Our Pool Subculture-----Deceptive To Us and the Outside World

[JB Cases]

I'm glad you gave it some thought and decided to edit your original post.
There are a few more details we should iron out as well, for the record.

I am not sure who you are talking to here. If I edited a post in this thread then it was for grammar and not content.

Your ISOLATED example of a functioning billiards SOCIAL club in the USA is not something you can use to say that there is a thriving culture of such places and people. The club you reference is rare in the USA and is the exception rather than the rule.

Yes, home tables sell more than commercial tables. And THEN WHAT?

The home tables get used to pile laundry on.

UNLESS the person who owns that table ALSO participates in leagues or some other billiard activities OUTSIDE the home then it's unlikely that they are making any further contribution to the billiards economy after that initial purchase of the table. And again, we are not even speaking of which group spends more money here so even if your point is valid that home table buyers spend the most on pool it's irrelevant to the discussion.

This discussion is about whether the people who belong to the subculture of match-up players act differently when they are not in the pool room.

Let me clue you in on something as to your idea of bringing billiards down.

The two biggest drivers which brought pool and the billiard industry the most prosperity in the United States in the last 50 years were two movies about HUSTLING. The Hustler and The Color of Money

Ask your contact at Brunswick if he'd would have rather not had those movies made. Do you want to take a guess at how those two movies positively affected the prosperity of the Brunswick Billiard Corporation?

As for your insults and slurs I can see where the Gentlemen goes when he's trapped. So it seems to me that the proponent of the Gentlemen's Game takes the liberty to be an ass when he comes on a forum where his views and put downs are disagreed with. Very civil of you. If you are just the same in the "club" then I bet your clubmates find you insufferable but yet they tolerate you.

Good day Mr. Bond.

 

[jungledude]

Definetly a different culture

If anyone read my book, "The Green Felt Jungle", and don't realize that there is definetly a different type of human being in the pool world compared to the regular world they would't possess good reading comprehension because their are many cases in the book which is an accurate account of more than 40 years of pool gambling and it's unbelievable but lovable guys who play for money.

 

[Island Drive]

If anyone read my book, "The Green Felt Jungle", and don't realize that there is definetly a different type of human being in the pool world compared to the regular world they would't possess good reading comprehension because their are many cases in the book which is an accurate account of more than 40 years of pool gambling and it's unbelievable but lovable guys who play for money.

No matter what business your in, there will always be hustlers/scuffers/detectives/knockers/deadbeats/druggies/liars/cheats/hard workers/education and so forth, look at the political structure world wide as one simple example. I think the pool culture parallels life in all facets.

 

[iba7467]

When I am around my home boys we behave accordingly. Coworkers need a different vernacular. Same thing with a pool hall.

End of the day we all do this to some degree Crawfish, you kind of have to in order to survive.

You've got home boys? Now you bull sh**'n.

I think almost all of us are this way all the time. My daughter (17 years old) says all the time how she hates people being "fake". I told her that she doesn't have the street smarts to understand the world yet, apparently. I'm not one to change my ethics or my opinions to suit others but we must all edit ourselves to our situations. Not a single pool room discussion I have ever had ended in "why I really enjoyed that engaging discussion and am certainly glad we were both able to discover some new, interesting insights" nor have I ended a business discussion publicly counting the money.

 

[JoeW]

Ever notice that you can’t win an argument? And yet we have all changed our opinions about things over time. Why is that?

I call it the smoking gun. In the middle of an argument throw a good idea out (shoot the gun and throw it ont he floor or disown it). Let it lie there on the floor and walk away. If it is a good idea the other guy will pick up that smoking pistol. He won’t agree with you but he will pick up the gun. Course he has to wait two weeks before he can use your idea. He has to forget where the idea came from, then he has to make it his idea by changing something about the original idea.

In this way we argue all the time and we never lose, yet we change our opinions over time.

If you know what is going on, after awhile, you learn to just shoot the gun and walk away. Come back a month later and see what has changed.

BTW, if you argue too much or too strenuously it will take longer for the other guy to forget where the idea came from.

Unfortunately most of don't have the patience to wait nor sufficient respect for the other guy's ability to see the truth when it is staring at him and so we have to get louder -- louder is better for some folks, then they have to hear you -- right.

The Irish say, “Don’t get drunk and shoot at your land lord – ya’ll miss em.”

 

[JB Cases]

An argument is different from a discussion.

The other day I watched a video from TED where they had a mild debate about whether or not we should focus on building more nuclear reactors to solve the world's energy needs.

Before the debate they did an informal vote to see who was for it and who was against. About 75% were for and 25% against. The guy debating the FOR side is a prominent envronmentalist.

After the debate the audience shifted to about 60% for and 40% against.

If the debate had been framed in pointing fingers, casting blame and insults then it would have gone nowhere.

With civil discussion one can look at a point, pick it up and digest it and examine it without any aura of distaste or disdain for the person making it. When insults are tossed around along with the point then the discussion becomes a fight. At that point no one cares anymore about seeing the other side's point of view.

In my opinion of course.

 

[Rich93]

On the issue of private clubs vs. public rooms, I feel qualified to speak. They're not mutually exclusive. Many of the members of the Illinois Billiard Club, which Mr. Bond mentioned, also play at public rooms - Red Shoes probably being the most popular. That doesn't mean that we go there to gamble necessarily, but many of us do participate in their straight pool league and tournaments.

Most of the the players at IBC's Joe Diaz billiard tournament last weekend (also mentioned) also play at Chris's Billiards because that's where the serious three cushion players in Chicago congregate. There is another private club devoted to carom in Chicago (Felipe Razon club), but I believe most of their members also play at Chris's.

Of course private club members do help the billiard economy with respect to equipment. We all have cues, cases, gadgets, etc. Many of us have tables at home for practice (not for competition), and they need maintenance.

My main message is - those club members who are really serious about the game do get out and play in public rooms. And, anyway, there aren't that many private clubs out there. I truly don't think they take much business away from the public rooms.

 

[Mr. Bond]

As for your insults and slurs I can see where the Gentlemen goes when he's trapped.

Insults? Slurs? Are we all reading from the same thread here?
This isn't about you, and it never was. It's not about me either.
Furthermore, I've not said a word about you personally, other than your blanket statement was erronious. (insomuch as it included everyone)

If you are insulted at the prospect of someone suggesting that what you have posted is not entirely accurate:
A. that has nothing to do with me.
B. welcome to the internet.


Trapped? Don't be silly my good man. Such a thing doesnt exist.


So it seems to me that the proponent of the Gentlemen's Game takes the liberty to be an ass when he comes on a forum where his views and put downs are disagreed with. Very civil of you.

A. Your were met with the same amount of sarcasm and passion that you presented yourself. If you'd prefer not to hear sarcasm from me, don't come at me with sarcasm.

B. Yeah it was pretty civil actually, and a little bit humorous.
Maybe you should lighten up a little. I'm not here to steal lunches out of the fridge.

If you are just the same in the "club" then I bet your clubmates find you insufferable but yet they tolerate you.

Ouch. I'm insufferable. Oh golly what shall I do.

BTW - who said I'm a member of any club?


Good day Mr. Bond.

And a Jolly Good Day to you also Sir.
May your chalk always squeak and your balls always shine!

 

[JB Cases]

On the issue of private clubs vs. public rooms, I feel qualified to speak. They're not mutually exclusive. Many of the members of the Illinois Billiard Club, which Mr. Bond mentioned, also play at public rooms - Red Shoes probably being the most popular. That doesn't mean that we go there to gamble necessarily, but many of us do participate in their straight pool league and tournaments.

Most of the the players at IBC's Joe Diaz billiard tournament last weekend (also mentioned) also play at Chris's Billiards because that's where the serious three cushion players in Chicago congregate. There is another private club devoted to carom in Chicago (Felipe Razon club), but I believe most of their members also play at Chris's.

Of course private club members do help the billiard economy with respect to equipment. We all have cues, cases, gadgets, etc. Many of us have tables at home for practice (not for competition), and they need maintenance.

My main message is - those club members who are really serious about the game do get out and play in public rooms. And, anyway, there aren't that many private clubs out there. I truly don't think they take much business away from the public rooms.

The thread has gone way off the tracks when we start trying to figure out who spends more.

The point was that there is the culture of "pool gamblers" who hang out with each other and they try mildly to "get over" on each other and have their own language that is the same across America.

This is not the culture of people who hang out in private clubs.

 

[Mr. Bond]

On the issue of private clubs vs. public rooms, I feel qualified to speak. They're not mutually exclusive. Many of the members of the Illinois Billiard Club, which Mr. Bond mentioned, also play at public rooms - Red Shoes probably being the most popular. That doesn't mean that we go there to gamble necessarily, but many of us do participate in their straight pool league and tournaments.....

Hey Rich, good to see you. I Hope everything [at the Tourney] is running smooth for you guys...

I've been meaning to ask you - or one of the other guys, are yall playing on the 10footer in the tourney ?

 

[poolnoob]

If after 15 minutes of looking and you haven't found the sucker.....it's you.

That is a good one.

 

[Rich93]

Hey Rich, good to see you. I Hope everything [at the Tourney] is running smooth for you guys...

I've been meaning to ask you - or one of the other guys, are yall playing on the 10footer in the tourney ?

Yes, Jim put the three cushion rails back on the 10 footer, so the 10 foot pool table is history for now. The tourney went very well - we had 16 players, pretty good prize money (thanks in part to the cue raffle) and an exciting finish. I won't discuss the unpleasant subject of how I did personally.

 

[Rich93]

The thread has gone way off the tracks when we start trying to figure out who spends more.

The point was that there is the culture of "pool gamblers" who hang out with each other and they try mildly to "get over" on each other and have their own language that is the same across America.

This is not the culture of people who hang out in private clubs.

True enough. We don't gamble in the private club, not that I've ever seen anyway.

 

[crawfish]

Get'er back on the topic, please. And a "thanks" for that.

 

[Mr. Bond]

The Yale literary magazine, Volume 40, Issue 5 1875

 

[chalka99ict]

Living the deceived life

Ever see that 20 year old kid walking down the street. He is about five foot one inches tall. You can tell by his build that he lifts weights, probably takes growth hormones too. He has on that football shirt right out of the game with some quarterback’s number but you know he never played on anyone’s team cause he is just too short. He has those Nike running shoes, unlaced and the crotch of his pants is below his knees like a wannabe gang banger. The kid has that swagger about him like he has the nuts in life. He can’t be a gang banger because his clothes are simply too expensive and there is far too much effort placed in his appearance.

We look at him as he walks by, smile to ourselves and wonder if he knows that he is not fooling anyone. We wonder if he knows his ego is too big for his body and that all the show is just that. If his appearance is anything it shows a very insecure person. We don’t even have to hear him talk and only hope that he doesn’t start woofing cause there really isn’t any substance to back it up.

I am describing a real little guy that you have seen and he is a stereotype. That swagger and false bravado can be seen in any pool room where these “little” guys measure their self worth by other people’s statements or the few bucks they robbed from some unsuspecting half wit. The whole thing is pretty sad and sometimes I just want to tell that wannabe hustler to get a life.

In various guises, you can see him in most any pool room -- and he doesn't think he is a nit.

Bravo. It's not about excellent pool, it's about becoming something.

 

[JAM]

I notice this is an old thread, but the topic is still prevalent. The on-the-road pool lifestyle is over, thanks to the advent of the Internet. Gone are the road warriors and gunslingers of yesteryear who traveled cross-country, hitting every town possible, hoping to make a score.

Professional pool is the veritable canary in the coal mine as far as sports is concerned. The good news may be that the American canary is still alive, perhaps gasping for breath a little bit, a little emaciated, but alive. The canary is awaiting the BCA, our representative governing body in pool on a worldwide level, to come rescue it. Otherwise, the poor canary will drop dead.

Much like croquet, pool may survive as a recreational game to be played socially. Though it used to be a gentleman's calling, today is a new generation with females playing pool as well as their male counterparts. Regional tours, leagues, and weekend tournaments is where American pool seems to have the most popularity. This is the American pool culture today.

 

[MitchAlsup]

I totally agree with you. Our subculture at least the gambling and handicapped tournaments/leagues are geared towards winning by whatever means and not revealing your ability until the trap is sprung.

This is what is different between Billiards and Golf.

 

[Mitchxout]

This is what is different between Billiards and Golf.

Don't think for a minute that golfers aren't sandbaggers.

 

[Okie]

This is what is different between Billiards and Golf.

Every handicapped golf tournament is exactly like every handicapped pool tournament. Matching up in pool is exactly like matching up in golf. Golfers just wear nicer clothes...

IMO the difference between golf and billiards lie at the professional level. Pool needs an Arnold Palmer! He was not the greatest player ever but he was the greatest personality ever!