Pattern racking

[TATE]

LOL

LOL but I was good enough to beat kiamco. Shane has never beat kiamco

I watched this match. Donny doesn't have to defend his play. He played incredible. I think it was evenly matched and Shane out-lasted him. It's hard for anyone to concentrate at that level for that long - it becomes an endurance contest. Donny had the edge on the first day.

Donny is the best rack your own controlled breaker on the planet. What he knows has stumped everyone I know and there is huge skill and knowledge involved.

Roy - I don't think the pattern itself matters much. Getting on the one ball, making the wing ball, and spreading the balls cleanly from the racking area is the key.

The pattern is incidental. It just makes for a little less cue ball travel. Donny is good enough to run any random table with a shot on the one, the wing ball down, and the balls spread out.

Chris

 

[Mowem down]

Im getting in late on this so sorry if this has already been said 20 times but i use the same rack( i learned it on a Pat Flemming tape) every time to make the chance of a hard lay out more likely( according to the tape anyway ). I have often thought I might fair better against the ghost if I used a differnt pattern, I sure do find myself having a long way to get from the 1 to the 2. I always put it in the 4th row never in the back.

 

[Johnnyt]

Im getting in late on this so sorry if this has already been said 20 times but i use the same rack( i learned it on a Pat Flemming tape) every time to make the chance of a hard lay out more likely( according to the tape anyway ). I have often thought I might fair better against the ghost if I used a differnt pattern, I sure do find myself having a long way to get from the 1 to the 2. I always put it in the 4th row never in the back.

I rack the 2-ball in the 4th row right side looking from the head of the table. I break from anywhere on the right side depending on the humidity. About 90% of the time I make a wing ball, the 1-ball either goes in the left side pocket or up somewhere near the left corner at head of table. The 2 comes up by the right hand corner head pocket and the 3 is in the middle of table for a shot in either side or corners depending on how I play the 2 and where I need to be on the 4. After that it's a cake walk. This is on a souped up Valley and the big key is the speed and hit on the 1-ball. Johnnyt

 

[cranegod1]

LOL

LOL but I was good enough to beat kiamco. Shane has never beat kiamco

Yeah, but you didn't beat Shane. Just like I said.

 

[tigerseye]

This is why 10-ball was added... It seems more difficult to make a ball on the break unless u got a hammer break... Don't ya think or is there a way off making some kind of wing ball in it too??

 

[Jason Robichaud]

This is why 10-ball was added... It seems more difficult to make a ball on the break unless u got a hammer break... Don't ya think or is there a way off making some kind of wing ball in it too??

The two balls behind the 1 in the side... right speed and contact the go more times than not.

 

[donny mills]

Yeah, but you didn't beat Shane. Just like I said.

True... but I'm not the one with a C5 old body style vette dressed up to look like a newer one as my avatar.

 

[8ball-alex]

True... but I'm not the one with a C5 old body style vette dressed up to look like a newer one as my avatar.

lol!...not the best comeback-answer.

 

[cranegod1]

True... but I'm not the one with a C5 old body style vette dressed up to look like a newer one as my avatar.

That is a C6 moron.

 

[donny mills]

That is a C6 moron.

From a distance the steering wheel looks like a c5. Plus I figured anybody who puts lambo doors on one must have the old one... instead you could've bought a new corolla and put big signs on the doors that say LOOK AT ME. LOOK AT ME.

 

[cranegod1]

From a distance the steering wheel looks like a c5. Plus I figured anybody who puts lambo doors on one must have the old one... instead you could've bought a new corolla and put big signs on the doors that say LOOK AT ME. LOOK AT ME.

you must know a lot more about corollas than vettes.

 

[stevekur1]

Well, the Donny Mills-Shane Van Boening match is finally over, and I have to say that I HATE pattern racking, it's the most BORING thing I've ever seen.

I can't stand it, and I hope that people never agrees to play it again. It's not what 9-ball is about.

Pattern racking is illegal, according to the official rules by WPA (world pool association, www.wpa-pool.com) all balls is supposed to be racked randomly. If players start doing this shit all over, it will finally kill 9-ball for good. No one wants to watch people break soft and play the same balls in same pockets with same position over and over again.

Thank god that no tournament (yet) allows pattern rackings.

I also have to add that I was really dissapointed to see that there was a column in the latest magazine of InsidePOOL (the one with Borana on the cover) about pattern racking, where the writer (bob?) encouraged people to start using pattern racking in 9-ball.

I am extremely happy that Shane changed his break and finally turned this around. I didn't see the end of the match, but I guess that he was still pattern-racking though, but the tables will atleast not look the same again and again when breaking harder. Different table layouts makes it more entertaining for the spectators, and demands more skills from both players.

I will never ever buy a PPV for a rack your own 9-ball match again. It was real BORING, and a pain in the ass, and the reason I watched as much as I did, I watched like 4-5 h total, was because I had bets on this match.

The only thing that made me smile from this match is that I won $ 1 on Shane.

Then again, I have to applaud TAR for putting this up. It was a great production, and I loved to be able to adjust the screen. Thanks TAR.

This is in no way dis-respecting Donny Mills. He is extremely skillful, and I doubt that anyone is as successful as him breaking. 82 of 83 wing-ball percentage is just sick. That truly is art! What I dislike is only the boring, illegal pattern racking.

i totally agree, it seems like every rack the balls were in the same position.....
i had a hard time staying awake for this one, the only reason i woke up is the DVD Drawer opened up on my pc, prompting me to insert the next disc....

Steve

 

[jacob]

I purchased the Donnie vs. Shane match on TAR. I have never seen nine ball played so perfect as when donnie made HIS break and ran out. Since that match I have spent more table time trying to duplicate his outstanding break that my back hurts. Donnie in my opinion has a unbelieveable skill in rack your own nine ball. I can't believe real pool players would knock his skill. If I would have seen him at the Derby ( the only place I might run into him) I would have offered him $$$ to give me lessons on the break in nine ball.

 

[CreeDo]

I'm watching it now and I agree it's kind of dull. Part of that is knowing who wins. But 17 dvds of soft-break 9 ball is already gonna get old. Mix in pattern racking so that a lot of the outs look familiar...

Still, I get a big kick out of watching shane and his 2-foot bridge. I try to imitate it and I'm lucky to hit the correct half of the ball. Donny was also a treat to watch. Some people seem to talk about him like he's just a regular AA player with a good gaff game, but he looks to me like a true pro who is getting better year after year against some of the toughest on the planet.

I'm lazy to double check but shane's pattern definitely didn't have the 2 ball at the bottom, at least not in the first 50 or so games. I liked donny's pattern better because the 2 ended up near the 1 at the head of the table, whereas shane's pattern often required some work to get on the 2.

It makes a lot of sense to me to keep them together. When you don't have to move the cue ball much from the 1 to the 2, you can go from decent shape on the 1 to good shape on the 2 to great shape on the rest of the rack. It takes less time to get your cue ball on that string.

As for the legality/ethics of pattern racking... your job is to win while staying within the rules. It's up to players to spell out those rules in a set or in a tournament. Anything not specifically banned is fair game.

 

[stevekur1]

i do not argue that they are BOTH True Champions..... its just that Pattern Racking is too boring for me to watch !

Steve

 

[master9baller]

I pattern rack because it definitely impacts the game, other players do it and I don't view it as immoral. I feel it's just another facet of the game to be learned if a player chooses to do so. It can make a significant difference in your winning percentage against A -AA talent. When playing AAA-pro as a A-AA you had better know this information.

That said a lot of pattern racking is thrown by poor table conditions in pool halls especially when the tables in a room aren't consistent with themselves. On new tournament tables with soft breaking pattern racking can influence win percentages by 10% or more.

For me and the table I routinely play on in local rooms I believe it can increase my winning percentage 5-8% when I rack for an opponent, certainly enough to be the difference between winning $ and losing. This is especially so when balls are spotted.

Consider this, I was playing a local phenom of ours who is pro caliber and getting the 7 and 8 spotted in a tournament. I place them like this on his break

1
3 6
2 9 4
7 8
5

Why?
-Foremost the 7 and 8 are most likely to end up in front of the corner pockets at the foot rail. In place for early + easy winning combination.
- The 1, 3, 6 + 5 tend to go up table, the 2, 4 7 +8 down table. This makes his run out harder.

This player breaks and runs out 25-35 % of the time from everywhere and can string 4-6 packs regularly.

He notices my racking and complains. My response rack your own and I'll rack my own. Problem is that I will rack the 7 and 8 the same spots, break make a ball and have easy combos frequently. Given that he concedes and lets me continue to rack for him.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I purchased the Donnie vs. Shane match on TAR. I have never seen nine ball played so perfect as when donnie made HIS break and ran out. Since that match I have spent more table time trying to duplicate his outstanding break that my back hurts. Donnie in my opinion has a unbelieveable skill in rack your own nine ball. I can't believe real pool players would knock his skill. If I would have seen him at the Derby ( the only place I might run into him) I would have offered him $$$ to give me lessons on the break in nine ball.

Are you referring only to pattern racking here or something else as well? Because aside from pattern racking, I don't understand why it matters who is racking the balls.

As for the legality/ethics of pattern racking... your job is to win while staying within the rules. It's up to players to spell out those rules in a set or in a tournament. Anything not specifically banned is fair game.

CreeDo, as you know, I enjoy your posts. You are well spoken and I look forward to your contributions. But I'm not sure what you are saying here. In the first part ("your job is to win while staying within the rules"): pattern racking is clearly against the rules of 9 Ball reflected in any of the major sources for the rules of the game (i.e. the WPA rules). So "as for the legalities / ethics of pattern racking", are you saying it is OK or not in your view, given that it is against the rules?

As for the second part of your post, do you really mean that players need to discuss EVERY rule they are going to play by, and anything NOT specifically discussed beforehand is fair game? If so this would take forever and I doubt any matches would ever get started.

Let me use an extreme (and admittedly silly) example. Say you and I are matching up. I run out to the nine and then miss. You and I probably didn't discuss up front what happens in this situation. Can I have another turn and try again to sink the nine for the win or do I HAVE to sit down. I mean since we didn't discuss this beforehand is it fair game for me to take a do over?

I think you know what I'm saying. I agree that two guys matching up can agree to play any old way they want. No problem with that. But I would suggest that really it is only necessary to discuss up front any rules that are to be waived. If something was not expressly agreed to beforehand, then the rules of the game should apply. I was in a match against a guy a few months ago. He was on two fouls and I hooked him and said "you're on two". He said "You didn't tell me we were playing that way." I said to him I wasn't aware that I had to since there is a 3 foul rule in 9 ball and we are playing by the rules, aren't we? He agreed.

Now this is all general discussion. This thread was dug up from the grave so I didn't go back an review all the posts. But as it relates specifically to the Donnie/Shane match, IIRC Donny inferred that pattern racking was allowed in the match. I don't recall him specifically saying that he and Shane discussed it and agreed to it, but he definitely suggested it was allowed. That being the case there is no problem. Pattern rack to your heart's content.

But I have to tell you, if I'm in a match with a guy and he pattern racks against me without my prior consent, we're gonna lock horns.

 

[Vahmurka]

In the first part ("your job is to win while staying within the rules"): pattern racking is clearly against the rules of 9 Ball reflected in any of the major sources for the rules of the game (i.e. the WPA rules).

I was just passing by and wanted to link to the rules at WPA site, but it's down! But racking balls in any certain pattern is prohibited by the rules, that's correct.

 

[CreeDo]

Thanks for the props DPP. I like your posts too.

You mentioned pattern racking is against the rules in WPA. I looked it up in BCA rules and they also stress random racking. So, yes, don't do it if you're playing a tournament using those rules. It's against the rules.

---

Let me use an extreme (and admittedly silly) example. Say you and I are matching up. I run out to the nine and then miss. You and I probably didn't discuss up front what happens in this situation. Can I have another turn and try again to sink the nine for the win or do I HAVE to sit down. I mean since we didn't discuss this beforehand is it fair game for me to take a do over?

That's against the rules =)

From WPA official rules:
2.5 Continuing Play
...If the shooter fails to pocket a ball or fouls, play passes to the other player

---

I do get your point, and if you spell out every little nitpicky thing... you could spend 20 minutes just working out everything from basic stuff everyone knows (BIH... something must hit a rail... etc.) to somewhat less common stuff (push-out, cannot call safe while pocketing a ball)... to detailed stuff (pattern rack legal or not, jump cue legal or not, break from the box or anywhere, etc.)

Such a conversation would get very old. So players match up assuming the other guy is a gentleman and flexible and willing to be fair.

I NEVER assume a specific ruleset like WPA when I match up with someone, and you could go your whole life playing sets with guys in bars and poolhalls who haven't heard of WPA. Even players who have heard of WPA or BCA sometimes voluntarily make changes to these rules during sets (for example no jump cues). Therefore, I do not automatically assume pattern racking is forbidden.

My feeling is... most of the profitable 'tricks' for 9 ball are well known at a high level, so players should work out whether these tricks are allowed. For example if it's rack your own, I will automatically ask if 9 in the lower corners doesn't count.

If you don't think to ask, you can't just take your money off the light or ask for a partial refund when you notice the pattern three games into the set. It's pretty obscure compared to rules you automatically expect everyone to know, like "you must hit the lowest ball first". I'm not even sure why you'd get mad at the guy who's using it. Because he's doing something you haven't mastered yet? Because he failed to go by WPA rules? You think he's trying to pull a fast one and assumed you wouldn't notice?

 

[backplaying]

Donnie and Shane both knew the rules they would play under. The truth is Shane out ran the nutts in my opinion. I also watched about half and know Donnie will propably tell you he didn't play good. If he will play the ghost this way and played 90% of his top speed I don't think anyone would have a chance to beat him there on that table under the same rules.I also don't understand how anyone could even say the word cheat in this match. That being said, Donnie, you still have action playing Henny on a barbox!