram and made a slight error in wording because the table situation changed somewhat in my mind from not going back to review the diagram. Well, let me tell ya, I was fighting off a pack of wolves from just a tine error in wording until Billy bailed me out by explaining to them what I'd really meant! I certainly owe him one.

I gave them some data re fundamentals and then managed a nimble exit. Wow! Escaped with my scalp!!!

Hey, of course you guys would understand my points; goes without saying. For all I know, I may not understand yours! Except for a few weeks years ago, I've been away from pool since 1965! Who knows what has been learned since then and who knows what I'm liable not to even remember. I sort of have to get my feet wetall over again and took a shot at getting on that forum for a few days. Won't be doing that again on any forum for awhile because I'm currently so overloaded with work ... I can't even tell ya just how overloaded I am with attempts to swing deals on getting back into business, selling a few more books, completing my move into this house, and so on and on.

I've been wanting to meet up with Artie B again for he also helped me quite bit for I know all about the post he made about me on one pocket dot org--I seen it. About time someone decided I should be known for how I played. I'd complained to him upon our meeting here in Las Vegas awhile back and look what happened awhile later; wow! Don't get me wrong, I never wanted any glory and definitely don't want to be in a hall-of-fame because, for I have good reason to believe I don't deserve such an honor. I never cared much for getting people to know how I played until Freddie began making up so many lies about me and why I was able to beat everyone who would play. If you only knew the whole truth you would be embarrassed for him. And what a disappointment from Grady! Last time I'd talked to him about why he posted along with Freddie that I'd never beaten anyone, his reply to my question as to why Bugs wouldn't play me in 1965 was that it was because he must have been 9-years old at the time! Bugs was a year older than me!!!

Give my best to San Jose Dick; we had some nice talks when I was back in Phoenix and I even came across some nice things he said in my behalf. Shame he lost that game to Kelly in Johnston City years ago; who knows, he might have otherwise won the damn thing. I certainly know what thats like. Lost an international tournament by a single point against Navarro of Argentina in 1972 and had to quit the game once again.

Got a guy expected to pick up a refrigerator here in about ten minutes and so gotta sign off for now. I still don't get how these private messages work--don't ya have an email address? Mine is er89121@aol.com.

Thanks for touching bases once again,

Eddie R

 

[poolplayer2093]

So you 2-rail the 4, but don't hang it:

CueTable Help

How does your opponent "just start pocketing the uptable balls" from here?

CueTable Help

pj
chgo

Ha! man you and me are on the same page for sure!

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou, how can you do this to me? I'm still surrounded with unopened boxes from the move I've made more than two months ago! This will be even more of a rush job and am sorry about that. Well, might as well. So much of my stuff has already leaked out over the years and printed by people unable to think original thoughts, you have no idea!

Copyright © 1986 Eddie Robin, Revised Copyright © 2009-06-01

First of all, the following happens to be copyrighted material from my work on a book I hope to one day complete. I am providing most of it here for my fellow AZBilliard members in a revised form with the understanding that it is not to be copied and used elsewhere. I’m retaining full ownership of this work.

Though you well knew I’d enjoy doing so, there’s insufficient time for me to criticize how the pause step has been wrongly taught in many places by many people; guess some of you are somewhat relieved that I don’t have more time available for this and a few that would probably have found this read a bit more more entertaining. I’ve gone to my outline on the subject and filled it in as best I could in the little time I have for this. Know up front that the pause step will be found to help most but not all players and I’ve not addressed this, among a few other things, in the following work.

Pause Step; Definition & Purpose

The pause step is simply a postponement in delivery of one’s final stroke. It does not necessarily have to cause a loss of rhythm in stroking, in fact, done correctly, it won’t. Its purpose is to simply help one to achieve a fuller shift of attention from where it was while preparatory stroking to the delivery of one’s final stroke, or execution stroke, thereby increasing one’s ability to shoot the shot at hand. Mental training patterns (habits formed from analytical attention rather than reaction), put in place from and/or while preparatory stroking, permit a shooter to more fully switch attention to the pause and then delivery of the final stroke.

Why the Pause Step Works

An ability to execute a final stroke is naturally increased when a shooter’s analytical attention more fully assumes the task. A continuation of rhythmic movements can be accomplished with but the slightest of analytical attention, as in breathing, walking, running, etc. thereby permitting much of one’s attention to be elsewhere or in greater force on specific parts of one’s activity; causing a change in such movements requires additional analytical thought. The pause step is the recommended change in movement that will facilitate a fuller shift of analytical attention from the fine-tuning of direction, spin, and speed when preparatory stroking to the execution of one’s final stroke.

Using The Pause Step Correctly

The most common error found in those that do utilize the pause is an alteration of rhythm while pausing. The pause does not require one to discard the back and forth rhythm utilized by the preparatory strokes, and it would be a mistake to do so, for rhythm is an important requirement of ability. If one’s pause is sufficiently on beat, the continued rhythm will permit a more natural, automatic carry-over of whatever was accomplished while preparatory stroking. I’m not claiming this pause step easy to learn. You may find it extremely hard work and quite difficult to master for the well-executed pause requires a great increase in attention.

Two Main Advantages of the Pause

There are two quite important yet very different advantages for those employing the pause. The first is derived from doing it right and the other from when doing it wrong. 1. A greatly increased number of attention units gathered to accomplish a well-done full pause is then available for the final stroke; precisely when one’s attention should peak I might add. 2. Consider an incomplete pause that alters or breaks your rhythm as a warning, whether or not you make the shot at hand. It’s a warning to pay more attention to the timing of your next pause and all that comes before it. You see, nothing like this ‘just happens’ … a commencement of preparatory strokes before fully satisfied with stance, for example, may have been the distraction that, in turn, resulted in the shortened pause from a lessened ability of attention. There will be more on the subject of when and how to look earlier to detect and remedy weaknesses before they can worsen in the later section on trouble-shooting.

Brief History of the Pause Step

Many fine players as far back as the 1800s had utilized the pause step. Most of them had what is often referred to as a “slip stroke;” a stroke which quite naturally brings about the hesitation we refer to and provides some additional force with less effort as well. However, it was the great snooker player, Joe Davis, who, although admittedly not fully understanding why the pause worked, had first described its stabilizing effect on his shooting. He made what might have been the first intense effort into understanding how and why the pause worked and advertised its advantage in books on snooker. Another great World Snooker Champion named Joe Davis went a bit further with his explanation as to how “the pause becomes vital for consistent timing” (see his 1981 95-page book, Successful Snooker).

"Each time I think I'm out they pull me back in."

You're welcome Lou (are you the lou that lives in California that books in 2007?),

Eddie robin

Eddie, thanks for responding in such detail. (BTW, I'm not the CA guy, I'm in St. Louis). I'm sure some of your response will make for an exciting point of departure for future discussions here

Though I'm dying to ask you about a couple of other things (aiming systems anyone there is one specific question I'd like to ask: Do you have any specific thoughts about grip position, or grip placement -- the positioning of the grip hand along a certain point on the cue -- and how it affects the stroke?

Lou Figueroa

 

[Eddie Robin]

Sure; much in book on basics expect published someday

Eddie, thanks for responding in such detail. (BTW, I'm not the CA guy, I'm in St. Louis). I'm sure some of your response will make for an exciting point of departure for future discussions here

Though I'm dying to ask you about a couple of other things (aiming systems anyone there is one specific question I'd like to ask: Do you have any specific thoughts about grip position, or grip placement -- the positioning of the grip hand along a certain point on the cue -- and how it affects the stroke?

Lou Figueroa

Hi again Lou,

Sure; much about such things in books on basics that I hope to get published someday. I already gave ya around 60-70 percent of what I know about the pause out of my preparatory notes; yes, there's a lot to know about selection of both grip positioning and grip type to suit shot at hand, and yes, there is also things to know re how such things affect the stroke and yes, I've got pages re the subject of aiming and aiming methods and even what I consider the very best aiming method, one I'd put together just a few years ago, ... THERE IS MUCH TO KNOW THAT JUST AIN'T OUT THERE!

Look, you are not going to get me to paste another page or two of stuff out of my notes on such subjects. For now, I'm satisfied in simply waking up a few as to how there is much to be learned about fundamentals and how they may actually be of importance in helping reach higher levels of play. You will now just have to wait for such work to be in a completed book. Actually, it will have to be a set of three books for there is just too much to be known about fundamentals to put in a single book. Does it all make ya wonder about authors who have inferred how there really isn't much to know about body positioning? Hey, I'm anxious too.

My work will eventually get completed if I have anything to say about it, I just have to stay healthy and persist and pull in some dough. Any wealthy people out there willing to donate to the cause? I'm also looking forward to when I can resume work on the fundamentals of pool and billiards, but I've got several other books that have to be published first and can't even get to them; too much work for a guy who can't put in the long hours anymore. Wanna come to Las Vegas and put in some hours to help me get all my work done?

Lou, the time for you to ask these questions is a couple of months before publication of such work; that will certainly increase book sales. You are doing this possibly as much as five years too early!

Really wish I could provide all I know right now, but I can't.

Think I now remember you! Were you the guy that I'd helped when dissappointed upon realizing someone sold you the screwed-up first edition of W1P?

Eddie Robin

 

[lfigueroa]

Hi again Lou,

Sure; much about such things in books on basics that I hope to get published someday. I already gave ya around 60-70 percent of what I know about the pause out of my preparatory notes; yes, there's a lot to know about selection of both grip positioning and grip type to suit shot at hand, and yes, there is also things to know re how such things affect the stroke and yes, I've got pages re the subject of aiming and aiming methods and even what I consider the very best aiming method, one I'd put together just a few years ago, ... THERE IS MUCH TO KNOW THAT JUST AIN'T OUT THERE!

Look, you are not going to get me to paste another page or two of stuff out of my notes on such subjects. For now, I'm satisfied in simply waking up a few as to how there is much to be learned about fundamentals and how they may actually be of importance in helping reach higher levels of play. You will now just have to wait for such work to be in a completed book. Actually, it will have to be a set of three books for there is just too much to be known about fundamentals to put in a single book. Does it all make ya wonder about authors who have inferred how there really isn't much to know about body positioning? Hey, I'm anxious too.

My work will eventually get completed if I have anything to say about it, I just have to stay healthy and persist and pull in some dough. Any wealthy people out there willing to donate to the cause? I'm also looking forward to when I can resume work on the fundamentals of pool and billiards, but I've got several other books that have to be published first and can't even get to them; too much work for a guy who can't put in the long hours anymore. Wanna come to Las Vegas and put in some hours to help me get all my work done?

Lou, the time for you to ask these questions is a couple of months before publication of such work; that will certainly increase book sales. You are doing this possibly as much as five years too early!

Really wish I could provide all I know right now, but I can't.

Think I now remember you! Were you the guy that I'd helped when dissappointed upon realizing someone sold you the screwed-up first edition of W1P?

Eddie Robin

OK, thanks again, Eddie. I guess I'll just sit tight and twiddle me thumbs for a few years... though, if you were ever in the mood to share just a smidgeon of info on grip placement, I'd be happy to read and/or correspond at:

lfigueroa@att.net

oh, and I'm not the second guy you're thinking of either. My wife, Gail, bought me each of your two 1pocket books as presents, back when they first became available. You may have spoken to her. Me? I was just thrilled to get them. I don't believe we've had any direct contact.

Lou Figueroa
yet

 

[SJDinPHX]

Well someone who actually lets me know who they are and even provides their full name; unusual guy! Looked ya up and found we've had some really nice communications since August 2005. Nice to hear from ya again.

Well I'll tell ya something between us and Billy, he certainly did me a good turn. I'd been making quotes on a thread at the AZB re a diagram and made a slight error in wording because the table situation changed somewhat in my mind from not going back to review the diagram. Well, let me tell ya, I was fighting off a pack of wolves from just a tine error in wording until Billy bailed me out by explaining to them what I'd really meant! I certainly owe him one.

I gave them some data re fundamentals and then managed a nimble exit. Wow! Escaped with my scalp!!!

Hey, of course you guys would understand my points; goes without saying. For all I know, I may not understand yours! Except for a few weeks years ago, I've been away from pool since 1965! Who knows what has been learned since then and who knows what I'm liable not to even remember. I sort of have to get my feet wetall over again and took a shot at getting on that forum for a few days. Won't be doing that again on any forum for awhile because I'm currently so overloaded with work ... I can't even tell ya just how overloaded I am with attempts to swing deals on getting back into business, selling a few more books, completing my move into this house, and so on and on.

I've been wanting to meet up with Artie B again for he also helped me quite bit for I know all about the post he made about me on one pocket dot org--I seen it. About time someone decided I should be known for how I played. I'd complained to him upon our meeting here in Las Vegas awhile back and look what happened awhile later; wow! Don't get me wrong, I never wanted any glory and definitely don't want to be in a hall-of-fame because, for I have good reason to believe I don't deserve such an honor. I never cared much for getting people to know how I played until Freddie began making up so many lies about me and why I was able to beat everyone who would play. If you only knew the whole truth you would be embarrassed for him. And what a disappointment from Grady! Last time I'd talked to him about why he posted along with Freddie that I'd never beaten anyone, his reply to my question as to why Bugs wouldn't play me in 1965 was that it was because he must have been 9-years old at the time! Bugs was a year older than me!!!

Give my best to San Jose Dick; we had some nice talks when I was back in Phoenix and I even came across some nice things he said in my behalf. Shame he lost that game to Kelly in Johnston City years ago; who knows, he might have otherwise won the damn thing. I certainly know what thats like. Lost an international tournament by a single point against Navarro of Argentina in 1972 and had to quit the game once again.

Got a guy expected to pick up a refrigerator here in about ten minutes and so gotta sign off for now. I still don't get how these private messages work--don't ya have an email address? Mine is er89121@aol.com.

Thanks for touching bases once again,

Eddie R

Hi Eddie,

Sure appreciatte your kind words and thoughts. Thoroughly enjoyed my small contribution to S,M,& S. I certainly know how hard you, and Sarge and others worked to bring those two literary icons of the pool world, to fruition.

I too, took a long hiatus from pool, ('73 to '93) and it turned out to be the real glory years of the game.
I often think, what if...but I can't say I regret the life choices I made at that stage of my life.

I wish you success in your future endeavors in putting out future publications, which, given your proven track record, will surely be well accepted.

I don't play much any more (and I miss it) I do give lessons and clinics occasionally, but I do have a lot of free time.
If there is any way I could be of help to you, don't hesitate to ask.
I am useless as far as computers or word processors go. But I know you need help with player interviewing and research.

Give me a shout-out and I'll do whatever I can.

Best Regards,

Dick Mc Morran

SJDinPHX@yahoo.com

PS Doesn't Ken A. (Sarge) live in LV now. Tell him I said hi if you see him.

 

[freddy the beard]

Lies?

......I've been wanting to meet up with Artie B again for he also helped me quite bit for I know all about the post he made about me on one pocket dot org--I seen it. About time someone decided I should be known for how I played. I'd complained to him upon our meeting here in Las Vegas awhile back and look what happened awhile later; wow! Don't get me wrong, I never wanted any glory and definitely don't want to be in a hall-of-fame because, for I have good reason to believe I don't deserve such an honor. I never cared much for getting people to know how I played until Freddie began making up so many lies about me and why I was able to beat everyone who would play. If you only knew the whole truth you would be embarrassed for him. And what a disappointment from Grady! Last time I'd talked to him about why he posted along with Freddie that I'd never beaten anyone, his reply to my question as to why Bugs wouldn't play me in 1965 was that it was because he must have been 9-years old at the time! Bugs was a year older than me!!!.....

Eddie R

Do you really want to get into a Flame War with me? When Artie knew you in the early 60s he was a teenager who played like one. About Bugs being afraid to play you, I will graciously and mercifully leave that one alone. You seem to forget that the only guy to vouch for you that you played good at the Golden Eight Ball in the 60s, was ME. To stoke your ego and confirm your stories, I was the guy that you asked to send you a personal, signed (by me) document (that stated that you used to play good) to that effect. Do you still have that document? I do. I still have a copy. Like J Edgar Hoover, I have copious files on everybody. Do you want to back off or continue to call me a liar?

the Beard

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Wow--- this is getting good. We should put Beard and Eddie on TAR

 

[SJDinPHX]

Wow--- this is getting good. We should put Beard and Eddie on TAR

PPV on TAR, could bring in......maybe $1.80, or thereabouts. (maybe 10-12 viewers....if it were free)

This has become almost a typical AZ thread. We can understand it when the adolescent members "flame away", but aren't these guys all over 25 or 30 years old ?

Dick <---prefers mutual respect, to free-for-all bashing. I'm thinking the admins. might want to re-instate Ed Wheat and Mike Janis in order to keep a healthier, more enjoyable "flame level".

 

[The Saw]

Don't sweat it Eddie.... Grady and Freddy are just bitter to everyone. Freddy respects Artie though, thats about it.

 

[Eddie Robin]

Train yourself the think percentages on ALL execution.

Don't sweat it Eddie.... Grady and Freddy are just bitter to everyone. Freddy respects Artie though, thats about it.

For "The Saw,"

First of all, does your nickname refer to your style of stroke or what you use or do to your opponents?

Second; though I've decided to at least partially catch up to a ton of work I do take a look at this thread between various tasks. For some reason, your simple "don't sweat it Eddie" hit me just right. Kinda relaxed me a bit; I'll probably not even come to a conclusion as to what I should do re "The Beard's" post until I somehow get a ton of work done over the next several days. [I believe I now understand what I'd done wrong for that intended private message to get posted; confusion over what I now see as three different sections (messages received, messages sent, and posts). Didn't realize one could also post from that tab.]

Third, and most importantly since this will concern the intended subject-matter of this thread: From not understanding why so much fuss over this particular shot, I decided to provide a way of looking at this shot that may simplify it somewhat further for some of the members.

Both options provide an opportunity to either score or place a ball right by the shooter's pocket. In all billiard games (snooker, 3-cushion, pool) it helps to think in terms of percentages on all that must be accomplished. For example, you may figure your chances are 40% in pocketing the ball on the 2-cushion bank and 58% in leaving it quite close to your pocket. Those percentages should be compared to your estimates on cutting the ball. Depending on your abilities, one of those options may obviously provide the greatest chance for success (for you!).

One more point on this. Should those percentages be equal or almost equal in your case, cutting the ball then must be the right shot for you because the score dictates not wanting to bring balls downtable. (Gotta be real careful now that I've learned how "Pittsburgh Billy" or "San Jose Dick" might be watching us.)

To be absolutely sure you guys get my point, I personally might have actually gone for the 2-cushion bank, depending on the size of table and pockets and even how how I felt, because straight-shooting was my weakness and knowledge of cushions possibly my greatest strength.

I'll probably peek in from time-to-time but don't expect replies for quite awhile.

Once again thanks to "Saw" for the kind words; you must have somehow known they would help and obviously wanted to do just that.

For greater understanding between us all; keep in mind how one cannot hate that which he understands (hey, that was a good one!).

Eddie Robin

 

[Eddie Robin]

Really appreciate your willingness to help on my book project

Hi Eddie,

Sure appreciatte your kind words and thoughts. Thoroughly enjoyed my small contribution to S,M,& S. I certainly know how hard you, and Sarge and others worked to bring those two literary icons of the pool world, to fruition.

I too, took a long hiatus from pool, ('73 to '93) and it turned out to be the real glory years of the game.
I often think, what if...but I can't say I regret the life choices I made at that stage of my life.

I wish you success in your future endeavors in putting out future publications, which, given your proven track record, will surely be well accepted.

I don't play much any more (and I miss it) I do give lessons and clinics occasionally, but I do have a lot of free time.
If there is any way I could be of help to you, don't hesitate to ask.
I am useless as far as computers or word processors go. But I know you need help with player interviewing and research.

Give me a shout-out and I'll do whatever I can.

Best Regards,

Dick Mc Morran

SJDinPHX@yahoo.com

PS Doesn't Ken A. (Sarge) live in LV now. Tell him I said hi if you see him.

Hi "San Jose Dick,"

Things are currently quite confused here and so will postpone contacting you re to your willingness to contribute to my book project. Don't think even for a moment that I don't realize your value on such work. Hope you understand that I'm really and truly up to my ears and should be therefore admonished for even peeking in at AZB's for I'm so easily tempted to re-start once again.

Don't ya ever get to Las Vegas area? I know, I know, I know; why don't I go to Phoenix!

For ever straighter shooting,

Eddie Robin

 

[The Saw]

For "The Saw,"

First of all, does your nickname refer to your style of stroke or what you use or do to your opponents?

Second; though I've decided to at least partially catch up to a ton of work I do take a look at this thread between various tasks. For some reason, your simple "don't sweat it Eddie" hit me just right. Kinda relaxed me a bit; I'll probably not even come to a conclusion as to what I should do re "The Beard's" post until I somehow get a ton of work done over the next several days. [I believe I now understand what I'd done wrong for that intended private message to get posted; confusion over what I now see as three different sections (messages received, messages sent, and posts). Didn't realize one could also post from that tab.]

Third, and most importantly since this will concern the intended subject-matter of this thread: From not understanding why so much fuss over this particular shot, I decided to provide a way of looking at this shot that may simplify it somewhat further for some of the members.

Both options provide an opportunity to either score or place a ball right by the shooter's pocket. In all billiard games (snooker, 3-cushion, pool) it helps to think in terms of percentages on all that must be accomplished. For example, you may figure your chances are 40% in pocketing the ball on the 2-cushion bank and 58% in leaving it quite close to your pocket. Those percentages should be compared to your estimates on cutting the ball. Depending on your abilities, one of those options may obviously provide the greatest chance for success (for you!).

One more point on this. Should those percentages be equal or almost equal in your case, cutting the ball then must be the right shot for you because the score dictates not wanting to bring balls downtable. (Gotta be real careful now that I've learned how "Pittsburgh Billy" or "San Jose Dick" might be watching us.)

To be absolutely sure you guys get my point, I personally might have actually gone for the 2-cushion bank, depending on the size of table and pockets and even how how I felt, because straight-shooting was my weakness and knowledge of cushions possibly my greatest strength.

I'll probably peek in from time-to-time but don't expect replies for quite awhile.

Once again thanks to "Saw" for the kind words; you must have somehow known they would help and obviously wanted to do just that.

For greater understanding between us all; keep in mind how one cannot hate that which he understands (hey, that was a good one!).

Eddie Robin

Well Eddie, big thanks to you for WOP and SM&S!!! The two best books ever written on pool. My WOP is MIA and I dearly miss it, a buddy loaned me SM&S and I am soaking all of that knowledge up now. Great stuff in there.... Thanks to all of the contributors as well, including Grady......

I want you and the other posters here to know that I am not dogging Grady and Freddie for no reason. First, I have been around Freddie a couple of times, read his posts here, and leafed thru his banking book. Plain and simple, I just don't like the guy! Simple as that.

Grady, well I actually like Grady.... I really do! I have had the pleasure of talikng to Grady one on one a few times and you couldn't find a nicer man to talk with, especially regarding pool and one pocket. But I have had a 5 or 6 run ins with him gambling wise where he acted completely classless and to keep this clean was a real jerk off. Had a bad time with him over a lesson (long story) that left me salty. Then I had a bad run in with him over business, where once again, he was a jerk off and I have been done with him ever since. Since, he has had a dozen or more melt downs on here that just help prove my point. If I ran into Grady tomorrow I would love to spend time with him, shoot the bull, etc... Grady needs to do his legacy a favor and teach and promote pool, it's what he is best at.....

Good call on The Saw and the nickname being from my style of stroke... When I first started playing I had a real loopy, god awful stroke (imagine a mentally challenged Efren) and someone started calling me "Buzzsaw". Chris Bartram quickly started calling me "The Saw" or "Saw". It stuck! Bartram hasn't called me anything but Saw for 15+ years. I can't remember him saying my real name in that whole time, lol.... I got rid of the pump stroke a long time ago, best thing I ever did for my game. Still have slight hint of it but very little.

Thanks,
Kirk

 

[Eddie Robin]

Seems I'm out of "imperfect" W1P books but can save on a damaged SMS

Well Eddie, big thanks to you for WOP and SM&S!!! The two best books ever written on pool. My WOP is MIA and I dearly miss it, a buddy loaned me SM&S and I am soaking all of that knowledge up now. Great stuff in there.... Thanks to all of the contributors as well, including Grady......

I want you and the other posters here to know that I am not dogging Grady and Freddie for no reason. First, I have been around Freddie a couple of times, read his posts here, and leafed thru his banking book. Plain and simple, I just don't like the guy! Simple as that.

Grady, well I actually like Grady.... I really do! I have had the pleasure of talikng to Grady one on one a few times and you couldn't find a nicer man to talk with, especially regarding pool and one pocket. But I have had a 5 or 6 run ins with him gambling wise where he acted completely classless and to keep this clean was a real jerk off. Had a bad time with him over a lesson (long story) that left me salty. Then I had a bad run in with him over business, where once again, he was a jerk off and I have been done with him ever since. Since, he has had a dozen or more melt downs on here that just help prove my point. If I ran into Grady tomorrow I would love to spend time with him, shoot the bull, etc... Grady needs to do his legacy a favor and teach and promote pool, it's what he is best at.....

Good call on The Saw and the nickname being from my style of stroke... When I first started playing I had a real loopy, god awful stroke (imagine a mentally challenged Efren) and someone started calling me "Buzzsaw". Chris Bartram quickly started calling me "The Saw" or "Saw". It stuck! Bartram hasn't called me anything but Saw for 15+ years. I can't remember him saying my real name in that whole time, lol.... I got rid of the pump stroke a long time ago, best thing I ever did for my game. Still have slight hint of it but very little.

Thanks,
Kirk

Hi Kirk,

Seems I'm now fully out of "imperfect" WINNING ONE-POCKET books (W1P) but you can save $43 off the $163 price on either of two almost identically damaged SHOT, MOVES, & STRATEGIES (SMS) books and I'll pass on any S&H and insurance charges. They would be perfectly mint if not for damaged covering material on the outside of back cover. If interested, contact me via email to er89121@aol.com Got PayPal?

The damaged spots actually don't look bad now because I've touched them up with an almost perfectly matched color acrylic hobby paint but I'll leave the $43 discount as is.

Eddie Robin

 

[Eddie Robin]

Choice-of-shot methodology would end all such debates if

For "The Saw,"

Third, and most importantly, since this will concern intended subject-matter of this thread; from not understanding why so much fuss over this particular shot, I decided to provide a way of looking at this shot that may simplify it somewhat further for some of our members.

Both shot options (bank and cut-shot) provide an opportunity to either score or place a ball right by the shooter's pocket. In all billiard games (snooker, 3-cushion, pool) it helps to think in terms of percentages on all shots and safety moves. For example, you may figure your chances are 40% in pocketing the ball on the 2-cushion bank and 58% in leaving it quite close to your pocket but not making it. Those percentages should be compared to your estimates on cutting the ball which, for example, might be 33% and 62%. Depending on your abilities, one of those options may obviously provide the greatest chance for success (for you!). The cut-shot would be the obvious choice if your percentages were as given here.

One more point on this. Assuming you can execute pretty good, should those percentages be equal or even almost equal in your case, cutting the ball then must be the right shot for you because of how the score dictates the leaving of balls uptable. (Gotta be real careful now that I've learned how "Pittsburgh Billy" or "San Jose Dick" might be watching us.)

To be absolutely sure you guys get my point, I personally just might have actually gone for the 2-cushion bank, depending on the size of table and pockets and even how how I felt, because straight-shooting was my weakness for a professional-level player and knowledge of cushions was probably my greatest strength at the time.

I'll probably peek in from time-to-time but don't expect replies for quite awhile.

Once again thanks to "Saw" for his kind words; you must have somehow known they would help and obviously wanted to accomplish just that.

For greater understanding between us all; keep in mind how one cannot hate those that we understand (hey, that was a good one!). (You may want to try understanding someone you hate just to see if that hate doesn't quickly lessen.)

Eddie Robin[/COLOR]

Hi again you guys (and gals?); getting another look at that gal in the T-shirt, the one talking about women in competition, I think it was, is probably the main reason for my continually logging back on to AZBs. Hope they don't get her on that other forum! I'd think we should be able to keep some thingss to ourselves!

Can't seem to fully stay away, for, while working on other matters of great importance, such as the solving of the middle-east problems for one, thingss you guys may need and want keep coming to mind; see how much I care? I also wonder if some of you need any help in fully recognizing the value of my last post on this thread in particular. And so this additive.

I've provided a method in my previous thread; a choice-of-shot method. You may not have realized that this choice-of-shot methodology would end all debates re shot selection (in any billiard discipline) if it was properly applied of course, and if you were first made aware of the best of available options. Proper application of my method will of course take training, discipline, practice, and experience.

Please excuse the Redundancy , but, I'd like to feel confident that the above was well understood. Use of my choice-of-shot method will only provide the best way to find the right choice for your particular level of play and abilities of those options you can see. You obviously can't compare options with others that you can't find.

As for the method used for the finding of shot options you would not otherwise be able to notice you will just have to wait for whichever of my intended books will cover that particular subject. There would be little reason to ever buy any of my books if I just kept going on like this and then how will I get by on just my small social security checks. Must admit to my getting a large number of free lunches from many of my admiring fans whenever they get to Las Vegas.

You may not fully realize the value of what I've provided for you here until after some practice and experience with it. It certainly took me quite awhile to get it down to point of speedily using it for shot selection while in competition as well (fast enough to use it on every single shot). But who know how many geniuses we may have among you.

Wonder just how much of my work will be copied and pasted in our competing forum? They just might feel the need to do so. Especially if I were one day somehow able to find the time keep this up.

I'm late, I'm late, for a very important date, etc!

Egotistically and wonderfully yours, Eddie Robin

 

[CreeDo]

Well, this thread certainly turned into a popcorn-intensive clusterfu...

Eddie, I hate to say it, but... You were kind of a jerk to Neil :/

Enough that I feel like saying something about it anyway. I defended you publicly before so I kind of feel I should say this publicly too (if nothing else then for Neil's benefit).

Yes, he was wrong. Yes, you were right to correct what he said. The issue here is mostly tone. There are ways to correct people without making huge waves, then there are ways that will leave them feeling small and put them on the defensive.

I think what really struck me is that Neil admitted he was wrong, you handled it nicely at first by thanking him for getting onto a table and trying the shot... Then you kind of wandered close to the border between 'empathetic' and 'patronizing' when you related an experience you had being dead wrong about something. Sort of like "hey, don't feel too bad about being dead wrong and getting corrected by me. I've been there."

It could have ended there but when you went on to say "I'd be somewhat embarrased about those words after arguing against one who obviously knows so much more than you about the game. [...] You just might want to now say, "uncle."

That was over the line. You'd already shown him the error of his ways and gotten him to admit to being wrong. What was the point of going out of your way to rub it in? It definitely has the flavor of kicking the guy while he's down. To his credit, he kept is composure pretty well until you said that.

You make it sound like he should be deeply ashamed of being wrong, and possibly commit seppuku right then and there (perhaps after writing a formal letter of apology for having the nerve to debate you). And the "uncle" bit... that's just plain shìt-talking.

Neil wrote a lengthy note that effectively said "we try to get along here, and it's ok if non-AAA players (Neil included) want to chime and try to teach". He also pointed out that the tone of your posts came across as arrogant. (Like "I'm here now, don't pay attention to what anyone but me has to say. I'm here to save you all from all the misinformation that you have all been recieving."). For the record, he's got a point. That arrogant vibe IS there, it's not just Neil being sensitive.

He then apologized for some reason and offered to drop hostilities. Your response seems to reject the offer.

--

If I could do some patronizing of my own here... I recognize something in your posts eddie. It reminds me of me. I started posting when there were only BBSes and the web was fairly unknown (not that long ago, but it feels that way). I moved on to usenet newsgroups and then web forums. In that time I went through some posting phases.

One of them was to reply to anything that seemed even remotely, arguably incorrect on a subject I felt like an expert on. I'd pick the offending post apart piece by piece, going as far as to quote even partial sentences and then writing lengthy, carefully edited replies to shoot down every speck of wrongness. My articulate replies would fill an entire page with text (even without the benefit of quotes). If this post looks long to you, the 'old me' would have quoted and responded to every line of your argument with neil, even if it meant copying and pasting from 50 separate posts.

I found some weird joy in getting into lengthy debates (and even plain old flamefests) with people. But over time I realized a lot of people passed over my posts for sheer length, and others because even spectacting that level of combativeness made them weary.

I think (and hope) you are experiencing a similar phase now, and that it'll pass.

 

[Eddie Robin]

Lets go about this in a sensible way; not opinion vs. opinion.

Well, this thread certainly turned into a popcorn-intensive clusterfu...

Eddie, I hate to say it, but... You were kind of a jerk to Neil :/

CreeDo, I hate to say it but... the style of this quote of yours seems so similar to that of Neil's. So accusative yet difficult to reply to because of so many interpretations in place of facts. Hope this quote of your is not a hit-and-run tactic for that would be quite unfair of you. Hope you intend to go over the situation with me for everybody to read and decide for themselves.

Unbelievable! I would have thought this was all so obvious. Anyway, I've no choice, I was trying to pull back from all this nonsense but now must continue once again. Why, because I don't like to see the wrong guys win, whether or not I'm part of the fray. Anybody else in my position would have just left this forum and let you guys continue as you were. I need this BS like I need a hole-in-the head.

This is how it started. Neil explained a 33% chance of a scratch on a shot that a good player would never make and he advised others to leave that shot alone. Possibly the best possible shot on the table, and he advised others that are wanting to learn to leave that particular option alone! This was more than just a guy being wrong, or very wrong, he was off the chart and I tried to correct while being easy on him and you knew that. I just wanted to remind you as to how this started.

Do you think Neil's later explanation as to how he really knew better was the truth? What about the other explanation re how he had actually meant that the cut-shot was a dangerous shot only for weak players? Did you believe that one also? His continued comments re how I started the attacks. No reply needed on that one because I had already proved that one upon pasting the earliest attack, and it was his!. Was I expected to just turn the other cheek and allow him to wiggle out of embarrassment through deception? I actually ignored his first attack or didn't you notice that? I didn't want him embarrassed but I just couldn't stand the deceit any longer!

I'd think this forum totally worthless if you had a bunch of members doing such things. Sure an average or below average one-pocket player could have scratched but not a really good player. When I was explaining how there's no scratch on the shot, I didn't mean to be taken wrong; I'd meant for a good player, not a weak one. sure my wording was faulty but how does that compare with what he's been doing?

I assumed that it was expected to show right shots, not weaker ones. Only time one shows what's good for a weak player he must mentuion that this is not for a good player. How well do you think my Shots, Moves, & Strategies book would have gone over had the solutions all been for weak instead of good players? The book would be ridiculed! If the book showed shots for weak players it certainly better make that point clear or it would laughed right out of print! If we want to see what weaker players do we'd have to show several options for several different levels of play.

Now I'll not reply to all your accusations now. I want to go about this in a senssible way; not your opinion vs. my opinion.

Here's a way to clarify this mess of BS if you are truly willing to do this in a fair and logical way. You've just accused me of being unfair to Neil. So, in defense I'm now requesting that you list in sequence of time whatever I've written that you consider unfair or wrong in any way. Isn't that a reasonable request? Please provide my exact words with name of source thread and post number, sentence and/or paragraph after sentence and/or paragraph, and, if you like, follow them with your opinions or interpretations of them. Just be sure to list them in sequence of time. If you are really trying to do the right thing, and, for all I know, you very well may be doing so that's where I suspect you've gone wrong. They must be in sequence of time.

I will reply to each with my own list using Neil's exact words in sequence with source thread name and post number. Then, if you like, you can reply to my replies. Fair enough? I'd think, if done right, this procedure will clarify things quite a bit. I have a question though; how much space are we allowed on AZB quotes? Is there a limit in characters that we can use in these quotes?

Eddie Robin

PS: I'm not sharp on computer and just learning how to get around this forum, and so, "can't be done" might be your reply to the following question: The style of this quote is so similar to Neil's that I want to ask, are you Neil as well as CreeDo by any chance? Or has he been making suggestions for this quote of yours?