Opinions wanted

[Mcues]

A specialty cue lathe maker goes around the country promoting his products which end up in the hands of American cuemakers, wannabe's, repairman, and future cuemakers. At the same time he promotes lines of foreign Billiard cue makers. Is there something wrong with this? Honest question...no flaming please.

Mario

 

[manwon]

A specialty cue lathe maker goes around the country promoting his products which end up in the hands of American cuemakers, wannabe's, repairman, and future cuemakers. At the same time he promotes lines of foreign Billiard cue makers. Is there something wrong with this? Honest question...no flaming please.

Mario

Mario the only opinion I can offer is never and I mean never say no flaming when asking for opinions!!!!!!!!!

JIMO

 

[cuejo]

Are the foreign cue makers using the equipment that he is selling?
What's the big deal?
With the Internet, this whole planet is so very small.....

 

[Mojocues]

A specialty cue lathe maker goes around the country promoting his products which end up in the hands of American cuemakers, wannabe's, repairman, and future cuemakers. At the same time he promotes lines of foreign Billiard cue makers. Is there something wrong with this? Honest question...no flaming please.

Mario

well are the foreign cue makers his customers too ???

 

[KJ Cues]

Well, your question is a little less than specific so I can only answer what is asked.
If I understand you correctly, I don't see a problem with someone promoting their lathes
and at the same, time selling import cues.
Patriotism is OK in moderation but not when it prevents someone from making a living.
We've entered into a world-market of late and supply will meet demand regardless of the
country of origin. It's free-trade on a global level.
The customer is free to purchase at their pleasure. The guilt is no longer on the seller
but now on the buyer. In most cases the buyer will purchase what they can afford.
Ideally, I believe the buyer would like to buy American but can only afford the import.
I'm not going to fault him for that. At the end of the day, he just wants to play pool
without killing his/her budget. It's no longer about patriotism but about what he can afford.

Not everyone can afford a $500/1,000 KJ cue. I understand that.
I don't feel slighted when the client settles on the import that they CAN afford.
They came to me because they wanted one of my cues. I have no problem selling them the
import because that's what they can afford. It's more important to me that they get in the game.
In most cases, I'll stand behind the cue that I sell them and will always be there for
them to provide whatever maintenance and repairs they may need.
I'm not just in the business to sell cues. I believe that customer service is a product also.
Sometimes, it's the most important one.

I'm not even going to try to compete with the Chinese. On that level, it can't be done.
My clients know who I am and what I'm about. They will be back when they can afford the KJ cue.
In the meantime, they know I've got their back on maintaining the cue they have.

KJ

 

[Dave38]

MY only input on this 'person' is.... If your only here to sell your crap, then at least become a CLUB member. This will pay for the bandwith and storage space of the images you post of your equipment for sale, and the complaints from buyers afterwards...then the rest of us that ARE club members won't have to support your end of it.
All done, JMO,
Dave

 

[Mcues]

General response

I would have to say that none of the foreign custom makers he represents have his equipment and they're not likely to have it in the future. They are well beyond such basic steps. Think of world known names in Billiard cues, at custom cue prices.

This is not an economic world trade lesson with the Chinese banging on our door.

Simply put, you sell cue lathes to mostly Americans at the early stages of cue making, and as designated machines for single duty to qualified American cuemakers.(small businessmen)

Is there a moral question, or even a good business practice; about supporting the efforts of your customers as they progress or create wonders.

On a patriotic and Billiard note, can we allow the continuation of the slow draining sand from our markets.

I'm a believer in Freedom in all areas along with level playing fields whenever possible, ethics, and not ransacking for the sake of personal gain.

Displaying lathes geared for American customers across the country so they can make cues and at the same time displaying foreign custom lines maybe even exclusivetely strikes me as a slap on my weathered, Liberal, American veteran face. So be it.

That's why I have opened a discussion...perhaps my thinking is faulty or just outdated.
Respectfully,


Mario

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I buy my $16 Wrangler jeans from Wall Mart.
I buy my Harley parts from the HD shop. Sometimes they come in boxes that say Genuine Harley Davidson parts and other times they come in Jobber boxes.

I suspect that in either case, chances are good that they are not produced in North America. At least a percentage of the time they might not be.

Sometimes a person doesn't have much of a choice. I didn't create the situation and I do what I have to do.

I do check items and it makes me feel good to buy goods that are made in North America.

As far as selling cue lathes along with foreign billiard products. A guy has to make a living these days and does what he feels he has to to put bread on the table.

Why does this happen. Because North American factory workers have Unions and need to get paid fairly. As in maybe a minimum of $20 an hour for standing in a production line and packing boxes. They also require Health benefits, pension plans etc. The Union gets them these perks.

People in other lands are grateful to have a job that puts food on the table for their family and will work for a fraction of the
NA wage.

How can we stop it? We can't, its gone too far.

 

[JoeyInCali]

He can show how much money you can make repairing those imports.
Wear neoprene gloves then spin the ferrule.

Lathe sold.:thumbup:

 

[cuejo]

I think also a little more info is required as well...

 

[KJ Cues]

I would have to say that none of the foreign custom makers he represents have his equipment and they're not likely to have it in the future. They are well beyond such basic steps. Think of world known names in Billiard cues, at custom cue prices.

This is not an economic world trade lesson with the Chinese banging on our door.

Simply put, you sell cue lathes to mostly Americans at the early stages of cue making, and as designated machines for single duty to qualified American cuemakers.(small businessmen)

Is there a moral question, or even a good business practice; about supporting the efforts of your customers as they progress or create wonders.

On a patriotic and Billiard note, can we allow the continuation of the slow draining sand from our markets.

I'm a believer in Freedom in all areas along with level playing fields whenever possible, ethics, and not ransacking for the sake of personal gain.

Displaying lathes geared for American customers across the country so they can make cues and at the same time displaying foreign custom lines maybe even exclusivetely strikes me as a slap on my weathered, Liberal, American veteran face. So be it.

That's why I have opened a discussion...perhaps my thinking is faulty or just outdated.
Respectfully,


Mario

Mario, I'm not certain I understand your point but then I've been known to
misread a post or two on occasion.

The markets belong to those who can best supply them.
Best price, best customer service and above all else, the best product.
I don't care where it comes from. Point of origin is not the deciding factor.

You do realize that there aren't a lot of Billiards cue-makers in this country.
Yet a lot of people play the game. The cues have to come from somewhere.
Some of these foreign builders may make an exceptional cue.
I'd take an Accura over an Escort 8 days a week.

Let me ask you this: If someone died and left you a US based Ferrari dealership,
would you sell it or would you sell exceptional cars?

I'm a fairly principled guy but I'm also a businessman.
My work and my cues go all over the world.
I'm thankful for a global marketplace.
It's like for 50 yrs all you have is your small-town newspaper.
Then you discover the internet.
Get in the saddle or go to the house.

KJ

 

[macguy]

I buy my $16 Wrangler jeans from Wall Mart.
I buy my Harley parts from the HD shop. Sometimes they come in boxes that say Genuine Harley Davidson parts and other times they come in Jobber boxes.

I suspect that in either case, chances are good that they are not produced in North America. At least a percentage of the time they might not be.

Sometimes a person doesn't have much of a choice. I didn't create the situation and I do what I have to do.

I do check items and it makes me feel good to buy goods that are made in North America.

As far as selling cue lathes along with foreign billiard products. A guy has to make a living these days and does what he feels he has to to put bread on the table.

Why does this happen. Because North American factory workers have Unions and need to get paid fairly. As in maybe a minimum of $20 an hour for standing in a production line and packing boxes. They also require Health benefits, pension plans etc. The Union gets them these perks.

People in other lands are grateful to have a job that puts food on the table for their family and will work for a fraction of the
NA wage.

How can we stop it? We can't, its gone too far.

It only represents a small link in the chain. Much of the resources that go into those products come from the US. They are sent over there and turned into products that are shipped back to the US, moved in trucks driver by Americans, sold and serviced by Americans and Americans get the benefit of affordable products they want.. Except for the labor to produce them the US makes zillions off these imports that are actually made by American owned companies and results in a lot of jobs right here. Americans can't have it both ways. They want cheap products but want to be paid $30.00 an hour to produce them. It just does not work that way. I am afraid the American worker has painted themselves into a corner.

 

[Wayne-Holmes]

Best price, best customer service and above all else, the best product.
KJ

Interesting concept, but would it really work(?) <--A rhetorical question mark

 

[Mcues]

Mario, I'm not certain I understand your point but then I've been known to
misread a post or two on occasion.

The markets belong to those who can best supply them.
Best price, best customer service and above all else, the best product.
I don't care where it comes from. Point of origin is not the deciding factor.

You do realize that there aren't a lot of Billiards cue-makers in this country.
Yet a lot of people play the game. The cues have to come from somewhere.
Some of these foreign builders may make an exceptional cue.
I'd take an Accura over an Escort 8 days a week.

Let me ask you this: If someone died and left you a US based Ferrari dealership,
would you sell it or would you sell exceptional cars?

I'm a fairly principled guy but I'm also a businessman.
My work and my cues go all over the world.
I'm thankful for a global marketplace.
It's like for 50 yrs all you have is your small-town newspaper.
Then you discover the internet.
Get in the saddle or go to the house.

KJ

The reason for the lack of Billiard cuemakers in this country is because it's a small market making it highly unprofitable. For every 10 or 20 pool players there's one billiard player in this country. Ask Dickman.

The foreign custom makers do make a quality product. There's no reason why we can make both pool cues and billiard cues if we choose to, and that means you, me, and everybody else but that's not the point.

Somehow the thought that you sell lathes to inspiring fellow Americans but you do not promote the end results of that sale or the American Billiard industry makes me wonder if we have become a nation of idiots who deserve to be ransacked, since we are doing it to ourselves for the mighty dollar(not worth as much) in this case part time at that while holding full time job. This is not about this particular individual but the ongoing trend.

We're not talking eating money and necessity but rather ransacking with untested products released unto the less knowing and using them as research guinea pigs and at the same time killing their future market.

Global marketplace has added great benefits to the world. I think competition is great and without it we would still be under GM thumb. I like to see five different cue making lathe manufactures but not at the price of ransacking their way through the tulips.

On the Ferrari dealership, I would take it and start taking their cars apart so I can learn how they make expensive quality cars. Start a racing team and kick their butts .Hire a bunch of smart Americans and set them loose on the development of American handmade cars. In fifty years who knows.

When the original question was asked in this forum about selling things I was the first one to say good idea. I received 20 IM's asking what I had to sell, which happen to be nothing.

It's come to be that almost every purchase is a hazzle, entangled in more hazzle. If it continues this way I will stop all transactions, and retract my vote.

Mario(who needs sleep)

 

[Mcues]

He can show how much money you can make repairing those imports.
Wear neoprene gloves then spin the ferrule.

Lathe sold.:thumbup:

Think quality Joey not junk

Mario

 

[KJ Cues]

The reason for the lack of Billiard cuemakers in this country is because it's a small market making it highly unprofitable. For every 10 or 20 pool players there's one billiard player in this country. Ask Dickman.

The foreign custom makers do make a quality product. There's no reason why we can make both pool cues and billiard cues if we choose to, and that means you, me, and everybody else but that's not the point.

Somehow the thought that you sell lathes to inspiring fellow Americans but you do not promote the end results of that sale or the American Billiard industry makes me wonder if we have become a nation of idiots who deserve to be ransacked, since we are doing it to ourselves for the mighty dollar(not worth as much) in this case part time at that while holding full time job. This is not about this particular individual but the ongoing trend.

We're not talking eating money and necessity but rather ransacking with untested products released unto the less knowing and using them as research guinea pigs and at the same time killing their future market.

Global marketplace has added great benefits to the world. I think competition is great and without it we would still be under GM thumb. I like to see five different cue making lathe manufactures but not at the price of ransacking their way through the tulips.

On the Ferrari dealership, I would take it and start taking their cars apart so I can learn how they make expensive quality cars. Start a racing team and kick their butts .Hire a bunch of smart Americans and set them loose on the development of American handmade cars. In fifty years who knows.

When the original question was asked in this forum about selling things I was the first one to say good idea. I received 20 IM's asking what I had to sell, which happen to be nothing.

It's come to be that almost every purchase is a hazzle, entangled in more hazzle. If it continues this way I will stop all transactions, and retract my vote.

Mario(who needs sleep)

Ah, I see said the blind-man.
Mario, you make an interesting rant, but to what avail?
Is it the person you object to or is it the policy?
I don't see that any laws are being broken and ethics are a personal thing.
We all have our own set.

As far as selling lathes to unsuspecting wannabe cue-makers, well, I'd say buyer beware.
1/2 of the buyers don't have 1/2 a clue about buying a lathe let alone how to operate it.
All they know is that they are going to buy a lathe and be a CM from here on out.
They want to make lots of money to feed their family and pay their bills but don't want
to get the education & experience to actually pull it off.
It's so much easier to just log-on to AZB and start asking questions.
Doesn't work that way. You either pay your dues or pay the price.
I have no sympathy for the whiners & criers. They did it to themselves by thinking they
could jump to the head of the class with short-cuts and rose colored glasses.
When the big dream hits the toilet, they start looking for someone to blame.
In the end, they do get some education. "Unsuspecting buyer's", not really. Just unrealistic.

I'm not so quick to blame the lathe seller. It's not his job to evaluate the buyer's credentials & experience.
Granted it would be to his advantage, so that he can prepare himself for the amount of questions on operation,
etc. that he will encounter but in the end, he's not selling an education, he's selling a tool.
It's up to the buyer to know how to use it.

As far as the Billiards cues, I believe that if there were sufficient market, CMs in this
country would be on it. As you've pointed-out, it's a very small niche market.
Dieckman did it and maybe a few others but they would be a select group.
Nobody's preventing American CMs from building Billiard cues. They just don't want to.

You made a statement that I now find interesting. I asked you about the Ferrari dealership and you responded by saying you'd keep the dealership but take one of the Ferraris apart to see why it's such a great car.
Then you'd build a car based on that gleaned knowledge.
Isn't that pretty much the same thing that the new lathe builders did to Chris Hightower?
They got a hold of one of his lathes and copied it, almost bolt for bolt.
So.........do you want to be the kettle or do you want to be the pot???

KJ

 

[Mr Hoppe]

Capitalism knows nothing about geography. I see no problem. US cue makers should be known as the best because of their quality and design, not because of politics or mandate.

As a customer, you cast a vote when you make a purchase. Vote for what is important to you.

 

[cueman]

Capitalism is a two way street. I never heard any American cuemaker complain when Japan was buying nearly every high dollar cue we could produce. Now that the Japan market is down I hear a lot of complaining about foreign cues being imported. But have we not been the exporters of quality cues for decades? And right along side of that our country has always been a consumer of foreign products like cues and such that were cheaper. So should we be against those who want to export to us? If we export and don't import there will be a different kind of trade unbalance.
Something that I think would be good for most Americans and Canadians would be to go on a mission trip or volunteer with a humantiarian group and go visit poorer countries. Just like us they are trying to survive the best they can. And what we would consider just getting by, most of them would consider it living in luxury. It also brings home the fact that we are no better than anyone else. We are all humans and just trying to do the best we can on this fallen planet. I know the rich take advantage of workers in many of those countries and therefore have tremendous advantages over us on selling prices. But my heart still goes out to the workers there that are doing what they have to in order to provide for their families. I do not know which lathe maker this thread was originally made for, but there are not many of us lathe makers. But I bet that if it is one of the well established ones that they export a good many lathes. I know since the dollar has weakened that I now export more lathes than I used to.
Politically and morally these things bring up some really tough issues and I do not know the answers and the more I think on these things the more questions I have instead of answers.

 

[JerseyBill]

Promotes foreign cues

Not to much info here. How did he promote, to what degree, and why do you think he should'nt? We sell Toyotas and a zillion other products? Do you dislike this person? Just asking? Need more input to get in your corner.

 

[Mcues]

Not to much info here. How did he promote, to what degree, and why do you think he should'nt? We sell Toyotas and a zillion other products? Do you dislike this person? Just asking? Need more input to get in your corner.

I actually like the guy..not personal. just seems insane to sell a machine that will eventually create a product that you are helping to destroy its market. A miniture example of the general business trend.

Mario