Pay me now or Pay me later?

[MINDSEYE153]

A customer came to the shop for a leather wrap. I showed him the skins I had in stock and he made his choice picking a Burgundy Gator. I said $100, he said no problem.

I did the work, called him and let him know he could come pick it up. When he gets to the shop he tells me that some other guy he knows will do it for $60 so that's all he'll pay me. I tell him that the next time he needs a leather wrap he can go to the other guy and pay him the $60 but the price for the work I did is still $100 and that, if he wanted his stick back, he'll pay the price that we both agreed on.

After much profanity on his part he paid the $100 left with his stick and has been bad mouthing me to anyone who will listen to him. The way I see it; Good riddance to bad rubbish. Sticks and Stones and all that stuff.

The only time I would ask for a Deposit is when I was making a cue. $100 for a cue that's under $500, and half the price of the cue for a cue that's over $500. Now I ask for "Cash up Front" for all repair work, where it used to be pay when you pick it up. One bad apple spoils it for everyone.

Some of my customers are taking offence but only the ones that would be trying to haggle a better price on the work anyway so as far as I see it, it's no big deal. The regulars don't seem to have a problem.

So I ask, how do you guy's run your shop?

Pay me now or Pay me later?

Paul

 

[Cuedog]

You're going to get answers favoring both, but the 40 - 70 shafts that I have accumulated over the time period that I didn't request half down are a testament to why I ask for half now and half when they pick it up. Rarely does anyone have a problem with this. Regulars are the exception of course or unless I have a high dollar shaft or butt.

Gene

 

[rhncue]

You're going to get answers favoring both, but the 40 - 70 shafts that I have accumulated over the time period that I didn't request half down are a testament to why I ask for half now and half when they pick it up. Rarely does anyone have a problem with this. Regulars are the exception of course or unless I have a high dollar shaft or butt.

Gene

Until the last year or so I never took a deposit for any cue building or repair. Lately I've been getting a 25 or 50.00 deposit for building a new cue but not on repairs. I figure I have their cue and if they don't come back then I can sell it.

Dick

 

[Michael Webb]

Hi Paul:
When they give you a hard time, don't get upset, just say thank you, put the cue back in your case and tell them to have a nice day, Please come back when you want your cue.

Edited by me for the weak at heart, no need to argue over what can't be changed. I think the ones who have posted so far will understand.

 

[Varney Cues]

A lot of my local repairs are done through a local room. I always get 100% up front. I tell them "go ahead & pay me now & I'll have the cue here ready for you tomorrow & it'll be marked PAID with your name on it". Works well for me. I too have a collection of shafts from back when I accepted work with no money paid up front. Some of the nice shafts like Josey etc. get recycled after a period of time...I think 1 year with no contact. Much like an auto mechanic putting a lean on unclaimed cars & selling them.

 

[BHQ]

A customer came to the shop for a leather wrap. I showed him the skins I had in stock and he made his choice picking a Burgundy Gator. I said $100, he said no problem.

I did the work, called him and let him know he could come pick it up. When he gets to the shop he tells me that some other guy he knows will do it for $60 so that's all he'll pay me. I tell him that the next time he needs a leather wrap he can go to the other guy and pay him the $60 but the price for the work I did is still $100 and that, if he wanted his stick back, he'll pay the price that we both agreed on.

After much profanity on his part he paid the $100 left with his stick and has been bad mouthing me to anyone who will listen to him. The way I see it; Good riddance to bad rubbish. Sticks and Stones and all that stuff.

The only time I would ask for a Deposit is when I was making a cue. $100 for a cue that's under $500, and half the price of the cue for a cue that's over $500. Now I ask for "Cash up Front" for all repair work, where it used to be pay when you pick it up. One bad apple spoils it for everyone.

Some of my customers are taking offence but only the ones that would be trying to haggle a better price on the work anyway so as far as I see it, it's no big deal. The regulars don't seem to have a problem.

So I ask, how do you guy's run your shop?

Pay me now or Pay me later?

Paul

i think i would have put the cue back in the lathe
and cut 40% of the leather off of it
and handed it back to him​

​

​

 

[RocketQ]

wrap

Did you still have the opld wrap there? If so depending on what kind of day I was having I might have put the old one back on with 3m spray adhesive and said see ya later.. Don't like doing business like that but it was your price and he agreed. If he didn't want to pay it or didn't like the job flock him. Where I am all people are cheap. Especially when you tell them what you want for a repair.

Standard line.... Here is the price.. This is what I charge. You no like it find someone else. This usually gets truth from people.
Point is if the job was done right and weather he is bad mouthing you or not your work will show that you know what you are doing and quality is worth paying for. $100 for a skin is a good price...
My 2 cents.

 

[WilleeCue]

WOW Paul, that sure takes the cake.
I bet anybody that knows that guy just snickers when he rants about it.
His word would not carry much weight.

 

[Irish634]

From a consumer standpoint, I don't have a problem paying up front because I know my cue maker / repair person does high-quality work. I guess I could be lumped in the "regular" category in that respect.

But, from my own experiences, I would be leery of paying up front if I was unsure of or didn't know the person doing the work. But I suppose that's another discussion. May be bad analogies, but do you pay for groceries before you put them in your cart? Do you pay the garage before they fix your car?

I suppose it is all based on the built up consumer/vendor trust that you have mentioned. That is something that takes time to build and usually doesn't happen overnight.

I don't agree with the low-balling, especially since you both agreed to the $100 up front. It's your customer's problem that he didn't shop around to begin with. IMO I believe you did the right thing in holding the cue until your agreed upon price was paid.

 

[ratcues]

All of my repair work is paid up front. For this guy to dicker on price AFTER the work is completed is wrong.

Custom cues are paid when completed unless it is some crazy specs that I couldn't sell otherwise.

 

[cueman]

I usually don't charge for repairs until it is done. But sometimes on leather and such the guy will say he has the $100 now, so he wants to go ahead and pay. So in that case I take it. He knows better than I do how well he holds onto his money. I would not worry about making everyone pay up front for repairs because you run into one bad apple. Over-reacting to a problem often creates a bigger problem. I would probably have said, I know I do quality work and charge a fair price for quality work. Never saying whether the other $60 guy does good or bad work. If he wanted to argue on I would have asked why he did not take it to him in the first place? And remind him we agreed on a price. But the price would stay at $100.

 

[Cuedog]

When asking for half down a bunch of positive things happen from it.

1.) Your costs are mostly covered immediately.

2.) Half is not financially straining to 99% of your customers.

3.) When they have more than a shaft they barely use invested, they are more apt to return in a reasonable amount of time to pick it up.

4.) Upon returning, the balance is as financially manageable as the deposit was.

As far as your approach to the situation you initially posted about, there's is no hard and fast rule here. Although we don't like to get lowballed, in retail, there is sometimes a need to be a bit flexible. Now I am not suggesting that you just take this guy's word for it and lower your price to $60.00. Instead you could have given him the quality vs low price speech and then offered a discount on his next job. Get the $100.00 for this job that you agreed on though.

There are many ways to diffuse a situation and get this same guy to come back to you and bring in his team mate's and friend's cues. I would be confused and cautious about a $40.00 difference in price as well if I didn't know any better. Think about it.

Gene

 

[Craig Fales]

When asking for half down a bunch of positive things happen from it.

1.) Your costs are mostly covered immediately.

2.) Half is not financially straining to 99% of your customers.

3.) When they have more than a shaft they barely use invested, they are more apt to return in a reasonable amount of time to pick it up.

4.) Upon returning, the balance is as financially manageable as the deposit was.

As far as your approach to the situation you initially posted about, there's is no hard and fast rule here. Although we don't like to get lowballed, in retail, there is sometimes a need to be a bit flexible. Now I am not suggesting that you just take this guy's word for it and lower your price to $60.00. Instead you could have given him the quality vs low price speech and then offered a discount on his next job. Get the $100.00 for this job that you agreed on though.

There are many ways to diffuse a situation and get this same guy to come back to you and bring in his team mate's and friend's cues. I would be confused and cautious about a $40.00 difference in price as well if I didn't know any better. Think about it.

Gene

Yep...this could go under you get what you pay for...

 

[CrownCityCorey]

A customer came to the shop for a leather wrap. I showed him the skins I had in stock and he made his choice picking a Burgundy Gator. I said $100, he said no problem.

I did the work, called him and let him know he could come pick it up. When he gets to the shop he tells me that some other guy he knows will do it for $60 so that's all he'll pay me. I tell him that the next time he needs a leather wrap he can go to the other guy and pay him the $60 but the price for the work I did is still $100 and that, if he wanted his stick back, he'll pay the price that we both agreed on.

After much profanity on his part he paid the $100 left with his stick and has been bad mouthing me to anyone who will listen to him. The way I see it; Good riddance to bad rubbish. Sticks and Stones and all that stuff.

The only time I would ask for a Deposit is when I was making a cue. $100 for a cue that's under $500, and half the price of the cue for a cue that's over $500. Now I ask for "Cash up Front" for all repair work, where it used to be pay when you pick it up. One bad apple spoils it for everyone.

Some of my customers are taking offence but only the ones that would be trying to haggle a better price on the work anyway so as far as I see it, it's no big deal. The regulars don't seem to have a problem.

So I ask, how do you guy's run your shop?

Pay me now or Pay me later?

Paul

At shows (BCA, APA, Etc...) we at Tiger always have the customer pay up front for service work. Ya never know what is gonna happen when they come back (lost all the money gambling, wanna haggle now the work is done, blah blah....).

At the shop however, we usually do not charge up front. Most of our customers walking in are local and there is a certain amount of trust we think should be extended to them (whether we know them or not).

For a service like putting on a one-piece leather wrap I think either way works as long as the price is agreed upon and there is an understanding that the cue will not be turned over until both parties are satisfied (easy for you if they just pay up).

As far as the customer you had, sounds like he was kinda dirty. I think he knew full well that he was gonna try and pay you $60 from the get go, no matter what your price was. He's a jackass! Hopefully anyone listening to him can tell.

Oh well.

 

[ratcues]

All of my repair work is paid up front. For this guy to dicker on price AFTER the work is completed is wrong.

Custom cues are paid when completed unless it is some crazy specs that I couldn't sell otherwise.

A little correction, I get a method of payment such as a CC and do not charge it until the work is done. The way our system is set up, the work order will not print until there is a method of payment.

 

[Snap9]

Since I do not repair cues and am a smarta$$ this would be my response. "Let me go get my saw----It will just take a minute " If he/she was still cussing I would than procede with the intended task. Hand him back the pieces and than tell him to go get that $60 wrap.


But than again I am a smarta$$ when someone re-negs on their word.


P.S. Make sure to cut off enough so you can use it for a handle on another cue without effecting the nice wrap job

 

[ShootingArts]

"they know what their work is worth"

My shops were never the cheapest around. When people told me that so and so would do something cheaper my response was always a thoughtful, "Well, I guess they know what their work is worth."

Competing on the basis of price is foolish, there will always be someone to undercut you until nobody is making any money. Another point is that the customers that want it cheap are the ones that you have 90% of the headaches with.

I will caution concerning one thing, know the laws of your state when you hold someone else's property when they don't pay or eventually do away with it when they never come to get it. The laws are different in different states and you can find yourself paying new replacement costs plus damages or even looking at a felony in some cases.

Hu

 

[searingcue]

No left overs.

Hi,
I have a different point of view, at least not one that I've seen mentioned yet.
I think we (The professional cuemaker/repair man) first owe it to the potential repair customer to first consider the value of the item you are being asked to work on. If the item is not worth the cost of the repair then we owe it to them to inform them. If the item is worth the cost of the repair, then it's not likely your going to get stuck with the item unpaid. (it would be their loss)
If the item is not worth it, and they still insist on getting the work done by you, and your willing to do it, then get paid upfront, and explain why. If the item is worthy of the work being done, I won't refuse if offered but will never ask to get paid until the job is done. The only time I'll ask for a deposit is if I have to make a sizable out of pocket investment first to do the job.
I've only had two things left behind in 17 years, and the value was there for me to recover my investment.
I'll also refuse to do anything that will lower the value of fellow cuemakers cue.

Just a method by a person who's said yes to repair work far to long.

Dennis Searing

 

[cueman]

I can't remember anyone never picking up their cue after getting it repaired. But it may have happened as I have forgot alot in my 20 years of repairing cues. But I would like to share a story about one guy at a tournament years ago who stood by my lathe for a long time trying to get me to come down on my tip prices. I told him that is my price at tournaments because I have to pay to set up. But he could come by my shop during the week and pay a dollar less. What is funny is he finally handed me a lot of work to do and said he liked the fact I was firm. He told me that he knew then that I was confident my work was good enough for the price I charged and therefore trusted me. He was a road player at a pro topurnament and had me work on his cues many times after that. And he always referred to me as "the man that is firm." Then he would say, "I like him."
That was in the late 80's and I still don't haggle prices on repairs.

 

[MINDSEYE153]

Hi,
I have a different point of view, at least not one that I've seen mentioned yet.
I think we (The professional cuemaker/repair man) first owe it to the potential repair customer to first consider the value of the item you are being asked to work on. If the item is not worth the cost of the repair then we owe it to them to inform them. If the item is worth the cost of the repair, then it's not likely your going to get stuck with the item unpaid. (it would be their loss)
If the item is not worth it, and they still insist on getting the work done by you, and your willing to do it, then get paid upfront, and explain why. If the item is worthy of the work being done, I won't refuse if offered but will never ask to get paid until the job is done. The only time I'll ask for a deposit is if I have to make a sizable out of pocket investment first to do the job.
I've only had two things left behind in 17 years, and the value was there for me to recover my investment.
I'll also refuse to do anything that will lower the value of fellow cuemakers cue.

Just a method by a person who's said yes to repair work far to long.

Dennis Searing

Hello Dennis,

I agree with your point of view and always present as many options as I can when it comes to cues that are not worth the cost of the repairs to be done. I have at times lowered my prices for customers who were financially strapped, ( I can't stand to see someone chalking their ferrule or see a wrap being held in place with electrical tape) but when we agreed on the price it became, in my opinion, a done deal.

In this case, the cue in question, was well worth having the work done, and the customer in question in my opinion, was trying to get over. So I stood firm and waited him out, he knew he was wrong but tried to haggle none the less.

When you say recover your investment do, you mean selling a customer's cue?

I don't like to HOLD a customer's property for just the reasons stated in Hu's post before yours. To sell it would cause more problems than not getting paid, not only for me, but for anyone who purchased the cue in question.

I also refuse to do anything that will lower the value of, not only fellow cuemakers cue but, of any cue that comes into the shop.

I've admired your work for quite some time, it's nice to see you posting here!

Paul