One pocket shot what do you do?

[AJO]

Apparently I'm reading Eddie differently. I'm sorry you two are having this bizarre squabble, but I for one am very glad that Eddie Robin is posting his opinions.

Maybe I'm just comparing his defensive posting to Fast Larry. But, so far, I don't have any problems with Eddie's posting.

Fred

I agree. Eddie posting and freely offering his knowledge is a great opportunity for players trying to improve their game.

I've known Eddie for a while now and have personal experience in pool instruction with him. Eddie can come off a little harsh sometimes, even egotistical. But, if a person is willing to let go of preconceived ideas and things they've been taught in the past (which may be inaccurate), much can be learned from him.

He's a perfectionist, and from what I can tell, has studied the games of pool and billiards at a much greater level of detail than most.

Amber

Oh yeah...apparently he could also play a little!

 

[dabarbr]

I agree. Eddie posting and freely offering his knowledge is a great opportunity for players trying to improve their game.

I've known Eddie for a while now and have personal experience in pool instruction with him. Eddie can come off a little harsh sometimes, even egotistical. But, if a person is willing to let go of preconceived ideas and things they've been taught in the past (which may be inaccurate), much can be learned from him.

He's a perfectionist, and from what I can tell, has studied the games of pool and billiards at a much greater level of detail than most.

Amber

Oh yeah...apparently he could also play a little!

Personally I think he needs to choose his thoughts more carefully and show some sensitivity in regards to members like Neil who is a valued and knowledgeable contributor to this forum. I have always found his posts to be informative to all level of players.

 

[12squared]

The discussion between Eddie & Neil is the beauty of one-pocket. I do not believe there is any ONE right shot in any situation; it depends on the score and your skill level/knowledge.

What Neil was saying was that for him, the percentages were not there to try to cut the 13 because of the possibility of the scratch, so he decided it was best to shoot the two railer. How he said it was of no consequence.

Eddie said basically the same thing but in a different way - suggesting that Eddie Taylor would play a different shot (2-rail bank) than Blackie (cut). The only thing is Eddie got a little righteous in how he responded to Neil's discussion on his choice of shot and why (Neil stated what he would do in this situation, that would win the game for him more times then the other options).

Play the shot you feel most comfortable playing, which you feel you can execute the best that would give you the best percentage to win the game. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream. It was actually entertaining until Eddie started accusing Neil of things that just aren't true.

The game is great, sometimes these threads are not so much. But we all learn in the end. I encourage both Neil and Eddie to continue posting their thoughts. They both have so much to offer.

Dave

 

[Deadon]

Actually, I said I would shoot the 13, long before posted by Eddie or anyone else. The other part of my post was directed to the OP based on his abilities.

I believe Eddie took issue with the certainty with which Neil said the shot was a desperate alternative. Which he, Neil, found out was not true for better players. That certainty with which Neil based his opinion on, somehow offened Eddie's idea of an open mind and Eddie just let him know it instead of letting it go. Everyone should just learn to listen to and consider other opinions, and each persons right to have them. JMHO.

 

[Eddie Robin]

Actually, I said I would shoot the 13, long before posted by Eddie or anyone else. The other part of my post was directed to the OP based on his abilities.

I believe Eddie took issue with the certainty with which Neil said the shot was a desperate alternative. Which he, Neil, found out was not true for better players. That certainty with which Neil based his opinion on, somehow offened Eddie's idea of an open mind and Eddie just let him know it instead of letting it go. Everyone should just learn to listen to and consider other opinions, and each persons right to have them. JMHO.

You have not made any sense at all here. You really think I should have ignored the wrong advice Neil was giving to so many out there? Those many others happen to be more important than the one person who really doesn't know enough to be teaching anyone other than a complete beginner.

What was most important here was not Neil or myself; it was that a person advising so many others that are wanting to learn doesn't really know very much himself. Don't ya think I knew I was taking a risk of having people turn against me? I ain't no dummy! I cared more about doing what was right. I'm new here and Neil probably has quite a few friends from his many previous posts and communications. So what? That should not have anything to do with what's right and what's wrong

Sure, I originally felt bad for his extremely wrong advice and even tried to make it easy for him by explaining how I've done something quite similar years earlier. But to ignore people providing many others with bad advice is wrong and should not be ignored. Teaching obviously wrong things on this forum will cause untold damage to others. If you really cared about letting Neil heal up a bit, you shouldn't have inferred I was wrong to correct what he wrote.

It a matter of what is most important. Anybody who can play well should have known immediately that the scratch on that 13-ball was impossible if the ball was pocketed with make speed. Anybody. Outrageous that you should think I shouldn't have done anything about it. I did because I care. Anybody who would just back off and not see to it that such nonsense was corrected should be scolded, You seem to be scolding the one who cared enough to do something.

One of the main things that got me motivated to start publishing books to help others learn were the great many people I've come across over the years that were misleading others who were desperately wanting to play a better game of pool. I'd walk by a table and hear advice that would ensure someone will never improve very much and feel terrible about it but frustrated because I couldn't interrupt the lesson between complete strangers.

Sure I feel badly about Neil being embarrassed and somewhat exposed for his ignorance, but still believe I'm right in placing the far greater importance on the many who want to learn properly. many people here at AZBilliards want to learn, not be misled by someone playing the part of an expert when quite obviously is not! I will not refrain from correcting a post that is going to mislead a great many others. What if everybody did that? Stroking others is not what this forum should be about. It should be about helping each other to attain goals, to play better, and play smarter so they can better enjoy the game they love.

For whatever that was worth,

Eddie Robin

 

[pvc lou]

You have not made any sense at all here. You really think I should have ignored the wrong advice Neil was giving to so many out there? Those many others happen to be more important than the one person who really doesn't know enough to be teaching anyone other than a complete beginner.

What was most important here was not Neil or myself; it was that a person advising so many others that are wanting to learn doesn't really know very much himself. Don't ya think I knew I was taking a risk of having people turn against me? I ain't no dummy! I cared more about doing what was right. I'm new here and Neil probably has quite a few friends from his many previous posts and communications. So what? That should not have anything to do with what's right and what's wrong

Sure, I originally felt bad for his extremely wrong advice and even tried to make it easy for him by explaining how I've done something quite similar years earlier. But to ignore people providing many others with bad advice is wrong and should not be ignored. Teaching obviously wrong things on this forum will cause untold damage to others. If you really cared about letting Neil heal up a bit, you shouldn't have inferred I was wrong to correct what he wrote.

It a matter of what is most important. Anybody who can play well should have known immediately that the scratch on that 13-ball was impossible if the ball was pocketed with make speed. Anybody. Outrageous that you should think I shouldn't have done anything about it. I did because I care. Anybody who would just back off and not see to it that such nonsense was corrected should be scolded, You seem to be scolding the one who cared enough to do something.

One of the main things that got me motivated to start publishing books to help others learn were the great many people I've come across over the years that were misleading others who were desperately wanting to play a better game of pool. I'd walk by a table and hear advice that would ensure someone will never improve very much and feel terrible about it but frustrated because I couldn't interrupt the lesson between complete strangers.

Sure I feel badly about Neil being embarrassed and somewhat exposed for his ignorance, but still believe I'm right in placing the far greater importance on the many who want to learn properly. many people here at AZBilliards want to learn, not be misled by someone playing the part of an expert when quite obviously is not! I will not refrain from correcting a post that is going to mislead a great many others. What if everybody did that? Stroking others is not what this forum should be about. It should be about helping each other to attain goals, to play better, and play smarter so they can better enjoy the game they love.

For whatever that was worth,

Eddie Robin

I see that happening too, Eddie. You know what? It's not your responsibility to correct bad teachers. If the student is intelligent, he/she will be able to discern a knowledgeable player from a blowhard. So, dont worry about it. I and many, many others are still eager to read the things you have to say.

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

Dave (12squared) did a nice job of trying to smooth this thing over but I have to say, after going back and reading all of the posts, I'm a bit confused as to why Eddie reacted to Niel the way he did. I think Niel was not out of line by posting what he felt about cutting the 13. That shot can be intimidating to an average player, especially if they don't play a lot of one pocket.

I'm hoping Eddie stays and continues to post, but I think he's going to have to get a better understanding of how online forums work. Niel did not insult Mr. Robbins and did not deserve the multiple harsh posts, IMO.

Lord knows Niel and I don't agree on much... lol. Pun intended.

 

[Eddie Robin]

As long as I'm a member of AZB I promise to correct anything I know is wrong

[/QUOTE]

The discussion between Eddie & Neil is the beauty of one-pocket. I do not believe there is any ONE right shot in any situation; it depends on the score and your skill level/knowledge.

Don't tell me that you are going to continue on where Neil left off? Okay, guess I'll have to along with this as well. It so happens you are quite wrong. There is often only one right shot in one-pocket. I could provide a great many, but will mention one that even you and Neil will have to agree with; how about a clear shot at game-ball hanging in your pocket? Do you want few more obvious right shots?

What Neil was saying was that for him, the percentages were not there to try to cut the 13 because of the possibility of the scratch,

Are you actually saying he was right about his fear about the non-existent scratch? What the hell are you talking about? And can you explain why he would think there was a scratch when it wasn't even close to a scratch shot? Having quit pool for the most part back in 1965, and having not hit a ball in a great many years, I'll nevertheless bet whatever you want that I won't scratch on that shot once in a hundred tries!

so he decided it was best to shoot the two railer.

Why would you mention that? I never inferred there was anything wrong with his choice of the two-railer.

How he said it was of no consequence.

But how he said it was of great importance. Here are his words for the umpteenth time; please read them as many times as necessary until you fully understand.

"Cutting the 13 is a desperation move. And you are not in a desperate situation. So, it would be foolish to try and cut it. Even if you can cut it in 2 out of 3 times, that one time you scratch makes it not worth it."

What is there to defend? Don't you see that he's actually telling others how they would be foolish to shoot a shot because of a scratch that would occur around 33% of the time when in reality, the scratch is impossible when shooting the shot with make speed, as anybody who can play well enough to advise others should have known. How can you even attempt to defend this? Have you not understood anything that's been written in all these responses?

Eddie said basically the same thing but in a different way - suggesting that Eddie Taylor would play a different shot (2-rail bank) than Blackie (cut).

But I didn't say basically the same thing! He was dead against the cut and I considered it one of the two best options. You are twisting things. And why are you mentioning those particular statements re Taylor and Blackie? You couldn't possibly disagree with them as well could you?

The only thing is Eddie got a little righteous in how he responded to Neil's discussion on his choice of shot and why (Neil stated what he would do in this situation, that would win the game for him more times then the other options).

I certainly did not get righteous about his choice of shot. His choice of shot was the two-cushion bank which happens to be one of the two shots I'd recommended. I hope you realize that you are making far too many mistakes in this post.

Anyway, it is so nice of you to let us all know what Neil really meant and what really happened and so on. What gobbledegook! Anyone who had read the various replies knew what happened before you even decided to make this post. What they already know, despite your attempts to rewrite the story, is that I'd responded to his very bad advice and very wrong statement. I would not have responded at all if he didn't write those silly things.

Play the shot you feel most comfortable playing, which you feel you can execute the best that would give you the best percentage to win the game. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream.

Comfortable playing, best percentage and why they make chocolate and vanilla? In regards to the above two sentences, are you inferring that I'm supposed to have written anything to the contrary? Did I ever infer one should play a shot with which he is uncomfortable? Or infer anyone should shoot a shot that would not give you the best possible percentage to win? Or that I'm not in favor of either chocolate or vanilla? Are you inferring that I was actually against those three things? You could probably make it big as a lawyer.COLOR]

It was actually entertaining until Eddie started accusing Neil of things that just aren't true.
That would be quite wrong of me if it happened to be true. By the way, I'm right here and now accusing you of attempting to mislead others at to how this all went down. So much interpretation! I'm getting awful fed up with this nonsense. By the way, I will list the things Neil said about me in my next reply.

The game is great, sometimes these threads are not so much. But we all learn in the end. I encourage both Neil and Eddie to continue posting their thoughts. They both have so much to offer.

What BS! You guys seem to be taking turns at me after I came here with good intentions to help others by contributing what I have to offer to AZBilliards members. Guess I have to differ with you once again. If you must make such suggestions for Neil and myself, which you don't have any business doing since the poor guy wanted this to end already, I'd suggest you ask Neil to be a bit more careful about misleading others with nonsense and I'd have suggested to Eddie Robin (that be me) that most of AZBilliards members probably appreciate the fact that I'm willing to stand up to all this harrassment and be sticking my neck out in an effort to help them.

You know, I'm not actually very good at writing despite being an author; I need proofreader and editor. However, you guys actually make me look good because your explanations and/or arguments are all so faulty. Are you simply No. 4 in a long line waiting to get a shot at me?Whose next? I think I'm getting better at this.

Dave

Eddie robin

 

[Eddie Robin]

I hope that some of you will read my posts re Neil in sequence

Personally I think he needs to choose his thoughts more carefully and show some sensitivity in regards to members like Neil who is a valued and knowledgeable contributor to this forum. I have always found his posts to be informative to all level of players.

Sensitivity? I started off being as kind as possible to Neil, especially when compared with a great many other posts I've read on this forum. Some reading how I've been mean to Neil might actually believe it if they don't read my posts in sequence for them selves. Would anybody who really believes what these various posts are saying about how I may have been insensitive, mean, or tough on Neil, please, please, please, read each of my posts in sequence re Neils opinions and decide for yourselves. please don't let others decide for you. Then you will understand what is really happening here.

What did I write, before I, myself was attacked by Neil, that would compare it to the guy who inferred something about how whoever would be concerned about the scratch must have been drunk, or, even better yet, to what Neil, himself, wrote about me as follows:

Well, Eddie, you are right. You should quit posting here. If you can't handle what I said, you sure aren't going to handle what others will say in the future. I'm done with this stupid childish behavior. Go think what you want to. You obviously will anyway. You really should try and grow up some though. Someone didn't bow down to the almighty, all- knowing Eddie Robin, so you will go on and on trying to discredit them. Go fly a kite. My reputation is what it is on here, and you aren't going to change that. I'm done responding to you. As far as my level of play, you don't know what you don't know, so quite making an ass of yourself.

I don't deserve this type of treatment!

Eddie Robin

 

[Eddie Robin]

Hope most members will read the various posts for themselves

Dave (12squared) did a nice job of trying to smooth this thing over but I have to say, after going back and reading all of the posts, I'm a bit confused as to why Eddie reacted to Niel the way he did.

I think Niel was not out of line by posting what he felt about cutting the 13. That shot can be intimidating to an average player, especially if they don't play a lot of one pocket.

I'm hoping Eddie stays and continues to post, but I think he's going to have to get a better understanding of how online forums work. Niel did not insult Mr. Robbins and did not deserve the multiple harsh posts, IMO.

Lord knows Niel and I don't agree on much... lol. Pun intended.

I'm a bit confused as to why Eddie reacted to Niel the way he did.

You are making this up. Please paste it right here whatever you are referring to so people can decide for themselves. I didn't react badly at all. Again, I dare you to paste it in a post so it can be defendable.

I think Niel was not out of line by posting what he felt about cutting the 13. That shot can be intimidating to an average player, especially if they don't play a lot of one pocket.

You know as well as I that I was only against his explanations re a scratch that didn't even exist. He was misleading others as to how it was foolish to shoot a shot that happened to be one of the two best choices for anyone that can play the game.

I'm hoping Eddie stays and continues to post, but I think he's going to have to get a better understanding of how online forums work. Niel did not insult Mr. Robbins and did not deserve the multiple harsh posts,

This is an outrage. Ridiculous, The post were not at all harsh and, if anyone should be scolded, read what neil said about me. I'll paste it right here for people to read it for themselves.

Well, Eddie, you are right. You should quit posting here. If you can't handle what I said, you sure aren't going to handle what others will say in the future. I'm done with this stupid childish behavior. Go think what you want to. You obviously will anyway. You really should try and grow up some though. Someone didn't bow down to the almighty, all- knowing Eddie Robin, so you will go on and on trying to discredit them. Go fly a kite. My reputation is what it is on here, and you aren't going to change that. I'm done responding to you. As far as my level of play, you don't know what you don't know, so quite making an ass of yourself.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I'm a bit confused as to why Eddie reacted to Niel the way he did.

You are making this up. Please paste it right here whatever you are referring to so people can decide for themselves. I didn't react badly at all. Again, I dare you to paste it in a post so it can be defendable.

I think Niel was not out of line by posting what he felt about cutting the 13. That shot can be intimidating to an average player, especially if they don't play a lot of one pocket.

You know as well as I that I was only against his explanations re a scratch that didn't even exist. He was misleading others as to how it was foolish to shoot a shot that happened to be one of the two best choices for anyone that can play the game.

I'm hoping Eddie stays and continues to post, but I think he's going to have to get a better understanding of how online forums work. Niel did not insult Mr. Robbins and did not deserve the multiple harsh posts,

This is an outrage. Ridiculous, The post were not at all harsh and, if anyone should be scolded, read what neil said about me. I'll paste it right here for people to read it for themselves.

Well, Eddie, you are right. You should quit posting here. If you can't handle what I said, you sure aren't going to handle what others will say in the future. I'm done with this stupid childish behavior. Go think what you want to. You obviously will anyway. You really should try and grow up some though. Someone didn't bow down to the almighty, all- knowing Eddie Robin, so you will go on and on trying to discredit them. Go fly a kite. My reputation is what it is on here, and you aren't going to change that. I'm done responding to you. As far as my level of play, you don't know what you don't know, so quite making an ass of yourself.

i hope you stick around eddie. i dig hearing experienced players opinions on shots

 

[Eddie Robin]

I see that happening too, Eddie. You know what? It's not your responsibility to correct bad teachers. If the student is intelligent, he/she will be able to discern a knowledgeable player from a blowhard. So, dont worry about it. I and many, many others are still eager to read the things you have to say.

john,

I very strongly disagree with your opinion and hope you look at this situation again for you may then change your mind. As AZBilliards members we should take some responsibility for our fellow members and care about posts that damage the chances of many others to learn and improve their play. That should be what this is all about. We should want to help other members improve their level of play with suggestions, advice, and yes, even corrections.

I do appreciate your comment re how you are eager to read the things I have to say.

for the playing of a better game,

Eddie robin

 

[Eddie Robin]

Personally I think he needs to choose his thoughts more carefully and show some sensitivity in regards to members like Neil who is a valued and knowledgeable contributor to this forum. I have always found his posts to be informative to all level of players.

Please find anything I've ever written against Neil; anything at all that you consider insensitive, and please paste it here so i can defend myself. That would be the right thing to do instead of insinuations about things I've written that none of us can read here in your post. PASTE IT HERE SO WE CAN ALL SEE WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO.

I also suggest you compare it with the following quote from Neil about me. If anyone should be admonished it should be Neil AND the rest of you guys for ganging up on me for the very wrongest of reasons.

This is very definitely not what I'd call fair play.

Well, Eddie, you are right. You should quit posting here. If you can't handle what I said, you sure aren't going to handle what others will say in the future. I'm done with this stupid childish behavior. Go think what you want to. You obviously will anyway. You really should try and grow up some though. Someone didn't bow down to the almighty, all- knowing Eddie Robin, so you will go on and on trying to discredit them. Go fly a kite. My reputation is what it is on here, and you aren't going to change that. I'm done responding to you. As far as my level of play, you don't know what you don't know, so quite making an ass of yourself.

 

[Eddie Robin]

Actually, I said I would shoot the 13, long before posted by Eddie or anyone else. The other part of my post was directed to the OP based on his abilities.

I believe Eddie took issue with the certainty with which Neil said the shot was a desperate alternative. Which he, Neil, found out was not true for better players. That certainty with which Neil based his opinion on, somehow offened Eddie's idea of an open mind and Eddie just let him know it instead of letting it go. Everyone should just learn to listen to and consider other opinions, and each persons right to have them. JMHO.

This Eddie Robin replying to your mention of this "squabble" between neil and myself. I was trying quite hard not to hurt Neil's feelings any more than necessary, while at the same time accomplish what I happen to consider the more important task of making sure Neil's quite faulty advice was not taken seriously by others wanting to learn.

In re to Neil's advice re a scratch that was almost impossible for even weak players to make, how does anything that I have written in re to Neil's errors even compare with what you yourself had posted as follows:

“DeadOn: Anyone that scratches on that shot, is either drunk or should not be playing 1p.” Mike

Neil must be steaming because it seems that by my continual replies to all these other guys ganging up on me, I have to keep bringing up what Neil had written and he really wanted to end this thing. What can I do about it? I have to defend myself against all odds as best I can.

Eddie Robin

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[Eddie Robin]

QUOTE]

Eddie, all those quotes are yours. And I agree with the last one. Speaking of which, pick one of the three above it and just go with that one.

What do you mean by pick one? I can't even see them while in this box. I'm not used to how these things work and don't believe I can see ... maybe after I select "preview." Nope, selected preview and still can't see the options you refer me to.

Why pick something? Shouldn't one be made to stand by everything they've said and done and let the chips fall where they may? Why don't you pick one, two, or as many of whatever as you wish and just show me where I've treated you even half as bad as you and others here have treated me? You seem to have many friends but might does not make right. I don't back off when I'm in the right. I chellenge you to list the wrong things I've said and put them against the wrong things you've said. Or is that too fair for you to agree with?

Eddie, one of the requirements of a good teacher is communication. You may have the knowledge, but that is only a part of helping others. Even one that has recieved lessons from you said that you are harsh. And, I think he was trying to be kind. So, what kind of teacher does that make you?

You must be talking about the lady I'd once helped long distance; never actually met her. Anyway, I've helped hundreds over the phone over the years; wonder where they all are now? I'm sure they would all think I was "tough" on them. I take teaching and learning pool or billiards quite seriously. Anyway, I've spent far more time with her than most, but so what if she thinks I'm harsh (believe she was referring to my being quite stern at times). If I were her I'd probably of called me very tough as well; I'm definitely not easy on studentss when they do wrong.

So if somebody says a bad thing about me that makes me bad? Does that even make it true? Just like you making out that I'm the one that started up with you doesn't mean it is true. Anybody reading the posts from the very beginning will see that I've done nothing that deserves admonishment. Even 5, 10, or 20 people saying I've done wrong doesn't make it true. I'd like to see even just one of your group paste a paragraph that I should be ashamed of, especially compared to what you've written.

YOU are the one that started this shenanagins, not me. I made a post, that I later clarified and corrected. But, because I corrected it, you felt some sick need to try and denigrate me.

"Sick need to try to denigrate you"? Can you others reading this garbage understand who is doing what to who? Just show me the words I'd used. How many posts have gone by already without anyone showing me where I screwed up and simply keep inferring, innuendos, and whatever. I find that this whole thing quite strange.

You are very wrong in thinking that I am ashamed of anything I posted, or trying to hide, ect. I warned you that this forum can be tough, which you blasted me for also, then you feel the need to blast others for saying you were wrong.

Show me the words. Paste it here in a post for all to see. That shouldn't be a problem if such "blasting" has really been done.

Now, you just won't let this thread die, twisting things to try and make yourself look better. (as per the above quotes) I think you are the one that is embarrased, I'm sure not.

Which of the above quotes was wrong, if any? Wish I could see them from this "quote" box view.

I, for one, would like the input of your knowldege on this forum. But, not if you are going to act like this all the time.

If I recall correctly, you once suggested others use an "ignore button" on me. Is there really such a thing? And if so, why don't you just use it? I've lost interest in wanting to help you.

Just realize that not everyone is always going to agree with what you say. And, you aren't always right.

Wouldn't this go for you as well? And possibly for everyone else on planet Earth?

This is a DISCUSSION forum. That means that people can have differing viewpoints on things.

So? Discuss away! All I have in mind is pointing it out when you mislead others as to how to play better. That doesn't stop you from posting whatever you want. Same goes for me; you don't agree with what move i prefer, just point it out. I wouldn't mind that at all. Why should you?
I do not like it when people mislead others who are so much wanting to learn how to play a better game and so I point it out.

Just because I may make a mistake once in a while doesn't mean that I'm an idiot and shouldn't teach anyone anything.

An idiot is a very harsh word that wouldn't fit you at all which is why I've never used it on you. Are you insinuating I'd called you an idiot? To tell you the truth, you just don't know much about one-pocket is all I can say with any degree of confidence. Actually, from believing there was a thirty-three percent chance of a scratch on that one shot, I'd actually have to say you don't know much about pool in general. Am I wrong? You can disagree if you like. It is simply my opinion.

And, if you feel that it does, as you have stated, then you should stop teaching also. (see the above quotes) You yourself don't seem sure if it is a possible scratch or not.

Wow! I've known from the very beginning that there was no chance of a scratch and even pleaded for anyone who didn't know better to just try the shot and see for themselves. Anyone who doubts this please read the original posts re this subject.

Sure, if you make it you don't scratch. But not everyone is going to make it.

Even after shooting the shot with make speed you still think there's a possible scratch? Hopefully you've brought that possibility down somewhat from the previous 33%. If you use make speed you wouldn't be able to scratch even if you tried, with the exception of using draw on the shot instead of follow; but that wouldn't be done by anybody who can play even a little bit.

You are teaching to go for the shot because at times you say it's impossible to scratch. That is just not true. And, as you have also stated, it is very possible to scratch off it if you miss the shot.

I doubt that I'd ever said there was a scratch on the shot but may have acted like it was just possible just to make things a little easier on you; I was really trying not to make you seem any more wrong than you already were! And I never said that was the shot because there were two approximately equally good options. Prove it. Paste it here for all to see! It cannot be done unless one purposely uses draw instead of follow or purposely hits the ball too hard.

Now, if you want to say that everyone should shoot that shot because that is what the top players would shoot, (and you have waivered in your stance on that throughout this thread too), then, I would have to say you are wrong.

I've not said that and you know it as does anyone who reads the original threads. There you go putting words in my mouth again. The two shots from very beginning were the 2-cushion bank and the cut shot, period! Stop trying to change what happened because the truth of what really was written by the both of us goes against you, not me.

You can't go by just what the top players would do, as you know.

Some situations may provide various shots where one might be best for the greatest, another for an average pro, another for a bank-pool player, another for a straight shooter, and so on. However, since there are so many at so many different levels, I tend to simply show what would be best for the best plaayers and let other players decide what's best for them. If I was, for some reason, wanting to indicate that a specific shot choice was best for an average or below average player I would very, very definitely explain that it was for them for I certainly don't want to mislead anyone.

If that were the case, just show video clips of Efren, and there you have it. Anything else that someone else does is wrong.

Another silly statement.

We all know that would be ludicrous. So, quit trying to blast someone for pointing out something different than what you have.

Are you considering the term "blasting" to be another word for "correcting" by any chance? If not, show me the "blasting" already instead of just implying that it was done.

It doesn't do you or the forum any good. Trying to run me down to make yourself look better isn't working, try a different method. And neither is calling the other posters names.

Someone reading this might actually believe that I've purposely tried to run you down or that I've called you names. Neither is true and, I'll repeat once again, that anybody who simply reads the earlier posts will realize that it has been you doing those things not me. All I've done that might have hurt your feelings is a result of honest replies and defending myself.

Just post your opinion on shots, and let it rest. There's no problem with disagreeing, but try and be a little more polite when doing so.

And let it rest? Does that mean it is okay for you to post something silly and if I correct it, I may not then correct anything you say wrong after that? Is that what you call the right way?

I'm willing to continue, and continue until enough people read this thread from way back; for the more that do that very thing, the more will realize how things have been so twisted as to try to make me look like the bad guy here.

I hope you spectators realize that Neil's really not trying to reason with me. He knows that I know better. This post of his was actually for the purpose of misleading you into believing that I must have been the bad guy. I guess, after I select "submit,' I'll get another shot at seeing what options or whatever I recall seeing when I started with this reply. Hope thay are correctly worded.

For straighter shooting,
Eddie Robin

 

[cscott67]

Eddie.......

Glad to see you posting on here!! (doc from chicago, bought your books and talked on the phone with you till my battery died!) Sorry to see this turning into a fracas. I'll keep looking for you in other threads, Scott

 

[Eddie Robin]

Don't be concerned about "fracas"; such things can cause upsets

Glad to see you posting on here!! (doc from chicago, bought your books and talked on the phone with you till my battery died!) Sorry to see this turning into a fracas. I'll keep looking for you in other threads, Scott

Hi doc,

That has happened quite a few times while working with others that I don't even recall which one you were. Was it this year? Were you the one who was on his way to Los Angeles? They have a method here of sending private messages but though I know how to retrieve and reply to them I've not yet noticed how to originate them; probably real easy. I'd appreciate you refreshing my memory with a private message or an email to er89121@aol.com unless you also still have my number.

Don't be concerned about "fracas"; such things can cause upsets in many directions. If you are concerned, please read from earlier posts first to see I'm not really the bad guy here. If you have become familiar with the way these things work you'll know that there are records of all that was ever said and so the truth will eventually emerge.

for a better game,

Eddie Robin

 

[Neil]

.................

 

[Eddie Robin]

The 13-ball option once again (yes; two options there)

daphish........As others have posted, the 2-railer on the 4, and cutting the 13 in at pocket speed are both excellent shots.....The one reason to possibly favor the 2-railer here, is because of the possible scratch if you accidentally hit the 13 too full when cutting it - which, needless to say, would be a disaster.

- Ghost

Hi again Ghost,

i must have somehow skipped over this post in the past but, in reviewing posts in effort to better understand what has happened here with Neil, I see that you too have mentioned how a possible scratch off the 13-ball would be a disaster. That begs a couple of questions;

1. Have you since rolled the 13 towards the pocket at make speed to find there was no such scratch possible?

2. Was this the first mention of the "disastious scratch"? I wonder if this is what put Neil on his original "disaster scratch" viewpoint.

Members should take some responsibility for what they post for others may not realize the wrongnesses as easily as top players. Hope you see my point. Please test shots out first if not fully confident of the result. Others may be learning from you.

for a better game,

Eddie Robin

PS: Were you the one at Howard & Paulina that knew the wealthy glass guy (Glazier?) who hung up there with Bill Romain? I'd love to connect up to him for he could help authenticate a very interesting and memorable road-trip from way back when. It involved a stop off at Don Willis Room on way across to Ames' Billiards in NYC. With all the baloney being put out there nowadays, gotta try to get as many "witnesses" as possible to support stories in my intended forthcoming books.

Send me email at er89121@aol.com should you recall witnessing the time beat a guy who finally lost his book or $2 bills; if you were there, please don't "spill the beans" as yet for that one is in the last of the 3-book series on one-pocket. Keep it quiet and I'll reward ya with a comp copy of the book in which it will be found. That must be where I put the Ed Taylor betting-on-2-rail-banks story.