DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Everyone who complains about a guy winning all the time will find something else to complain about after you ban him.
Opinions regarding a former top pro playing in and dominating a Poolroom‘s weekly handicapped tournament?
- Thread starter ChrisinNC
- Start date
What's your mailing address?
Does he know how to teach?
If you don't want to go to extreme game spots, put in some other kind of spot. He has to bank the two balls before the money. Or, his opponent can shoot at either of the two (or three) lowest balls on the table. This spot applies to all of his games, so he might not even be the strongest player in the tournament after he gives this spot to next strongest players.
I used to play in a handicapped league where the max spot was 10-2. It wasn't enough to make some of the matches fair since we had beginners to semi-pros in the league.
And if you stick with the games spots, you might want to whisper these three magic words in the ears of the weaker players: "Ride the money." It is idiocy for them to try to use SVB's strategy.
I used to play in a handicapped league where the max spot was 10-2. It wasn't enough to make some of the matches fair since we had beginners to semi-pros in the league.
And if you stick with the games spots, you might want to whisper these three magic words in the ears of the weaker players: "Ride the money." It is idiocy for them to try to use SVB's strategy.
If he's giving up 2 - 10 races, and he's winning every week, I frankly don't believe the results. Have you seen them first hand, or its he-said-she-said?
I'd keep him in. Maybe make him a feature. "Bonus if anyone knocks out player xyz".
Excluding good players goes agains my DNA in wanting to be a good player.
I'd keep him in. Maybe make him a feature. "Bonus if anyone knocks out player xyz".
Excluding good players goes agains my DNA in wanting to be a good player.
Yes, the facts I stated here are indeed true. I kind of agree that the positives of him playing in it should trump the negatives, at least for the players who truly want to improve, but I can’t say for sure how I would handle it unless it was occurring in our room.
It’s kind of like a hypothetical proposition as a room owner of would you take Earl to be your house pro and live in a spare bedroom at your house, no salary, but he can give lessons and keep 100%. It would be hard to say no for the exposure of your room and for the potential benefit of your regulars, at least until he wore out his welcome. To clarify, the player referred to in this post is not Earl.
If he wins most times with 2/10 handicap then week 1 he wins, he sits out week 2.
Week 3, (if double elimination), he starts loser side so 1 loss he's out.
4th week starts all over again, his time to get the easy $.
Then same way again. He'll enjoy it also, or,,,,,
Week 3, (if double elimination), he starts loser side so 1 loss he's out.
4th week starts all over again, his time to get the easy $.
Then same way again. He'll enjoy it also, or,,,,,
Keith McCready used to play in local 9-ball weekly tournaments in Maryland in pool room-type bars. They'd usually have 15 to 30 players, $20 entry fee. It paid 1st and 2nd place, if memory serves me correctly. He'd win, I'd say, 50 to 60 percent of the time, but we do have good social shooters in our area, some of whom are known today who gamble with anyone and everyone.
What was interesting is when somebody else would win, they'd feel like they gained a notch in their belt, beating Grady Seasons. In fact, they enjoyed it, as did Keith. Of course, Keith was not in tip-top form or in his prime, but he could still draw a crowd in awe with his shot-making capabilities. When a person did win and knock Keith out of the tournament, you could see the pride on their faces. It was fun, actually, for everyone, well, except maybe for Keith a brief moment. We really just went to those tournaments to stay in stroke. Plus, it got us out of the house and gave us some social activity, hanging out with friends.
It is a tough decision for a room owner if the patrons are complaining. Nobody complained about Keith, but Keith did not win each and every time either. His presence initially, however, was an attraction, I think, for some. After a while, he became one of the locals and was treated that way. We both felt at home.
What was interesting is when somebody else would win, they'd feel like they gained a notch in their belt, beating Grady Seasons. In fact, they enjoyed it, as did Keith. Of course, Keith was not in tip-top form or in his prime, but he could still draw a crowd in awe with his shot-making capabilities. When a person did win and knock Keith out of the tournament, you could see the pride on their faces. It was fun, actually, for everyone, well, except maybe for Keith a brief moment. We really just went to those tournaments to stay in stroke. Plus, it got us out of the house and gave us some social activity, hanging out with friends.
It is a tough decision for a room owner if the patrons are complaining. Nobody complained about Keith, but Keith did not win each and every time either. His presence initially, however, was an attraction, I think, for some. After a while, he became one of the locals and was treated that way. We both felt at home.
We are in the age of the internet- you do not learn anything losing your money in a no win situation that you could not learn by just watching the pros on u tube. The days of having to lose money to learn in pool are over- have been for a long time. 99% of the time, people getting beat badly don't actually pay attention anyhow- their emotions overcome their senses.
Any sensible business person who is a room owner should do what is best for 90% of the paying customers - you can figure out the answer from here.
Any sensible business person who is a room owner should do what is best for 90% of the paying customers - you can figure out the answer from here.
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Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
It is not a case of what is being done, but who's doing it, and how well it is being done. The best "hustler" in the world is one who can make you feel fortunate as you are being taken off. It is a real talent and is incredibly interesting to observe in practice. "Oh, please slip your hand in my pocket and take another."
JAM, I think you hit the nail on the head -- its all about becoming one of the group -- and this has everything to do with what one is really about. I imagine, don't know either of y'all for even a minute, y'alls purpose in attending was not to grab the cheese but rather to hang out and be among friends, nothing in the world like being included in regular gatherings of kindred spirits, regardless of where on the spectrum of talent and fame one resides.
Now, let's talk about what's "fair" and not, because fairness is a concept which necessarily involves at least two opposing points of view. It is a fate that presents zero risk to me, but imagine working diligently for a long period and then being fortunate enough to eventually excel at a game such as pool and then being told you are just no longer wanted -- nope, not allowed to participate, barred -- from the very activity you love and so diligently and ardently pursued. Fair? Not? Seems like a no-brainer.
JAM, I think you hit the nail on the head -- its all about becoming one of the group -- and this has everything to do with what one is really about. I imagine, don't know either of y'all for even a minute, y'alls purpose in attending was not to grab the cheese but rather to hang out and be among friends, nothing in the world like being included in regular gatherings of kindred spirits, regardless of where on the spectrum of talent and fame one resides.
Now, let's talk about what's "fair" and not, because fairness is a concept which necessarily involves at least two opposing points of view. It is a fate that presents zero risk to me, but imagine working diligently for a long period and then being fortunate enough to eventually excel at a game such as pool and then being told you are just no longer wanted -- nope, not allowed to participate, barred -- from the very activity you love and so diligently and ardently pursued. Fair? Not? Seems like a no-brainer.
Let the dead money play at a discount. 
A stronger player needs to be a good sales person to keep from being banned. It's an art. Back in the 80s The Mustard Seed 2 in Bellevue WA had 8 bar tables and a large Vietnamese community that loved to gamble. A 5 handed ring game at 1 on the 5 and 2 on the 9 respot was a nightly thing. My personal rule was Never make more than 3 in a row without splashing the cash. They enjoyed it and didn't mind paying for the cheap lessons for a year and a half. They would take what they learned playing me to a Tacoma bar on the hill where they played the owner for 50. By the time one of them took me down there the owner had been scored on by real players enough times that he was very cautious with outsiders. I couldn't get him up off of 10 a game. So 120 was all I could score. My sponsor even refused his half.
After moving north to Bellingham I stopped by The Seed a year later. I got in the ring game making the 5th. My first visit to the table I ran out making both money balls and all 4 unscrewed. I thanked them for the beer money and withdrew to sip my beer and watch.
A stronger player needs to be a good sales person to keep from being banned. It's an art. Back in the 80s The Mustard Seed 2 in Bellevue WA had 8 bar tables and a large Vietnamese community that loved to gamble. A 5 handed ring game at 1 on the 5 and 2 on the 9 respot was a nightly thing. My personal rule was Never make more than 3 in a row without splashing the cash. They enjoyed it and didn't mind paying for the cheap lessons for a year and a half. They would take what they learned playing me to a Tacoma bar on the hill where they played the owner for 50.
By the time one of them took me down there the owner had been scored on by real players enough times that he was very cautious with outsiders. I couldn't get him up off of 10 a game. So 120 was all I could score. My sponsor even refused his half.After moving north to Bellingham I stopped by The Seed a year later. I got in the ring game making the 5th. My first visit to the table I ran out making both money balls and all 4 unscrewed. I thanked them for the beer money and withdrew to sip my beer and watch.
OK it's early and snooker ain't on yet so one last "Old Man" story. 
In '07 I did a job in Iraq., putting mortar protection over the DFAC. FOB Kalsue was the base. It served 4,000 meals a day and had a long line at meal time. The soldiers needed their weapon to get in. As a contractor I just needed my I D. So one day standing in line I was adjacent another group of contractors that did missions outside the wire. They all looked buffed and most likely were familiar with steroids. So anyway one was obviously older than the rest and got in a beef wih one of their crew that was much younger. He ended the dispute with words of gold. He said, "Son, you can't win. If you kick my ass your friends will never let you hear the end of it. "Oh Wow you kicked an Old Man's Ass!" AND if I win you will never hear the end of it. "Oh Wow, you got your ass kicked by an Old Man." The team giggled and the young man saw the light.
Ooops sorry for the intrusion. Now to brew the coffee and prepare to watch the snooker finals. Who knows I might learn something. Even at my age, I still can learn. Well the Oldtimers makes it possible to relearn. The best part of Oldtimers is all the new friends I make. Again and again.
In '07 I did a job in Iraq., putting mortar protection over the DFAC. FOB Kalsue was the base. It served 4,000 meals a day and had a long line at meal time. The soldiers needed their weapon to get in. As a contractor I just needed my I D. So one day standing in line I was adjacent another group of contractors that did missions outside the wire. They all looked buffed and most likely were familiar with steroids. So anyway one was obviously older than the rest and got in a beef wih one of their crew that was much younger. He ended the dispute with words of gold. He said, "Son, you can't win. If you kick my ass your friends will never let you hear the end of it. "Oh Wow you kicked an Old Man's Ass!" AND if I win you will never hear the end of it. "Oh Wow, you got your ass kicked by an Old Man." The team giggled and the young man saw the light.
Ooops sorry for the intrusion.
Now to brew the coffee and prepare to watch the snooker finals. Who knows I might learn something. Even at my age, I still can learn. Well the Oldtimers makes it possible to relearn. The best part of Oldtimers is all the new friends I make. Again and again.
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One last story. In 03 working at the Vit Plant on the Handord site, we experienced significant down time. One day seated at the table with my carpenters crew, an apprentice spoke up with, "you Old guys sure tell a lot of stories. But when Greg tells them, they are the same. Every Time."
Bah Dah Dump (rim shot).
In 03 working at the Vit Plant on the Handord site, we experienced significant down time. One day seated at the table with my carpenters crew, an apprentice spoke up with, "you Old guys sure tell a lot of stories. But when Greg tells them, they are the same. Every Time."Bah Dah Dump (rim shot).
As far as I know, the room owner/TD at this room does not go by Fargo for his rankings, which is quite challenging considering now that this player and occasionally a few other pretty good players are in the field, he now has 9 different rankings. In my opinion, that just gets way too subjective.
In our room for our weekly, I keep it much simpler by having only 4 different rankings. When a player plays that is better than our top ranked players, I just add one more tier.
Truth.
The people who try to make that argument are the open level players arguing against handicapped or Fargo capped tournaments because they want to be able to rob the less skilled players.
I can sit on my ass and watch really good players without paying an entry fee to do so...
It doesn’t and for most of us, nothing helps anyway. Losing 7-0 to a pro or losing 7-5 to fellow smuck has the same educational value.