Yes, this is Baby Huey. Thanks for the acknowledgment. The reason I focus on defense is that when you are out of stroke, it takes some time to get your timing, aiming and stroke back. That might mean you're stuck and the best you might be able to do is break even. Don't worry about offense, it will come. Just hitting the balls and executing defense properly will keep your opponent off balance, extend the innings and put dollars in your pocket. Those dollars cure all the ailments of being out of stroke.
One Pocket Strategy Question.
- Thread starter yobagua
- Start date
Geek-boy
I think about the shots that stick out in my head. The ones I flubbed, screwed up totally or otherwise did not see and were pointed out to me later by old greasy men cackling at my inexperience while they rake me over the 1P coals.
I draw diagrams and make notes about how it feels to make that shot or to move the cue ball the way I need to. Pushing through the cue ball slowly or quickly will affect the way it gets to where its going. How much spin is applied and how fast the spin takes and how much it bites into the cloth and the rail and the object ball etc.
One Pocket loves no one. So you have to come correct or it will own you until the day they toss you in the box. You better be thinking in terms of the vector of the energy you are imparting to whitey rather than the cue tips effect on the surface of the ball.... the tip is important, but ultimately meaningless apart from its ability to deliver energy to where it needs to be in the manner you desire. Its all about the energy and the vector thereof. Sounds like geek-boy psychobabble, but its what is happening and all that matters. Once you get with the program, you will be a next level player. Once you feel this stuff happening, you are gold.
So take notes on that stuff, stuff you know you will forget if you are like me. I re-read this junk over and over again and I am surprised continually that I wrote this stuff. it helps.
I think about the shots that stick out in my head. The ones I flubbed, screwed up totally or otherwise did not see and were pointed out to me later by old greasy men cackling at my inexperience while they rake me over the 1P coals.
I draw diagrams and make notes about how it feels to make that shot or to move the cue ball the way I need to. Pushing through the cue ball slowly or quickly will affect the way it gets to where its going. How much spin is applied and how fast the spin takes and how much it bites into the cloth and the rail and the object ball etc.
One Pocket loves no one. So you have to come correct or it will own you until the day they toss you in the box. You better be thinking in terms of the vector of the energy you are imparting to whitey rather than the cue tips effect on the surface of the ball.... the tip is important, but ultimately meaningless apart from its ability to deliver energy to where it needs to be in the manner you desire. Its all about the energy and the vector thereof. Sounds like geek-boy psychobabble, but its what is happening and all that matters. Once you get with the program, you will be a next level player. Once you feel this stuff happening, you are gold.
So take notes on that stuff, stuff you know you will forget if you are like me. I re-read this junk over and over again and I am surprised continually that I wrote this stuff. it helps.
Thanks for every one who weighed in. There needs to be a serious discussion of one pocket. One without flaming and barking. It is such a complex and beautiful game and deserves some theoretical .analysis
Some questions I have is-Difference between tournament and cash game. Approach to races vs games ahead. Styles between the shooter (SVB, DAZ) vs the mechanic (Varner, Joyner) vs the bank specialist (Shannon, John Brumback). Of course Efren is in a universe of his own. Does learning 1 pocket help my 9 ball game? Why aren't more women playing it? Etc Etc Etc.
I know Incardone tried to do this before with a nice tape for Accu-Stats.
Every one had a good point about the approach to the game and showed me there is a lot to learn. Thanks guys.
Some questions I have is-Difference between tournament and cash game. Approach to races vs games ahead. Styles between the shooter (SVB, DAZ) vs the mechanic (Varner, Joyner) vs the bank specialist (Shannon, John Brumback). Of course Efren is in a universe of his own. Does learning 1 pocket help my 9 ball game? Why aren't more women playing it? Etc Etc Etc.
I know Incardone tried to do this before with a nice tape for Accu-Stats.
Every one had a good point about the approach to the game and showed me there is a lot to learn. Thanks guys.
I am sure you probably know, of onepocket.org, good site dedicated for onepocket.
Learning 1 pocket helps 9 and 10 ball game a little; only if you already a good ball potter in those games.
As far as women and one pocket; i am not touching this topic, JAM could give us good answer i hope.
I stopped posting on that site after a good friend of mine who was a reg there passed away and there was so much flaming and one upsmanship. I know that happens everywhere. I took some time off and started my endeavors in poker and had some good success'. Poker players loved to talk strategy, math, and bankroll management. I thought that it was much needed in pool.
I took up one pocket again and have been looking at the game with new eyes so to speak.
I been playing with all kinds of different people and saw much different approaches. A friend who is an excellent 9 ball player has taken up the game and used the safeties that has become much more sophisticated in rotation games.
I have a regular game with a woman and she plays a fine game of one pocket. And always wondered why more woman didn't take it up. Recently she got a spot from a top pro and he quit her after he realized he couldn't win and that she knew something about the game.
Ive seen people make a leap in their ability and some who just remained stagnant and kept playing badly. I always wanted to know why.
In the game of one pocket it didn't seem that it was a technical skill level only but a theoretical understanding of the game that made your game jump up as well.
Last edited:
Wow, calling Jerry great, it might go to his head. But the man knows 1p. Only plays 3-6 hrs of pool a week and still competitive at high levels. He know more about CB control than anyone I know of.
Advice from him is worth taking to heart
I think the main benefit from warming up is getting used to the table.
One pocket is a game where speed is huge. You can just 'roll your own' in 9 ball,
slam through the rack or tickle them softly.
But in one pocket, soft touch and spin shots are everywhere.
A small speed error can turn a smart move into a huge sellout.
And you have to learn how the rails play, in a game with lots of slow banks that's huge.
I think your 20 minute warmup is still good, but if possible it should be on the same table.
If not possible, warm up on a nearby table of the same make and model if you're in a public room.
If you still feel like you're a "slow starter" despite the warmup time,
then I'd say it's a psychological thing. You can't get superstitious about pool.
No such thing as a slump, a slow starter, an extra-lucky or extra-unlucky player, etc.
Once that stuff gets in your head, your subconscious will take a phantom problem
and turn it into reality. You'll see only the good rolls your opponent gets,
you'll miss balls you normally make because you expect a negative outcome
and think "I'm not warmed up enough to make this shot".
You have decades of muscle memory, it's all still there even if you haven't hit a ball in a while.
One pocket is a game where speed is huge. You can just 'roll your own' in 9 ball,
slam through the rack or tickle them softly.
But in one pocket, soft touch and spin shots are everywhere.
A small speed error can turn a smart move into a huge sellout.
And you have to learn how the rails play, in a game with lots of slow banks that's huge.
I think your 20 minute warmup is still good, but if possible it should be on the same table.
If not possible, warm up on a nearby table of the same make and model if you're in a public room.
If you still feel like you're a "slow starter" despite the warmup time,
then I'd say it's a psychological thing. You can't get superstitious about pool.
No such thing as a slump, a slow starter, an extra-lucky or extra-unlucky player, etc.
Once that stuff gets in your head, your subconscious will take a phantom problem
and turn it into reality. You'll see only the good rolls your opponent gets,
you'll miss balls you normally make because you expect a negative outcome
and think "I'm not warmed up enough to make this shot".
You have decades of muscle memory, it's all still there even if you haven't hit a ball in a while.
CreeDo , I disagree about subconscious and muscle memory, one has to constantly think about shots, position speed how much aim to offset how much throw squirt on many key shots, if you go down wrong on any shot it is not subconscious job.
Play safe, safe and more safe, including sending balls up table to draw out the first couple of racks. Make your opponent and yourself pick them off one ball at a time. He will be having as much trouble as you. Worked for me about a million times when I came in cold.
Well, nobody said "don't think about speed, throw, etc."
You will always think about how to play each shot.
I'm saying if you let yourself slip into negative or superstitious thinking,
it will cause your imaginary problems to turn into real ones.
Even if you think you have perfect fundamentals,
a consistent preshot routine, and a foolproof method of aiming...
the intangibles like pressure and mood can cause you to miss.
So if you expect to miss because you aren't warmed up, you probably will miss.
Somehow that fear affects your stroke and causes an easy shot to rattle.
To avoid that, you must have the mindset that you already know how to shoot good pool,
and you don't need 3 racks to remember how to do that.
You didn't forget in the short time between today and the last time you shot well.
Since Jay Helfert has chimed in with a great post, how do all of you feel about the difference between a bank player and a one pocket player with a bank warm up routine for one pocket.
Bank players usually fire them in to make sure the angle is more pure but one hole players are usually banking with object ball control leaving the ball a threat to the opponent if there is a miss.
I know of great one pocket players who make the most incredible banks in the one hole game yet refuse to play a bank player banks .
I guess the question for most of you one pocket players is how do you warm up on the banks? Do you fire for accuracy or use pocket speed for your object ball and table roll?
Bank players usually fire them in to make sure the angle is more pure but one hole players are usually banking with object ball control leaving the ball a threat to the opponent if there is a miss.
I know of great one pocket players who make the most incredible banks in the one hole game yet refuse to play a bank player banks .
I guess the question for most of you one pocket players is how do you warm up on the banks? Do you fire for accuracy or use pocket speed for your object ball and table roll?
Pocket speed will almost always serve your interest best in one hole. Even if.you miss a full table bomb back.to your hole by a diamond or two, it will usually make life harder on your opponent.
I prefer to stake balls close to my pocket on the short rail to either bait my opponent into kicking at it or making a difficult clearing shot at my pocket. Either way, life is harder for them. I really avoid leaving balls alone on my long rail.... If its not possible to get the ball to the short rail by my pocket, then i leave it way off the rail and the CB as close to perpendicular as possible so there is no easy cut or bank.
Regards,
Lesh
I'll send you one for FREE.....simply send me the request
I could give you many ways to "warm up," however, you may just need a "mental reboot"......try playing opposite handed (left handed if you're currently right) for 10 minutes and shoot a lot of bank shots and/or straight pool racks....my 'TIP BANKING SECRETS' show a system that would be very useful if you're playing a lot of one pocket.
Let me know if you want the TIP BANKING SECRETS and I'll send you one for FREE.....simply send me the request at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com and I'll get one out to you right away.
Play Well.....'The Game is the Teacher'
I could give you many ways to "warm up," however, you may just need a "mental reboot"......try playing opposite handed (left handed if you're currently right) for 10 minutes and shoot a lot of bank shots and/or straight pool racks....my 'TIP BANKING SECRETS' show a system that would be very useful if you're playing a lot of one pocket.
Let me know if you want the TIP BANKING SECRETS and I'll send you one for FREE.....simply send me the request at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com and I'll get one out to you right away.
Play Well.....'The Game is the Teacher'
Play safe, safe and more safe, including sending balls up table to draw out the first couple of racks. Make your opponent and yourself pick them off one ball at a time. He will be having as much trouble as you. Worked for me about a million times when I came in cold.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Listen to what this man said and incorporate what Creedo, PT, and others said with the first part "Play safe, safe, and more safe." You stated you start out cold. This will allow you to get into the rhythm you normally shoot at. But you have to start with the fundamentals (controlling whitey, table speed, taking fouls, using the stack, reading the stack, assessing risk vs reward, AND PLAYING SAFE!!!!) Up-Table is your friend.
Now that you mention it, I've seen some mighty strong one pocket players with what I would describe as a "Poke Stroke".
To Yobagua - I'm kinda the same way, and I think it's because I try to do too much at first. It takes me a while to settle down and get a feel for the speed of the table, as well as realize that I''m not going to make everything. When I start out playing more carefully and strategically, things work out a lot better in the end. If I'm selling out a lot in the first few innings/games, it also gives a psychological boost (and a lot of momentum) to my opponent.
Ken
The Power of Now
Ok, I just saw this thread and see that you already have a number of great suggestions for improving your game.
However, your title suggests you are looking for suggestions about Strategy but your Message suggests that you are having difficulty with your stroke and your precision(pocketing ability).
These are very different things and we could all improve in each of these areas by deciding what it is we want to improve on most.
Some players do warm up at warp speed, pounding balls like they were driving nails. I might suggest that you do just the opposite, since you do not play regularly (every day) and that just before you play, line up the object ball on the foot string-one half of a ball off of the side rail and place the cue ball in the same position on the head string. Practice your alignment, while standing upright and when you are sure that you have Perfect Alignment with the shot line, go straight down to the table (rather than weaving from left to right as you get closer to the table, in other words hold the line that you see as the correct line when standing), now PRACTICE STROKING SLOWLY & SMOOTHLY, with a level cue as possible or needed (depending upon whether you are drawing your cue ball, making stop shots or follow shots as they are all important). There is a discussion about these things from the people who are reading the book by Mark Wilson, "Play Great Pool" which you can read about by clicking here.
PRECISION is what you are looking for. Precision in everything, leave no area of attention out as it may be something as simple as tip placement being off by 1/8". It doesn't take much body movement either to provide inconsistent results either. Keep VERY STILL.
Another video by one of pool's great instructors about "shooting" can be found by clicking here.
Precision is a relative term to most of us, but the truth is that we lack the desire to apply the kind of precision that pool requires of us to play consistently well. Re-double your efforts to be more precise from the very beginning rather than spinning your time warming up at warp speed. You need extreme precision more than loose muscles unless you are already body-building 4 hours per day and have stiff muscles.
If you want to loosen up, do some stretching before playing pool. IT WORKS.
PAY ATTENTION TO PRECISELY WHERE THE OBJECT BALL TRAVELS AND WHERE THE CUE MOVES TO AFTER HITTING THE OBJECT BALL.
If the object ball finds the pocket on the above shot, that's just great. But if the OB finds the pocket while hitting the side rail going in, NOT SO GREAT.
If you see the cue ball, moving away from the shot line after contacting the object ball, you know you are either not hitting the contact point precisely OR you are hitting the cue ball with slight spin and it is throwing the object ball and moving the cue ball off of the shot line after contact is made. At first you should just try to stop the cue ball. Then you can move to draw or follow, just make sure the shot is a perfectly straight shot. DO ALL OF THIS WITH VERY SLOW STROKES, especially the LAST BACK STROKE. You will find another level of precision which is what you are looking for. This is all that I would practice until you have mastered the art of precision on this one shot. You can do it before a match, spending as little as 5 - 10 minutes. It will help.
It's kind of funny but I watched great players all these years practicing the same shot over and over. By shooting the same shot over and over they are trying to work out the kinks of perspective, stance, alignment, bridge strength, balance, rhythm, stroke, smoothness, acceleration on final forward stroke, precise cue movement, precise cue tip placement, and simultaneously, trying to obtain consistent results by doing the same precise thing each time, all the while, having a relaxed body and mind.
Good luck to you.
JoeyA
Ok, I just saw this thread and see that you already have a number of great suggestions for improving your game.
However, your title suggests you are looking for suggestions about Strategy but your Message suggests that you are having difficulty with your stroke and your precision(pocketing ability).
These are very different things and we could all improve in each of these areas by deciding what it is we want to improve on most.
Some players do warm up at warp speed, pounding balls like they were driving nails. I might suggest that you do just the opposite, since you do not play regularly (every day) and that just before you play, line up the object ball on the foot string-one half of a ball off of the side rail and place the cue ball in the same position on the head string. Practice your alignment, while standing upright and when you are sure that you have Perfect Alignment with the shot line, go straight down to the table (rather than weaving from left to right as you get closer to the table, in other words hold the line that you see as the correct line when standing), now PRACTICE STROKING SLOWLY & SMOOTHLY, with a level cue as possible or needed (depending upon whether you are drawing your cue ball, making stop shots or follow shots as they are all important). There is a discussion about these things from the people who are reading the book by Mark Wilson, "Play Great Pool" which you can read about by clicking here.
PRECISION is what you are looking for. Precision in everything, leave no area of attention out as it may be something as simple as tip placement being off by 1/8". It doesn't take much body movement either to provide inconsistent results either. Keep VERY STILL.
Another video by one of pool's great instructors about "shooting" can be found by clicking here.
Precision is a relative term to most of us, but the truth is that we lack the desire to apply the kind of precision that pool requires of us to play consistently well. Re-double your efforts to be more precise from the very beginning rather than spinning your time warming up at warp speed. You need extreme precision more than loose muscles unless you are already body-building 4 hours per day and have stiff muscles.
If you want to loosen up, do some stretching before playing pool. IT WORKS.
PAY ATTENTION TO PRECISELY WHERE THE OBJECT BALL TRAVELS AND WHERE THE CUE MOVES TO AFTER HITTING THE OBJECT BALL.
If the object ball finds the pocket on the above shot, that's just great. But if the OB finds the pocket while hitting the side rail going in, NOT SO GREAT.
If you see the cue ball, moving away from the shot line after contacting the object ball, you know you are either not hitting the contact point precisely OR you are hitting the cue ball with slight spin and it is throwing the object ball and moving the cue ball off of the shot line after contact is made. At first you should just try to stop the cue ball. Then you can move to draw or follow, just make sure the shot is a perfectly straight shot. DO ALL OF THIS WITH VERY SLOW STROKES, especially the LAST BACK STROKE. You will find another level of precision which is what you are looking for. This is all that I would practice until you have mastered the art of precision on this one shot. You can do it before a match, spending as little as 5 - 10 minutes. It will help.
It's kind of funny but I watched great players all these years practicing the same shot over and over. By shooting the same shot over and over they are trying to work out the kinks of perspective, stance, alignment, bridge strength, balance, rhythm, stroke, smoothness, acceleration on final forward stroke, precise cue movement, precise cue tip placement, and simultaneously, trying to obtain consistent results by doing the same precise thing each time, all the while, having a relaxed body and mind.
Good luck to you.
JoeyA
Last edited:
Wow!!! I thought this thread was dead. Thanks so much for your suggestions and advice Im honored that someone like CJ would respond and take the time to write some of your thoughts. You don't know it but a bank you had on you tube (long bank with extreme inside to get shape) has stunned some of my opponents.
And particularly from my good friend Joey A. Im going to apply that exercise tonite.
I really think that an in-depth discussion about one pocket strategy and technique can go on forever. I been playing an over cautious game. (Safe, traps, lock ups) but trying to integrate into a more ball running offense. Like RA used to say the best defense is 8 and out. But its hard to turn a turtle into a hare. And my style has made many a hare bamboozled. But I still have trouble with the power guys who when left a shot can run out. .
But its guys like you who care about the game that make me love it.
Mahalo
Keone
And particularly from my good friend Joey A. Im going to apply that exercise tonite.
I really think that an in-depth discussion about one pocket strategy and technique can go on forever. I been playing an over cautious game. (Safe, traps, lock ups) but trying to integrate into a more ball running offense. Like RA used to say the best defense is 8 and out. But its hard to turn a turtle into a hare. And my style has made many a hare bamboozled. But I still have trouble with the power guys who when left a shot can run out. .
But its guys like you who care about the game that make me love it.
Mahalo
Keone
One of the smartest players I ever met, would practice for an hour or 2 somewhere else before he went to the poolroom to gamble.
He didn't play unless he was in stroke.
It sucks to get stuck 3 or 4 games and try to get even all the time but most people don't have the time {or believe in it enough } to do this.
He didn't play unless he was in stroke.
It sucks to get stuck 3 or 4 games and try to get even all the time but most people don't have the time {or believe in it enough } to do this.
Thank you CJ. I tell you what Ill purchase it from you. Youre a business man and I respect you. Ill go to your site. Thanks
Keone