PFD Cues pricing....WTF???

[Roadie]

...And I just don't get why someone with such resume would use overseas made blanks after having cues shown in the Smithsonian Museum... To sell them as $2000 cues after building cues in the $20,000+ range? Yeah right.

Presuming that your assertion is correct and I have not seen the proof that it is may I ask what the problem would be with using blanks made anywhere in the world?

Is there some reason that you feel that Mr. Drexler would not be fully aware of the quality of the parts he is using in his cues and be fully confident in delivering the finished product to the customer?

If we are to take a $2000 cue as an example then the cost of the blank is not really an issue is it? Nor is the place that the blank is made an issue unless the quality level is not sufficient to withstand the test of time.

If we are to assume that a blank from a place like Prather's Cue Parts costs $100 and another blank from Asia Cue Parts ltd. costs $20 and the cue maker has tested both and found them to be substantially similar and both are acceptable then what is the issue? When I am giving $2000 to a cue maker like Mr. Drexler I do not ever feel the need, or have I ever felt the need with any of my direct purchases from cue makers or dealers, to ascertain where all the parts for the cue originated.

Titlists were made in the millions in a factory setting. I would think that current blanks coming from Asia would be at least as good as those which were made in the Brunswick factory. At least this is my opinion based on the factory brands I see coming out of Asia which have sharp points and hardwood veneers. Most of them that I see appear to be as good or better than most the Titlists that I have seen. Granted Mr. Bredan I have not, nor do I intend to ever dissect and inspect any cue so my opinion is purely speculative.

I find the accusation however disturbing as if Mr. Drexler would be in the wrong for charging a lot for using overseas blanks when your tone suggests that you would not have a problem were he using those produced in the USA. I feel that this unfairly maligns both Mr. Drexler and the blank providers.

In my mind if a cue maker is as highly regarded as Mr. Drexler is then he is fully qualified to determine which parts are of sufficient quality to put in his cues regardless of where they are made. Personally I find it to be a major compliment to Asian cue manufacturing if they are producing blanks which are good enough to be used in high end cues.

I have seen it mentioned that Mr. Jack Justis uses imported interiors in his cue cases. Still his cases are regarded as the best of the best. Judging by the wealth of cues on display here and the list of Justis case owners it has to be assumed that those owners feel that Mr. Justis' cases offer adequate protection for their cues. And Mr. Justis obviously feels that way as well. So if Mr. Justis can be allowed to use overseas made interior parts why is Mr. Drexler or any cue maker forbidden from using parts made any where in the world?

Thank you in advance for further elaboration Mr. Bredan should you care to give it.

 

[cuedoctor]

Exactly Poohkiller! Where this rumor started is anyone's guess. If I had to speculate I would say it came from cuemakers who can't compete with Paul on design, execution, and playability.

It's funny, I've been a member of this forum for only a few months but I have been involved with pool for over 20 years and there are things I see here that just make me laugh. I think this is the reason for this thread. As I mentioned in the OP, where do some of these new cuemakers get off charging the money they get for their cues when someone like Paul can make the same cue only much better for far less money?

I think the issue is that there are some members here who come and blow smoke up everyone's butts about how great these new makers are. The problem is they are not anything special and the members touting them are just friends who act like they know what they are talking about. Sometimes an endorsement is a great thing but you have to consider the source especially in the billiards world. If you can't run out the door, why would anyone listen to your opinion regarding how well a cue plays?

Another thought on the use of CNC and it only requires two words....

BLACK BOAR!!!

'Nuff said.

TAP TAP TAP
New cuemakers prices are a joke. I have had a few drexlers and they were all great cues and Paul is about as nice a person to talk to as there is(besides Ron Haley). The prices on cues are driven by a few select group of cue dealers and flippers who come on here and build up cues that they have or have deals going with the cuemakers. As a cue buyer the major concern nowadays is a cues marketability when selling and this is where the price of Pauls cues suffers. I have seen tons of cues that I would love to own and the first thought is if I had to sell it could I ? This is where the dealers and flippers come into play because ultimately you will be competeing with what there pushing at the moment. Although you may be selling a great drexler that plays super and is priced way too low there are plain 4 point cues being sold for 3 times as much by some here on az who people think are cue gods that are going to be priceless. I have conversations with a few collectors and they are losing alot of interest in cues because of how out of touch these new cuemakers prices are. You have to earn the right to command these prices...you can ask what you want but that doen't mean that there worth anything near what you think your cue is worth.

 

[Monstermash]

TAP TAP TAP
New cuemakers prices are a joke. I have had a few drexlers and they were all great cues and Paul is about as nice a person to talk to as there is(besides Ron Haley). The prices on cues are driven by a few select group of cue dealers and flippers who come on here and build up cues that they have or have deals going with the cuemakers. As a cue buyer the major concern nowadays is a cues marketability when selling and this is where the price of Pauls cues suffers. I have seen tons of cues that I would love to own and the first thought is if I had to sell it could I ? This is where the dealers and flippers come into play because ultimately you will be competeing with what there pushing at the moment. Although you may be selling a great drexler that plays super and is priced way too low there are plain 4 point cues being sold for 3 times as much by some here on az who people think are cue gods that are going to be priceless. I have conversations with a few collectors and they are losing alot of interest in cues because of how out of touch these new cuemakers prices are. You have to earn the right to command these prices...you can ask what you want but that doen't mean that there worth anything near what you think your cue is worth.

That my friend, is EXACTLY my point.

Roadie,

I think you misinterpreted what Poohkiller was trying to say. The "yeah right" was meant to say "I don't believe it for a second."

 

[jkbales]

After looking for months, I found a wonderful used pfd cue made from a John Davis blank. I recognized the quality of these two makers and jumped on it. It was everything I wanted in a cue. I made a good deal and never thought of complaining that I paid too little for it.

It's not exactly plain but it's not Paul's fanciest work, either. It is an extremely good playing cue and I use it practically every day. It's truely deluxe - refined, elegant, first class all the way. I'm not a collector, so 50 years from now I expect my grandchildren to be playing with this heirloom.

I can't say enough about how friendly and knowledgable Paul's is. He's been so easy to deal with. It makes me want to call him and see if he's got one of those old, unfinished Titlists with my name on it.

 

[Monstermash]

I can't say enough about how friendly and knowledgable Paul's is. He's been so easy to deal with. It makes me want to call him and see if he's got one of those old, unfinished Titlists with my name on it.

I wouldn't wait too long as he doesn't have too many left. My friend just ordered one so there's even fewer now.

 

[poohkiller]

Presuming that your assertion is correct and I have not seen the proof that it is may I ask what the problem would be with using blanks made anywhere in the world?

Is there some reason that you feel that Mr. Drexler would not be fully aware of the quality of the parts he is using in his cues and be fully confident in delivering the finished product to the customer?

If we are to take a $2000 cue as an example then the cost of the blank is not really an issue is it? Nor is the place that the blank is made an issue unless the quality level is not sufficient to withstand the test of time.

If we are to assume that a blank from a place like Prather's Cue Parts costs $100 and another blank from Asia Cue Parts ltd. costs $20 and the cue maker has tested both and found them to be substantially similar and both are acceptable then what is the issue? When I am giving $2000 to a cue maker like Mr. Drexler I do not ever feel the need, or have I ever felt the need with any of my direct purchases from cue makers or dealers, to ascertain where all the parts for the cue originated.

Titlists were made in the millions in a factory setting. I would think that current blanks coming from Asia would be at least as good as those which were made in the Brunswick factory. At least this is my opinion based on the factory brands I see coming out of Asia which have sharp points and hardwood veneers. Most of them that I see appear to be as good or better than most the Titlists that I have seen. Granted Mr. Bredan I have not, nor do I intend to ever dissect and inspect any cue so my opinion is purely speculative.

I find the accusation however disturbing as if Mr. Drexler would be in the wrong for charging a lot for using overseas blanks when your tone suggests that you would not have a problem were he using those produced in the USA. I feel that this unfairly maligns both Mr. Drexler and the blank providers.

In my mind if a cue maker is as highly regarded as Mr. Drexler is then he is fully qualified to determine which parts are of sufficient quality to put in his cues regardless of where they are made. Personally I find it to be a major compliment to Asian cue manufacturing if they are producing blanks which are good enough to be used in high end cues.

I have seen it mentioned that Mr. Jack Justis uses imported interiors in his cue cases. Still his cases are regarded as the best of the best. Judging by the wealth of cues on display here and the list of Justis case owners it has to be assumed that those owners feel that Mr. Justis' cases offer adequate protection for their cues. And Mr. Justis obviously feels that way as well. So if Mr. Justis can be allowed to use overseas made interior parts why is Mr. Drexler or any cue maker forbidden from using parts made any where in the world?

Thank you in advance for further elaboration Mr. Bredan should you care to give it.

Dear Sir (sorry, I don't know your name),

I am afraid that you have misunderstood my point or perhaps I didn't make it clear.

Firstly, please let me explain what I wanted to say: in my opinion Paul has reached such a level in his career whereas he doesn't need to use inferior quality materials as he surely has customers paying top dollar for quality - There is no need for shortcuts here and hence the 'opinion' or statement that he uses inferior quality blanks and sell them as Titlists is incredibly out of line and makes absolutely no sense or what-so-ever at all.

Secondly, I would like to let you know that I share your opinion on everything aforementioned, let that be overseas-made blanks or Paul's expertise.
If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you to click USER CP on the upper left hand side of this page and there you may see that I have actually sent positive REP a few days ago to you regarding a latter post that you made in this question.

Finally, let me make a final point.

I live in Europe, Hungary and - fortunately or unfortunately - we see things differently than most of the Americans do when it comes to the origin of different products. We, especially here, in Hungary, hardly have anything made here, locally and hence the majority of our frequently used items is made somewhere else - anywhere on the Globe, from China to the USA and I have a lot less negative feelings against overseas made stuff than most Americans. This is another thing that you have misunderstood from my previous post as I am open to anything, I give a chance to almost anything that is worth it and I judge it later on, I consider myself rather open-minded.

I won't say all the stuff made 'there' is poor in quality and I also trust Paul's expertise when it comes to the use of the materials that he opted to build into his cues.

 

[cfrandy]

I'm sorry I'm late but I have to jump in this thread to say...the only really "expensive" cue I intend to own is a Drexler. To me, the "expense" in an "expensive" cue is the art work. Nobody does it better than Paul!
The fact that the cue plays as well as a Scruggs is simply unimportant...unless of course, you are actually going to play with it instead of just look at it's beauty!

All high 6 perfect points figured cocobolo into curly maple with veneers (blk, lt grn, grn). Ivory joint with Radial pin. Dash rings at joint and rear. Double/ triple ivory, malachite, and cocobolo inlays in points and at rear. Real chocolate brown elephant ear wrap. 13mm shafts with ivory ferrules and triangle tips

 

[jensen_lover]

A friend of mine orders a new Drexler studios every six months or so. I do not know what he pays but the cues are always perfect. He has a burl cue almost exactly like the one for sale here and the wood looks just like marble. The cue play great and I am sure he could get more money for them if the demand was higher.

 

[cfrandy]

This thread inspired me to buy another PFD cue! I just bought a titlest conversion! I intend to use this cue for everyday play.

 

[Monstermash]

This thread inspired me to buy another PFD cue! I just bought a titlest conversion! I intend to use this cue for everyday play.

Did you get that from Duc? I know he had that cue for sale for a little while. I'm sure you'll really enjoy it as your daily player. Please let me know how you think the cue hits with the Uni-loc.

 

[cfrandy]

Did you get that from Duc? I know he had that cue for sale for a little while. I'm sure you'll really enjoy it as your daily player. Please let me know how you think the cue hits with the Uni-loc.

Yes, I did get the cue from Duc. I made him a private offer and he accepted it. I think I got it for a very good price!

I love the hit of my other PFD cue but I am reluctant to use it often because...well, it just so damn pretty! LOL
So I've been on the lookout for another and this one is perfect. I don't particularly like the Uniloc joint, but I love the PFD hit so we shall see how it plays. I used a Predator for some time so I'm used to the Uniloc.

Someday, I will have Paul make me a break cue. Not to fancy but maybe with a few design elements from the titlist. Such as those beautiful purpleheart spearheads and the Hoppe ring.

Randy

 

[Monstermash]

Yes, I did get the cue from Duc. I made him a private offer and he accepted it. I think I got it for a very good price!

I love the hit of my other PFD cue but I am reluctant to use it often because...well, it just so damn pretty! LOL
So I've been on the lookout for another and this one is perfect. I don't particularly like the Uniloc joint, but I love the PFD hit so we shall see how it plays. I used a Predator for some time so I'm used to the Uniloc.

Someday, I will have Paul make me a break cue. Not to fancy but maybe with a few design elements from the titlist. Such as those beautiful purpleheart spearheads and the Hoppe ring.

Randy

Cool, I hope you enjoy it!

I'm currently on a quest to have a collection of nothing but PFD's in my bag. I have an RC3 that I posted up looking to trade for one but I haven't received any offers on anything I'd pull the trigger on.

Your other PFD is beautiful by the way!!!

 

[rayjay]

I share your confusion about why Drexlers are so depreciated in the aftermarket. The newer cuemakers on AZB that are getting top dollar are just the hottest trend. Not that they aren't good cues, but the quick demand for the hot cuemaker outran the supply and aftermarket prices just got outrageous for what the cues are, and poolplayers seem to be an easy pitch...looking for the holy grail.

I had a beautiful Drexler for a couple of years and tried to sell it about 9 months ago, got lots of really lowball offers and just had to refuse to give it away. The person I bought it from wound up buying it back for a little less than I paid when he heard it was for sale, my price, not his offer.

Drexler was the cuemaker commissioned to make The Hustler commemorative cue, which sold at auction for $50,000 (see the Blue Book of Pool Cues). He can make anything you want and more. The rounded points were probably ordered that way by someone that wanted them that way. If he ever made a cue out of an imported blank, which I seriously doubt, he wouldn't misrepresent it. Some people like spearheads on their points and there once was a time when everyone wanted a quick release joint...go figure.

Paul returns calls and emails immediately, as I know from experience with him, and treats everyone with respect, which is more than a lot of "famous" cuemakers do. I won't buy another cue from someone who won't return my emails or calls, once they have my order. Fame hasn't gone to Drexler's head, yet he's immensely respected and acknowledged by his peers and anyone that has ever spoken with him or played his cues. Some folks just don't know any better.

 

[cfrandy]

Cool, I hope you enjoy it!

I'm currently on a quest to have a collection of nothing but PFD's in my bag. I have an RC3 that I posted up looking to trade for one but I haven't received any offers on anything I'd pull the trigger on.

Your other PFD is beautiful by the way!!!

I totally agree with you, I too will be filling my bag with PFD cues! I have several cues (10) I plan to sell or trade for PFD's. As soon as I get home and take the time to take some pix of what I got, I will be posting them either here or on Ebay. I will keep a couple of the rare vintage cues, but everything else must go!
I hope to visit with Paul next time I get to CT. I would love to talk with him, tour his shop, and maybe pickup another cue on the spot! The quality of his work is simply unsurpassed! I can see the day will come when I can no longer buy his cues because they will be overpriced by collectors too! I can only hope that happens AFTER I fill my bag!

Randy

 

[tikkler]

please stop

Exactly Poohkiller! Where this rumor started is anyone's guess. If I had to speculate I would say it came from cuemakers who can't compete with Paul on design, execution, and playability.

It's funny, I've been a member of this forum for only a few months but I have been involved with pool for over 20 years and there are things I see here that just make me laugh. I think this is the reason for this thread. As I mentioned in the OP, where do some of these new cuemakers get off charging the money they get for their cues when someone like Paul can make the same cue only much better for far less money?

I think the issue is that there are some members here who come and blow smoke up everyone's butts about how great these new makers are. The problem is they are not anything special and the members touting them are just friends who act like they know what they are talking about. Sometimes an endorsement is a great thing but you have to consider the source especially in the billiards world. If you can't run out the door, why would anyone listen to your opinion regarding how well a cue plays?

Another thought on the use of CNC and it only requires two words....

BLACK BOAR!!!

'Nuff said.

Please pay attention to all this hype.....please. "you have to consider the source"

There is nothing wrong with going on here and claiming to all of a sudden love a certain cuemaker...LOL Feel free. I just dont think its to anybodys benefit to knock other cuemakers and there prices or whatever to try and help you get more attention.

As if that wasnt enough...now your going after other AZers who give an opinion on how a cue plays, I guess you must be a professional player then....right.

How about just give your opinion and lay off the tearing down part......what do you think

 

[Monstermash]

Please pay attention to all this hype.....please. "you have to consider the source"

There is nothing wrong with going on here and claiming to all of a sudden love a certain cuemaker...LOL Feel free. I just dont think its to anybodys benefit to knock other cuemakers and there prices or whatever to try and help you get more attention.

As if that wasnt enough...now your going after other AZers who give an opinion on how a cue plays, I guess you must be a professional player then....right.

How about just give your opinion and lay off the tearing down part......what do you think

Steve,

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I wasn't bashing Black Boar at all. What I was trying to convey was that BB does a fantastic job with cnc so it isn't necessarily a bad thing as some of the other posters had suggested. You'll notice that I said "new makers" which of course wouldn't include Black Boar.

The other comments in that post were not directed at BB at all.

 

[poohkiller]

Please pay attention to all this hype.....please. "you have to consider the source"

There is nothing wrong with going on here and claiming to all of a sudden love a certain cuemaker...LOL Feel free. I just dont think its to anybodys benefit to knock other cuemakers and there prices or whatever to try and help you get more attention.

As if that wasnt enough...now your going after other AZers who give an opinion on how a cue plays, I guess you must be a professional player then....right.

How about just give your opinion and lay off the tearing down part......what do you think

Yet I am a third party in this conversation I still dare to throw in my opinion.

With considering the source always being one of the most important factors - like you don't want to read about politics and economy in the everyday gossip papers and prefer Financial Times instead - you have pin-pointed the source of all my concerns... I believe that it doesn't take much more than a lot of time spent here and some observation to see the relations between several sellers and the way they hype cues up with marking cues SOLD all the time. My theory could be wrong but this has been going on for way too long to miss this.

When these people, flipping cues between each other, always marking them sold within a few days but listing them again within some time say that this or that cue plays good or even GREAT, I am very reluctant believing them as I am concerned that the only reason for them saying this is for making extra bucks on regular sales of the same maker.

Take Tony Zinzola for example. He literally blasted into this forum with his cues and >almost< everyone said that his cues are perfect even when they weren't. This kind of behaviour makes me feel uncertain when it comes to new makers.
Also, by now, Tony's work has reached a totally new level, his rings and inlays are perfect and he deserves ALL (and more) respect for his work.

My one and only point is that when some say that it is perfect when it isn't, and they bash your mind with it in every possible way, while listing his cues for sale ever-so-often, well, that's HYPE. (and I am not necessarily talking about Tony here!)

-----------

One last thought: what Anthony Scianella and Ernie Gutierrez does with CNC is absolutely fantastic, but making negative replies about another great cue maker using the same (well, similar) equipment for perfectly executed work - that's just unjust.

 

[OTB]

i share your confusion about why drexlers are so depreciated in the aftermarket. The newer cuemakers on azb that are getting top dollar are just the hottest trend. Not that they aren't good cues, but the quick demand for the hot cuemaker outran the supply and aftermarket prices just got outrageous for what the cues are, and poolplayers seem to be an easy pitch...looking for the holy grail.

I had a beautiful drexler for a couple of years and tried to sell it about 9 months ago, got lots of really lowball offers and just had to refuse to give it away. The person i bought it from wound up buying it back for a little less than i paid when he heard it was for sale, my price, not his offer.

Drexler was the cuemaker commissioned to make the hustler commemorative cue, which sold at auction for $50,000 (see the blue book of pool cues). He can make anything you want and more. The rounded points were probably ordered that way by someone that wanted them that way. If he ever made a cue out of an imported blank, which i seriously doubt, he wouldn't misrepresent it. Some people like spearheads on their points and there once was a time when everyone wanted a quick release joint...go figure.

Paul returns calls and emails immediately, as i know from experience with him, and treats everyone with respect, which is more than a lot of "famous" cuemakers do. I won't buy another cue from someone who won't return my emails or calls, once they have my order. Fame hasn't gone to drexler's head, yet he's immensely respected and acknowledged by his peers and anyone that has ever spoken with him or played his cues. Some folks just don't know any better.

i may be wrong but wasnt the hustler cue sold for charity, so it got that amount because of that.

 

[OTB]

Look at dale perrys work, it is nice, but he decided to dump on ebay so his cues sell for $150-350, tops. Please pfd dont start dumping on ebay........i want my drexxler to stay worth something, ebay the killer of the little guy.

 

[mia]

Monstermash can say one thing. poohkiller can say another. Tikkler can say a third thing. All in all, none of it matters.

People will either LOVE Paul Drexler's cues or they will LOVE someone elses.

The question was (more or less) how come Paul's cues don't have the same second hand market value as a bunch of the newer guys. Well, all I can say is the mass of cue buyers dictates what the market value for a cue is. That being said, if you think the market value/resale value for a PFD isn't as high as it should be, perhaps you're in the minority.

That's not to say anything about the man himself and the quality of his cues. But let's face it... if people aren't paying the money YOU think its worth, perhaps its not worth what you think.

It all boils down to opinion. And just because your opinion is that so and so makes hands down the best cues out there, that doesn't mean you're right and the rest of the world is clueless.