Pattern-racking? Is there such a thing?

inside_english

inside_english

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is a mini-debate going on here in Maryland about certain players "pattern-racking" during matches.

Other than the one in front and nine in the middle, and the rack being straight with all the balls frozen, what else is necessary?

If I want to place the other balls in the same order from rack to rack is this not allowed?
 
Under WPA (world-standardized) rules, pattern racking is not allowed:

2.2 Nine Ball Rack
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a diamond shape, with the one ball at the apex of the diamond and on the foot spot and the nine ball in the middle of the diamond. The other balls will be placed in the diamond without purposeful or intentional pattern. (See Regulation 4, Racking / Tapping of Balls.)​
 
I was taught to place the 3 in the 2nd row and the 2 in the 4th row so I've done it out of habit forever. To be honest though, I think there's a large degree of randomness in every rack of pool so these patterns aren't as effective as one would think. I would love to see a scientific test where a Sardo rack was used and an "Iron Byron" type of device was used to break from exactly the same location and the same speed and track the final location of each ball over maybe 100 breaks. Or maybe that's already been done... :cool:
 
Yes it is a problem with patterning racking!!!! The last time i gambled with somebody with rack your own he racked them 1,2,3,4,5,9,6,7,8 in a diamond pattern.. Well he broke and ran two racks out the gate after a soft controlled break so... I told him no more rack your own and won the set.

The was one other time where I was palying in a pro event (which will remain nameless) where me and my opponent decide to rack our own after dealing with a bad racking area. Well guess what??? He racked the balls from 1-8 in the same manner and broke soft!!! Now normaly i would've said something but i figured if he had to result to pattern racking then he was worried... Therefore building my confidence. I just found it offensive to SO -CALLED cheat by pattern racking then just throw the balls in at random. I lost and it had nothing to do with the rack (he never tied racks together) but it was the act or DECISION to rack in a SO-CALLED cheating or racking PATTERN.

Yes it is true... on softer breaks with the balls in certain positions in 9-ball you can control the way the balls lay on the break.

Corey Deuel is the MAIN reason for the BREAK rule!!! No soft breaks is because of Corey. Im pretty sure it was Billiard Digest that showed 10 or more of Corey's breaks where the balls ended up almost in the same exact positions on EVERY rack. Remember!!! ALMOST the exact position!!!

This is why in most tournaments they have a now soft break rule :rolleyes:

All in all anybody that racks the rack 1-8 can be seen as a cheater BUT!!!!!.... If its rack your own you cant complain now can you?? Just out play the bastard... Win and kick him in straight in his balls and tell him to go "F" himself :thumbup2:
 
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cookie man said:
If your playing rack your own the non racker should put the balls in the rack.
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Then that wouldnt be rack your own... How about you just agree to have no pattern racking?? Thats what i tell anyone i chose to play rack yoru own with from now on. You dont like it?? Then ill rack for you simple as that ;)
 
I have an OCD rack in 9 ball, where I lay them out in odds order, then evens, and no balls touch any other that is numerically next to it (1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8). It's a pattern, but not one that I can tell benefits one person or the other. Interesting stuff about the patterns and soft breaking in this thread that I'd never heard or considered.
 
RunoutJJ said:
Then that wouldnt be rack your own... How about you just agree to have no pattern racking?? Thats what i tell anyone i chose to play rack yoru own with from now on. You dont like it?? Then ill rack for you simple as that ;)
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But it does eliminate slack racks which are huge problem in league play.
 
OneIron said:
But it does eliminate slack racks which are huge problem in league play.
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Funny but when i played league i always racked my own because it was in option in the APA. Plus i knew i was getting a good and tight rack everytime i broke!!!! Funny but if my opponent let me rack my own most of the time he or she wanted me to rack THEIR RACK!!!!
munted.gif
:lol:

I didnt care about racking the whole time but I knew that I was getting a GOOD rack everytime I broke where as he... may have had a loose rack at anytime. Mind you I dont fix or jimmy racks for my advantage (no worth in winning now is it... Especially in league play :rolleyes:) but I enjoyed kicking that ass when they made me rack their racks :lol:
 
RunoutJJ said:
Funny but when i played league i always racked my own because it was in option in the APA. Plus i knew i was getting a good and tight rack everytime i broke!!!! Funny but if my opponent let me rack my own most of the time he or she wanted me to rack THEIR RACK!!!!
munted.gif
:lol:

I didnt care about racking the whole time but I knew that I was getting a GOOD rack everytime I broke where as he... may have had a loose rack at anytime. Mind you I dont fix or jimmy racks for my advantage (no worth in winning now is it... Especially in league play :rolleyes:) but I enjoyed kicking that ass when they made me rack their racks :lol:
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APA wouldn't let us rack our own when I played. Maybe that's changed...
 
OneIron said:
I was taught to place the 3 in the 2nd row and the 2 in the 4th row so I've done it out of habit forever. To be honest though, I think there's a large degree of randomness in every rack of pool so these patterns aren't as effective as one would think. I would love to see a scientific test where a Sardo rack was used and an "Iron Byron" type of device was used to break from exactly the same location and the same speed and track the final location of each ball over maybe 100 breaks. Or maybe that's already been done... :cool:
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Yes, it's been done. You can get Joe Tucker's "Racking Secrets" DVD.

Dr. Dave also has info about it. Here's some of it:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-89.htm


Pattern racking is illegal, except for some reason under APA rules. I suppose they only allow it to avoid arguments. It is almost impossible to prove and very easy to deny because a player can use several patterns and vary which side of the table they break from. Two guys matching up can agree to anything they want but if you are playing in a tournament, supposedly by the rules, it is illegal. However, both Dr. Dave's stuff and Joe Tucker's DVD is good info to have in your memory banks so you can analyze the rack that is given to you and and make it work to your benefit as well as to be able to detect if someone is pattern racking against you.

BTW, opponent rack doesn't get rid of pattern racking because there is both defensive as well as offensive ways to pattern rack.
 
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Pattern racking in 9 ball isn't that huge of an advantage, or at least it doesn't seem so to me. I've gone with random racking and pattern racking, both without the use of a soft break and couldn't see much of a difference.

On the other hand I see a huge advantage to using pattern racks for 10 ball and higher....particularly 15 ball rotation. Pattern racking 15 ball rotation makes that game incredibly easier.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
Yes, it's been done. You can get Joe Tucker's "Racking Secrets" DVD.

Dr. Dave also has info about it. Here's some of it:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-89.htm


Pattern racking is illegal, except for some reason under APA rules. I suppose they only allow it to avoid arguments. It is almost impossible to prove and very easy to deny because a player can use seveal patterns and vary which side of the table they break from. Two guys matching up can agree to anything they want but if you are playing in a tournament, supposedly by the rules, it is illegal. However, both Dr. Dave's stuff and Joe Tucker's DVD is good info to have in your memory banks so you can analyze the rack that is given to you and and make it work to your benefit as well as to be able to detect if someone is pattern racking against you.

BTW, opponent rack doesn't get rid of pattern racking because there is both defensive as well as offensive ways to pattern rack.
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Appreciate that. There is a wealth of info on this forum. I may just have to pay for a membership. :cool:
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
It is almost impossible to prove and very easy to deny because a player can use several patterns and vary which side of the table they break from.
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This is the million dollar statement when it comes to pattern racking. The result being since it's impossible to prove we need to just forget enforcing this rule all together-- I don't think it's a good rule myself. What may be random to one perhaps isn't random to another; the random rule potentially facilitates arguments. There was a guy on here a while back who had the idea to spin the balls in the rack (or something) to achieve a random rack.

I think people need to learn the rack, and probabilities where ball rack positions will end up after the break and stop complaining about people pattern racking on them. Fight fire with fire. The more you know about pool, the better, and there is no harm in learning the rack well, no matter what your opinion.

I just can't end without saying: I hear this "he ran 3 on me with these pattern racks" AS IF this same guy would not put a package on his opponents if he possibly could using the same alleged techniques. I think the actual truth in most of these cases is one guy plays good and probably deserves to win, and the other guy simply wants to complain about something.
 
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Here's the pattern I use when playing rack your own:


1
2 X
X 9 X
8 X
X

Here's the one for loser racks:

1
8 X
X 9 X
2 X
X

And I make no apologies. :)

(Also, the racks I posted were shaped perfectly when I typed them, but the forum software crammed them together. Not my fault.)
 
The Chinchilla said:
This is the million dollar statement when it comes to pattern racking. The result being since it's impossible to prove we need to just forget enforcing this rule all together-- I don't think it's a good rule myself. What may be random to one perhaps isn't random to another; the random rule potentially facilitates arguments. There was a guy on here a while back who had the idea to spin the balls in the rack (or something) to achieve a random rack.

I think people need to learn the rack, and probabilities where ball rack positions will end up after the break and stop complaining about people pattern racking on them. Fight fire with fire. The more you know about pool, the better, and there is no harm in learning the rack well, no matter what your opinion.
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While we agree the rule is largely unenforceable, we apparently disagree on what to do about this. First off, you say "What may be random to one perhaps isn't random to another; the random rule potentially facilitates arguments". This is really besides the point because nowhere in the rule does it say anything about "random". What is says is:

"The other balls will be placed in the diamond without purposeful or intentional pattern.

This is pretty clear, we all know what it means.

You said that you don't think it's a good rule so we should all just fight fire with fire and learn how to do it. This is where I disagree with you. I don't believe we should only play by the rules we like and break the ones we don't like. Just because it is difficult to get caught to me is not a justifiable reason to get away with it. To my mind the proper way to deal with a rule like this that is difficult to enforce is to play with honor. I do believe knowledge of pattern racking is useful to have so you can take advantage of anything that exists in the rack legally and to detect if someone is doing it to you. Even if you can't prove it, it will tell you something about the character of the person you are playing, and that may be useful information.

The solution if you don't like the rule is to petition to have it changed.
 
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inside_english said:
There is a mini-debate going on here in Maryland about certain players "pattern-racking" during matches.

Other than the one in front and nine in the middle, and the rack being straight with all the balls frozen, what else is necessary?

If I want to place the other balls in the same order from rack to rack is this not allowed?
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WOW, talk about beating a dead horse??
 
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