Pivoting systems and their relationship to CTE

[ENGLISH!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post
I do not need to get from you what I already knew & already know.

I do find it a bit interesting how you ignore & talk around some matters...

& only respond to what you choose...

The problem must be explained in a linear fashion. The only way I know to do it.

& you do not answer certain questions either.

Some of your questions pertain to objection #11. We can discuss that later afer #6 is resolved.

That is typical CTEer tactics.

Only been here a few months.

Look. You do not need me for this. Just show what you want to show & give the explanation.

Nope. This tour of Pivot Land is for you only. I thought you've been wanting to discuss this?

That is... Unless you joined AZB & opened this thread with just ME in mind.

I'm speechless but ..... I'm speechless


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your statements here simply do not add up. Not Kosher, so to speak.

So... explain it in a 'linear fashion". No one is stopping you.

But... If it's just for me then you DID open the thread with me in mind.

You don't want a discussion... You want to preach... or lecture in an arrogant condescending manner.

If you're so gun hoe to 'school' JUST & ONLY me... then do it in PM

Best Wishes for You & Yours

 

[Vorpal Cue]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post
I do not need to get from you what I already knew & already know.

I do find it a bit interesting how you ignore & talk around some matters...

& only respond to what you choose...

The problem must be explained in a linear fashion. The only way I know to do it.

& you do not answer certain questions either.

Some of your questions pertain to objection #11. We can discuss that later afer #6 is resolved.

That is typical CTEer tactics.

Only been here a few months.

Look. You do not need me for this. Just show what you want to show & give the explanation.

Nope. This tour of Pivot Land is for you only. I thought you've been wanting to discuss this?

That is... Unless you joined AZB & opened this thread with just ME in mind.

I'm speechless but ..... I'm speechless


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You statements here simply do not add up. Not Kosher, so to speak.

So... explain it in a 'linear fashion". No one is stopping you.

But... If it's just for me then you DID open the thread with me in mind.

You don;t want a discussion... You want to preach... or lecture in an arrogant condescending manner.

If you're so gun hoe to 'school' JUST & ONLY me... then do it in PM

I'll scratch it out and send it to you

Best Wishes for You & Yours

Going PM with the conversation as requested.

 

[ENGLISH!]

CTE with 1/4 tip offset at one diamond CB to OB separation = 15 degree cut angle.

CTE with 1/4 tip offset at two diamond CB to OB separation = 7 degree cut angle.

CTE with 1/4 tip offset at three diamond CB to OB separation = 1 degree cut angle.

View attachment 443759

At four diamond separation one would be cutting the OB to the right.
Have fun

<:thumbup:2>

But...

Now can you do it for 5 completely different angled parallel shots where the separation between the balls is exactly the SAME?:wink:

All the Best for You, E & for Your Family & Friends As Well,
Rick

 

[Vorpal Cue]

Would the cte bickering please stop. It clutters the thread. This thread isn't about how you use Pro. I'm focused on the half ball pivot and other ideas concerning the pivot. I'm getting some good info and ideas.

To the members who have posted new ideas and information, thanks for contributing.

To the members spitting on the windshield, please stop. You're spoiling the view.

 

[stan shuffett]

<:thumbup:2>

But...

Now can you do it for 5 completely different angled parallel shots where the separation between the balls is theexactly the SAME?:wink:

All the Best for You, E & for You Family & Friends As Well,
Rick

One more time.......I have said this at least 7 times. The 5 shots will be presented differently. WHY DOES HE KEEP REFERENCING THE 5 SHOTS? FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN TO IRRITATE ME. HE DID THIS FOR NO OTHER REASON.

I will be explaining the 5 shots and the fact that they do align to right angles with the same visuals but there is much more...........but he will not stop his onslaught toward me or my work.

He baited me and I bit.......I am just tired of his ongoing shit!

Stan Shuffett

 

[LAMas]

CTE with 1/4 tip offset at one diamond CB to OB separation = 15 degree cut angle.

CTE with 1/4 tip offset at two diamond CB to OB separation = 7 degree cut angle.

CTE with 1/4 tip offset at three diamond CB to OB separation = 1 degree cut angle.

View attachment 443759

At four diamond separation one would be cutting the OB to the right.
Have fun

Back to the topic:

Updated to add that with a 13mm diameter tip, and 1/2 of it shifted to the right so that the side of the tip is aimed at the center of the CB, the cut angle on the OB is 15 degrees to the left as shown when the separation between the CB and OB is one diamond.

To achieve the same 15 degree cut when the separation is two diamonds, just shift the tip 1/4 to the side pre-pivot.

Here is a mirror image for 1/2 tip shifted left of the CCB to left edge (9:00 O'clock) of OB.



Have fun

 

[LAMas]

The previous examples were the 1/2 tip shift to the right of the center of the CB and aiming at the right edge (3:00 o'clock) of the OB. Post pivot the new aim line is aimed within the OB.

Here is the example of a 1/2 tip shift to the left of the center of the CB and aiming at the right edge of the OB with 1, 2 and 3 diamond separations between the CB and OB yielding 47 degrees, 59 degrees and 77 degrees respectively as shown, Also shown is the mirror image on the right:



Those that are still with this post, have fun.

 

[stan shuffett]

The previous examples were the 1/2 tip shift to the right of the center of the CB and aiming at the right edge (3:00 o'clock) of the OB. Post pivot the new aim line is aimed within the OB.

Here is the example of a 1/2 tip shift to the left of the center of the CB and aiming at the right edge of the OB with 1, 2 and 3 diamond separations between the CB and OB yielding 47 degrees, 59 degrees and 77 degrees respectively as shown, Also shown is the mirror image on the right:

View attachment 443796

Those that are still with this post, have fun.

Great job! I agree!
But, just wanted to add that your great work has nothing to do with Center to Edge Aiming. I know that you know that but others may not.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Elephant Man]

Did CTE evolve from a 1/2 ball pivot to a 1/2 tip pivot in the last five years? Wish Spidey wasn't banned because I am almost certain he always did a 1/2 ball pivot for every shot. Was wondering if he changed because from what I read he seems to endorse Stan.

1) ETC@6
2) CTE
3) Parallel 1/2 ball
4) Pivot
5) Whammo!

 

[cookie man]

Did CTE evolve from a 1/2 ball pivot to a 1/2 tip pivot in the last five years? Wish Spidey wasn't banned because I am almost certain he always did a 1/2 ball pivot for every shot. Was wondering if he changed because from what I read he seems to endorse Stan.

1) ETC@6
2) CTE
3) Parallel 1/2 ball
4) Pivot
5) Whammo!

Yes, it was originally a 1/2 ball pivot. Through Stan's hard work he has refined it down to a 1/2 tip pivot.

 

[Elephant Man]

Yes, it was originally a 1/2 ball pivot. Through Stan's hard work he has refined it down to a 1/2 tip pivot.

Thanks. Do you know if SpiderWebCom switched? I have been using less pivot too lately, just wasn't sure if it was still CTE Hal style...

 

[cookie man]

Thanks. Do you know if SpiderWebCom switched? I have been using less pivot too lately, just wasn't sure if it was still CTE Hal style...

Yes he switched.

 

[stan shuffett]

Pivot amounts....

Essentially all pivots in CTE are half ball because the rotation of the cue to its destination is half of the cue ball.

Hal could do pivots where the cue would turn half way across the face of the cue ball or small turns as little as a quarter tip......each are half ball pivots.

CTE is visual and that is one reason for flaring the cue away from center cue ball. CTE info is optimally learned via a pivoting technique with the tip out out the way. It is all about visual sequencing at first.

The further one's cue is flared out the more challenge it becomes in placing one's bridge V. The less the flare as in 1/2 tip or 1/4 tip, the easier that one's V can be precisely placed according to what is seen. The eyes lead to V positioning even if a pivot amount is incorrect for a given shot. The eyes override faulty pivoting amounts, hence tweaking to the center that is seen. Pivoting as in MANUAL is eliminated in CTE PRO ONE. THE eyes lead the way to center without the manual version. The manual is a must learn primer, though, for really getting CTE.

Spidey can do ball and a half pivots or whatever.... or the 1/8th tip. The more the turn the tougher it can be. Spidery got very good with the larger pivot amounts.

Stan Shuffett

 

[LAMas]

Great job! I agree!
But, just wanted to add that your great work has nothing to do with Center to Edge Aiming. I know that you know that but others may not.

Stan Shuffett

Stan,

Thanks.

Anyone looking at my diagrams realizes that this is not the answer but a primer for those that want to embrace a pivot in their aiming. They have to appreciate the daunting task of making the tip offsets work at various separations between the CB and OB to pocket the OB while using the same bridge distance behind the CB that is comfortable.. But a precursor to even knowing where to start - like the edge of the OB or somewhere else depends on accurately visualizing the cut angle that is needed (in degrees) - not easy.

You have obviously melded all of the variables into a pivot system you call CTE Pro and kudos for that. You have even fine tuned your precepts to not require the pivot.

I have always said that what Hal and you have taught is based on the application of geometry and can be diagrammed if one was inclined and had the time. I work with microprocessors and memory devices that can store all of the elements necessary. These elements and solutions can be stored in the Cloud and downloaded to your smartphone as an aid at the touch of one's finger.

Perhaps one can sell such an app before it is outlawed.

In the meantime I will continue to use DD and CP2CP aiming.

Be well.

 

[stan shuffett]

Stan,

Thanks.

Anyone looking at my diagrams realizes that this is not the answer but a primer for those that want to embrace a pivot in their aiming. They have to appreciate the daunting task of making the tip offsets work at various separations between the CB and OB to pocket the OB while using the same bridge distance behind the CB that is comfortable.. But a precursor to even knowing where to start - like the edge of the OB or somewhere else depends on accurately visualizing the cut angle that is needed (in degrees) - not easy.

You have obviously melded all of the variables into a pivot system you call CTE Pro and kudos for that. You have even fine tuned your precepts to not require the pivot.

I have always said that what Hal and you have taught is based on the application of geometry and can be diagrammed if one was inclined and had the time. I work with microprocessors and memory devices that can store all of the elements necessary. These elements and solutions can be stored in the Cloud and downloaded to your smartphone as an aid at the touch of one's finger.

Perhaps one can sell such an app before it is outlawed.

In the meantime I will continue to use DD and CP2CP aiming.

Be well.

Technically, there is a pivot but it is more correctly described as an angling of one's cue to what is seen. The angling takes on 2 major descriptions of IN to OUT or OUT to IN or amazingly for some alignments the angling diminishes to straight.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Dan White]

Anyone looking at my diagrams realizes that this is not the answer but a primer for those that want to embrace a pivot in their aiming. They have to appreciate the daunting task of making the tip offsets work at various separations between the CB and OB to pocket the OB while using the same bridge distance behind the CB that is comfortable.. But a precursor to even knowing where to start - like the edge of the OB or somewhere else depends on accurately visualizing the cut angle that is needed (in degrees) - not easy.

Honest question/comment here so please no flaming: On the one hand you can line up behind the cue ball, figure out the ghost ball position, and hit center ball to send the cue ball to the ghost and pocket the cue ball. So on every shot you are hitting center cue ball and you are varying the contact point on the object ball based on feel.

On the other hand, I may have this wrong, but it looks to me what you are describing is a system where it is backwards from the above method. You are aiming at the ob edge for all shots, but you are varying your pivot amount based on feel. What is the advantage?

 

[LAMas]

Honest question/comment here so please no flaming: On the one hand you can line up behind the cue ball, figure out the ghost ball position, and hit center ball to send the cue ball to the ghost and pocket the cue ball. So on every shot you are hitting center cue ball and you are varying the contact point on the object ball based on feel.

On the other hand, I may have this wrong, but it looks to me what you are describing is a system where it is backwards from the above method. You are aiming at the ob edge for all shots, but you are varying your pivot amount based on feel. What is the advantage?

I am just killing time now that Trump won.

Pivoting systems of aiming are not parsimonious so I don't embrace them at the table but use it as an academic pursuit here on my CAD and keyboard.

As most know, I use DD and CP2CP aiming at the table. Easy for me but not everybody and some need pivots.

To answer your question. For cut angles greater than 30 degrees center CB to edge OB the ghostball center is outside of the OB and so one can't use the equator of OB as a crutch to estimate fractions. With pivoting one can see the edge of the OB (3:00 and 9:00) to start the aiming process prepivot and with the correct shift of the tip to the side of the center of the CB one can make those thin cuts.

Be well.:smile::thumbup:

 

[stan shuffett]

I am just killing time now that Trump won.
Pivoting systems of aiming are not parsimonious so I don't embrace them at the table but use it as an academic pursuit here on my CAD and keyboard.

As most know, I use DD and CP2CP aiming at the table. Easy for me but not everybody and some need pivots.

Be well.:smile::thumbup:

You got that right! About parsimonious. I love that darn word! That's exactly what CTE ain't. Sort of reminds me too of persimmons and in an odd way of chestnuts sort of like a Christmas word. Gotta embrace that word!

Had my double shot.....cleared from my doctors today!!

Stan Shuffett

 

[Vorpal Cue]

Blast from the past

I've mentioned how the angles crowd together in the last quarter of the cue ball and I've been looking for a good picture to describe it. The only thing I can find is something off an old analog computing device, the S scale of a slide rule. It's the bottom row of lines on the body of the rule.

The black lines are the sine values mapped to a straight line, like a cue ball radius for instance. The values are linear to a certain distance then begin to get much closer at the end of the scale, like a cue ball's edge for example. The black numbers are for the sine, the red for cosine.





The spacing between the lines is pretty regular and the proportions between angles are about the same distances apart. 15* is 1/4 ball, 30* is half ball. 10* is 1/6 ball, 20* is 1/3 ball, 40* is 2/3 ball. Around 50* the marks start getting closer together and around 70* become even more compressed. A little distance goes a long way here.

If you imagine the scale of the rule and shrink it down to fit on a cue ball radius, you see the physical distance is very small at the end of the scale or cue ball edge. The tangent lines don't dance very much with table position but they use a very small dance floor. Hope you found it interesting.

For the purists: You'll notice the scale doesn't start at 0*. An expanded ST scale is used for small angles to get the tangent and sine values where they are almost equal. Consult Wiki for more slide rule facts if interested. They're as easy as falling off a 'log'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule

 

[Tony_in_MD]

It has been over 40 years since I have seen one of those.

My father was a draftsman, and taught me to use one when I was about 12.

Interesting post, will have to explore this.