Pattern racking

[greyghost]

By the way, both players were pattern racking, shane's soft break just wasn't working as well as Danny's, so he went back to what he did best...break'em hard.

Donny's Pattern:

1
7 4
5 9 3
6 8
2

Shane's Pattern:

1
7 3
8 9 6
5 4
2

My own personal pattern rack against opponents is:

1
8 3
6 9 4
5 7
2

To me it's more about understanding where each ball in the rack is expected to travel based on the speed of the cue ball during the break. So even if my opponent pattern racks against me, I can at least come close to determining where the balls where lie after the break.

I pratice and rack opponents just like you except i put the 7 in the rear and the 5/2 together

That pattern makes you go up and down the table more to get position, something many players have problems with on the big table, its also a boon for me since I do it to myself in pratice so Im used to it. You see a lot of weaker players dog on the last few balls having to go up and down.

 

[enzo]

Well, the Donny Mills-Shane Van Boening match is finally over, and I have to say that I HATE pattern racking, it's the most BORING thing I've ever seen.

I can't stand it, and I hope that people never agrees to play it again. It's not what 9-ball is about.

Pattern racking is illegal, according to the official rules by WPA (world pool association, www.wpa-pool.com) all balls is supposed to be racked randomly. If players start doing this shit all over, it will finally kill 9-ball for good. No one wants to watch people break soft and play the same balls in same pockets with same position over and over again.

Thank god that no tournament (yet) allows pattern rackings.

I also have to add that I was really dissapointed to see that there was a column in the latest magazine of InsidePOOL (the one with Borana on the cover) about pattern racking, where the writer (bob?) encouraged people to start using pattern racking in 9-ball.

I am extremely happy that Shane changed his break and finally turned this around. I didn't see the end of the match, but I guess that he was still pattern-racking though, but the tables will atleast not look the same again and again when breaking harder. Different table layouts makes it more entertaining for the spectators, and demands more skills from both players.

I will never ever buy a PPV for a rack your own 9-ball match again. It was real BORING, and a pain in the ass, and the reason I watched as much as I did, I watched like 4-5 h total, was because I had bets on this match.

The only thing that made me smile from this match is that I won $ 1 on Shane.

Then again, I have to applaud TAR for putting this up. It was a great production, and I loved to be able to adjust the screen. Thanks TAR.

This is in no way dis-respecting Donny Mills. He is extremely skillful, and I doubt that anyone is as successful as him breaking. 82 of 83 wing-ball percentage is just sick. That truly is art! What I dislike is only the boring, illegal pattern racking.

make sure you get mad at the tournament officials, and not the players. i think you know this.

here are the facts with pattern racking.

1) it is not enforceable-- this is really complicated, but the short version is that first you have to define pattern racking (go on, anybody throw out a definition). second, you'd have to then have somebody OBJECTIVELY deciding who is pattern racking, and who isn't. this would be impossible to do fairly, because the whole point of pattern racking is to get say the 12345 uptable, and the 6789 downtable, a savvy player can just switch the position of say the 2 and the 3 (yet get the same effect), or the 4 and the 5. this would throw off any "pattern." there is no way to fairly and objectively enforce this, i guess you just have to take my word on it. you'd have to have a computer analyzing the racks to do it fairly. in short, you may punish one guy during a tournament, while another guy goes unscathed, but perhaps the guy who went unscathed pattern racked even more.

2) the rule stating that the balls need to be racked randomly is dubious at best. did you know that no human has EVER put 9 balls in a rack COMPLETELY 100% at random!! I teach math, so i know you may have to trust me, but it's true. Even if you were trying your best to do something at random, you didn't. It is not your fault, but there are laws that state right when you watch something you have put your human influence on it, and thus have created a non random pattern. Maybe there are balls out of round and to get a tight rack you need to put a certain ball behind the one (a pattern). maybe the ball return slot puts the balls in a certain order, and that order extends up to the rack somehow (a pattern). maybe from your past pattern racking days you got used to putting the 3 by the one, not intentional, but a pattern.

point is, you'd have to define how much of a pattern each rack is somehow, and it would have to be based on either all the players past racks, or all his racks for that tournament to determine if there was a pattern, and if the pattern met a certain criterion.... like say, there is a 75% probability that this rack is a pattern rack.

i do teach math, i swear to god, and i can just say-- if you'll trust me-- that you cant enforce this rule fairly, and that they either need to change the wording of the random racking rule and find a way to objectively enforce it, or just let players rack how they want (this is the preferred route).

 

[ShootingArts]

or the most reasonable option . . .

Actually there is a better and fairer option than either you have suggested, set pattern racking. Have only two legal racking patterns, the standard pattern and the mirror image of that pattern so there is no advantage to breaking from one side of the table or the other.

This is easily controlled and fair to all.

Hu

make sure you get mad at the tournament officials, and not the players. i think you know this.

here are the facts with pattern racking.

1) it is not enforceable-- this is really complicated, but the short version is that first you have to define pattern racking (go on, anybody throw out a definition). second, you'd have to then have somebody OBJECTIVELY deciding who is pattern racking, and who isn't. this would be impossible to do fairly, because the whole point of pattern racking is to get say the 12345 uptable, and the 6789 downtable, a savvy player can just switch the position of say the 2 and the 3 (yet get the same effect), or the 4 and the 5. this would throw off any "pattern." there is no way to fairly and objectively enforce this, i guess you just have to take my word on it. you'd have to have a computer analyzing the racks to do it fairly. in short, you may punish one guy during a tournament, while another guy goes unscathed, but perhaps the guy who went unscathed pattern racked even more.

2) the rule stating that the balls need to be racked randomly is dubious at best. did you know that no human has EVER put 9 balls in a rack COMPLETELY 100% at random!! I teach math, so i know you may have to trust me, but it's true. Even if you were trying your best to do something at random, you didn't. It is not your fault, but there are laws that state right when you watch something you have put your human influence on it, and thus have created a non random pattern. Maybe there are balls out of round and to get a tight rack you need to put a certain ball behind the one (a pattern). maybe the ball return slot puts the balls in a certain order, and that order extends up to the rack somehow (a pattern). maybe from your past pattern racking days you got used to putting the 3 by the one, not intentional, but a pattern.

point is, you'd have to define how much of a pattern each rack is somehow, and it would have to be based on either all the players past racks, or all his racks for that tournament to determine if there was a pattern, and if the pattern met a certain criterion.... like say, there is a 75% probability that this rack is a pattern rack.

i do teach math, i swear to god, and i can just say-- if you'll trust me-- that you cant enforce this rule fairly, and that they either need to change the wording of the random racking rule and find a way to objectively enforce it, or just let players rack how they want (this is the preferred route).

 

[SKILLZELITE]

I dont care how there racked ,so long as there tight..

 

[gunzby]

I've never pattern racked....not even in practice. I always figured that I would never do it playing someone in a tournament, or otherwise so why bother getting into the habit.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

At this point I'm not even concerned if it is enforceable or whether it can be mathematically proven that a player is pattern racking. Forget for a moment about whether it can be proved to the point that you can impose a penalty on a player.

Regardless of that, it is not that difficult for a knowledgeable observer to notice a guy pattern racking. Certain balls seem to fall in the same relative position time after time, and every time they throw the balls in the rack there is a prolonged shifting of balls from one spot to another until they finally have them in the place they want.

John Schmidt was a perfect example in his match on the AZB stream today of how to rack. Throw the balls in, put the one in front, exchange the center ball with the 9 ball, tighten them up and go.

Regardless of being able to enforce the rule, to me it is a matter of personal character whether one chooses to intentionally break the rules. It saddens me that there are more than just a few top level players that will do just that, and that the sport in general seems to turn a blind eye.

 

[softshot]

make sure you get mad at the tournament officials, and not the players. i think you know this.

here are the facts with pattern racking.

1) it is not enforceable-- this is really complicated, but the short version is that first you have to define pattern racking (go on, anybody throw out a definition). second, you'd have to then have somebody OBJECTIVELY deciding who is pattern racking, and who isn't. this would be impossible to do fairly, because the whole point of pattern racking is to get say the 12345 uptable, and the 6789 downtable, a savvy player can just switch the position of say the 2 and the 3 (yet get the same effect), or the 4 and the 5. this would throw off any "pattern." there is no way to fairly and objectively enforce this, i guess you just have to take my word on it. you'd have to have a computer analyzing the racks to do it fairly. in short, you may punish one guy during a tournament, while another guy goes unscathed, but perhaps the guy who went unscathed pattern racked even more.

2) the rule stating that the balls need to be racked randomly is dubious at best. did you know that no human has EVER put 9 balls in a rack COMPLETELY 100% at random!! I teach math, so i know you may have to trust me, but it's true. Even if you were trying your best to do something at random, you didn't. It is not your fault, but there are laws that state right when you watch something you have put your human influence on it, and thus have created a non random pattern. Maybe there are balls out of round and to get a tight rack you need to put a certain ball behind the one (a pattern). maybe the ball return slot puts the balls in a certain order, and that order extends up to the rack somehow (a pattern). maybe from your past pattern racking days you got used to putting the 3 by the one, not intentional, but a pattern.

point is, you'd have to define how much of a pattern each rack is somehow, and it would have to be based on either all the players past racks, or all his racks for that tournament to determine if there was a pattern, and if the pattern met a certain criterion.... like say, there is a 75% probability that this rack is a pattern rack.

i do teach math, i swear to god, and i can just say-- if you'll trust me-- that you cant enforce this rule fairly, and that they either need to change the wording of the random racking rule and find a way to objectively enforce it, or just let players rack how they want (this is the preferred route).

just to step out of the box..

why not use a random number generator??

the programming is so simple the app should run on a cell phone... you wouldn't even need a smart phone..

just a computer in the building would suffice..

some bright guy at diamond could put an LCD screen on the foot of the table...

something that tells you how to rack.. it's only 9 balls well 7.. 2 balls go to the same place every time.. both players watch while one pushes the button.. and the order that comes up is the order you rack...


problem solved..

 

[onepocketron]

I agree with Enzo. The people running the tourney have control, and if they allow pattern racking to occur, guys/gals are going to take advantage of it.
I was at a tourny a couple of weeks ago, and one of the pro players was pattern racking. His opponent complained, took it to the people running the show, and they said it was ok. They don't have to worry about me coming back again. It was rediculous.

 

[RD3P]

i understand the views against it....but if your good/smart enuff to use it to your advantage...than why not do it...if a guy can break that consistantly and pocket a ball every time...good for him....that is the name of the game isnt it ? Consistency... you still have to make the rest of the balls on the table.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

i understand the views against it....but if your good/smart enuff to use it to your advantage...than why not do it...if a guy can break that consistantly and pocket a ball every time...good for him....that is the name of the game isnt it ? Consistency... you still have to make the rest of the balls on the table.

:wave: Ooh, ooh, I know the answer. Call on me, call on me!!!

The answer is: Because it is CHEATING.

 

[donny mills]

Lol

:wave: Ooh, ooh, I know the answer. Call on me, call on me!!!

The answer is: Because it is CHEATING.

S ro
LOL you're calling me a cheater... you ididot. If you are allowed to then how is it cheating???????????????? By the way...If anybody wants to let me play the ghost with out ball in hand and no pattern racking just randomly racked then come bust me.

 

[RD3P]

Lol
S ro
LOL you're calling me a cheater... you ididot. If you are allowed to then how is it cheating???????????????? By the way...If anybody wants to let me play the ghost with out ball in hand and no pattern racking just randomly racked then come bust me.

Dogplypoo got busted.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Lol
S ro
LOL you're calling me a cheater... you ididot. If you are allowed to then how is it cheating???????????????? By the way...If anybody wants to let me play the ghost with out ball in hand and no pattern racking just randomly racked then come bust me.

It is cheating if pattern racking happens in tournaments.

Gambling match with both players agreeing on it, that's a different story.

 

[madfox]

:wave: Ooh, ooh, I know the answer. Call on me, call on me!!!

The answer is: Because it is CHEATING.

Tap, tap ! This is the answer. We have here a player that is doing this with anybody. He is much better than me but he would use his boring racks to win. He doesn't love the game, he just wants to win. Now I just tell him from beginning to make the balls random
I just hate this. If the game rules are against it, why try to go around? This is the spirit of the game.
I don't know about TAR rules, but it was a money game, so anything goes ??????

 

[RD3P]

so you guys think pattern racking gives a guy that big of an advantage?
id think the advantage is more mental than anything, because in 9ball the better players can make anyshot on the table at anytime.

...when some people lose they will find any reason to *****...this is why pattern racking is banned in tourneys and the same reason why Master players are banned from alot of local tourneyments anymore , all because the guy that just got dogwalked always has to cry to someone about something.

anybody here would be lying if they say theyve never pattern racked(or even shit racked) while racking for an oppenent i guarantee it...you might not do it all the time but youve done it, dont lie.

 

[cranegod1]

Lol
S ro
LOL you're calling me a cheater... you ididot. If you are allowed to then how is it cheating???????????????? By the way...If anybody wants to let me play the ghost with out ball in hand and no pattern racking just randomly racked then come bust me.

If both players agreed then it's legit. Donny just wasn't good enough to beat Shane, even with a possible advantage.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

It is cheating if pattern racking happens in tournaments.

Gambling match with both players agreeing on it, that's a different story.

I agree with this. When matching up you can do whatever is agreed to. A good example is when you are giving weight, say the 8 ball. Nothing wrong with specifying it gets racked directly behind the one ball.

 

[donny mills]

LOL

If both players agreed then it's legit. Donny just wasn't good enough to beat Shane, even with a possible advantage.

LOL but I was good enough to beat kiamco. Shane has never beat kiamco

 

[Debbie R]

Johnnyt: As far as patern racking killing 9-ball? It was already killed when they changed it to the one foul BIH Texas crap and other changes IMO.

I completely agree. Unfortunately, I was not around for old fashioned rollout 9 ball. But after someone told me the rules, I was shocked it went away. In Texas Express the races have to be ridiculously long to minimize the luck factor. I am noticing more and more how often a better player does not win in a tournament match with races to 7, 9 or 11. It seems the races need to be at least to 20. With rollout 9ball, I can imagine a race to 7 would be plenty sufficient.

Plus watching the matches would be much more exciting with a lot more strategy. Afterall, in pro pool when someone scratches on the break and leaves an open table, the odds are the other guy is going to run out. That's just not as exciting to watch.

 

[TheMarsMan]

Lol
S ro
LOL you're calling me a cheater... you ididot. If you are allowed to then how is it cheating???????????????? By the way...If anybody wants to let me play the ghost with out ball in hand and no pattern racking just randomly racked then come bust me.

Certainly there was no cheating going on in the match with Shane, pattern racking was agreed on by both players before the match started.

Your ghost game sounds interesting though, what happens if you scratch or don't make a ball on the break? How are you going to guarantee that they are random?