Exactly. At least give it a go first. If it's a blow-out then readjust if need be.
Playing up against better players-advice please
- Thread starter TeddyKGB
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TeddyKGB
Active member
I know i have a better chance with a shorter race...like i said i win 1 out of 3 on average. I won the hot seat one night just because i got in a lucky draw on the weak side of the bracket
Unfortunately, too many players think simply "playing" better players is an effective way to improve. The truth is, paying attention to how the better players play (how they think, shot selection, strategy, what they do, how they study the table, how they approach each shot, how they stand, how they stroke the ball, etc...) is the key to improving.
Observe and learn. Take mental notes on the things you see that you know you need to work on, or things you see that you know should be incorporated into your game. That's the real lessons gained from playing better players. Losing your ass for a few dollars here and there is only worth it if you can learn something during the process.
Sure, there's a certain amount of "seasoning" that occurs when you're playing/gambling against players better than you. Money becomes less important, loses its luster a bit, and you no longer get as nervous or mentally affected by the thought of winning or losing. But all that comes later. First you learn by observing and copying, and of course by working on the things you discover.
Test this stuff against weaker players or players of your own caliber, and pay attention to things they might do that you don't see better players doing. Eventually, everything will begin to fall in place and you'll become more competitive with those better players, both physically and mentally.
Texas3cushion
Active member
Fair enough. I was a bit lazy in my post. What I mean is, if I ask for weight and you beat me pretty easily. I'm going to ask for more later.
Improvement comes from practice. Playing in a tournament is performance time. When performing, stay in your comfort zone, that level of ability where you have the best chance of being consistent and confident.
It's called playing smart, playing within your current limitations. You'll start winning more often if you do this.
Practice chips away at your current limitations and expands your comfort zone. The result is higher performance levels.
Remember: Practice is not performance. Performance is not practice. These are two separate things. Never practice something new or unknown during a performance. Stick to what you know you can do within realistic expectations, like things you know you're at least 80% likely to pull off. That means don't go for low-percentage sellout shots unless there is absolutely no better/smarter option.
My advice on game play...: Tighten up your difference engine. If you're not >85% to pot the ball and get the desired shape (be honest), then play safe. Stronger players expect the weak to sell out. Opting more often than not, not to take risks, even minor, will irritate them to testing their luck to make something happen. Trust me 
My advice on gleaning something from the challenge...: What I do to gauge the spd of a player, is to identify the potential hazards on the table and note how they handle them or fall victim. At your level this will appear to be a mix of pattern play vs whacky CB movement. Your opponent's table IQ will play a role as well, but until you have a grasp of their capabilities, you're not going to be able to gauge what's a move vs a blunder. Seeing how they work a table to manage problems will be the knowledge you want to adopt in your own game. Pay attention or don't bother.
The reality here is there's nothing to be learnt donating rather than just watching. You're better served to watch a pair of top shots mixing it up and buying them both a drink, then pulling cash out of your wallet. The cold hard truth is that the top shot is only going to do what he needs to do to win against someone your spd. That includes taking greater risk and playing weaker safes. Watch the top players trade shots if you want to learn what the good moves are.
Playing stronger players only tests your will and performance under pressure. If you want to challenge yourself, there's nothing wrong with it and I'd still encourage it. However I don't think playing in these situations when wanting to develop table IQ will provide much if anything, over just observing.
My advice on gleaning something from the challenge...: What I do to gauge the spd of a player, is to identify the potential hazards on the table and note how they handle them or fall victim. At your level this will appear to be a mix of pattern play vs whacky CB movement. Your opponent's table IQ will play a role as well, but until you have a grasp of their capabilities, you're not going to be able to gauge what's a move vs a blunder. Seeing how they work a table to manage problems will be the knowledge you want to adopt in your own game. Pay attention or don't bother.
The reality here is there's nothing to be learnt donating rather than just watching. You're better served to watch a pair of top shots mixing it up and buying them both a drink, then pulling cash out of your wallet. The cold hard truth is that the top shot is only going to do what he needs to do to win against someone your spd. That includes taking greater risk and playing weaker safes. Watch the top players trade shots if you want to learn what the good moves are.
Playing stronger players only tests your will and performance under pressure. If you want to challenge yourself, there's nothing wrong with it and I'd still encourage it. However I don't think playing in these situations when wanting to develop table IQ will provide much if anything, over just observing.
Just the first paragraph alone is gold.My advice on game play...: Tighten up your difference engine. If you're not >85% to pot the ball and get the desired shape (be honest), then play safe. Stronger players expect the weak to sell out. Opting more often than not, not to take risks, even minor, will irritate them to testing their luck to make something happen. Trust me
My advice on gleaning something from the challenge...: What I do to gauge the spd of a player, is to identify the potential hazards on the table and note how they handle them or fall victim. At your level this will appear to be a mix of pattern play vs whacky CB movement. Your opponent's table IQ will play a role as well, but until you have a grasp of their capabilities, you're not going to be able to gauge what's a move vs a blunder. Seeing how they work a table to manage problems will be the knowledge you want to adopt in your own game. Pay attention or don't bother.
The reality here is there's nothing to be learnt donating rather than just watching. You're better served to watch a pair of top shots mixing it up and buying them both a drink, then pulling cash out of your wallet. The cold hard truth is that the top shot is only going to do what he needs to do to win against someone your spd. That includes taking greater risk and playing weaker safes. Watch the top players trade shots if you want to learn what the good moves are.
Playing stronger players only tests your will and performance under pressure. If you want to challenge yourself, there's nothing wrong with it and I'd still encourage it. However I don't think playing in these situations when wanting to develop table IQ will provide much if anything, over just observing.
How many times do you see people run down to the last ball before the 8 and they have no shot on it.
Rather than look and tie up a ball or multiple balls, they try to make that one last ball somewhere it is physically impossible to make.
@Bob Jewett is coming through your town, B. Stick a booger on him. I hear he's good, but I'm betting on you.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
I was getting frustrated the other night playing weaker players, you know the ones, barely make shots but always roll the cue ball where I barely have a makeable shot, let alone play position. Then I got an opponent who was better than me, I had much more fun losing to him than winning in those other games because it was an exciting game.
My advice for the original poster is let the game come to you. Learn to impede you opponent until he gives you an opportunity. I've heard the advice "Just play your game and when it's your turn to win, you'll win." We really can't control whether or not we win or lose, but we can learn things that typically produce good results and work to execute those things well.
I probably need 7 out...I barely played for 2 years. Mourning the loss of Salt City Billiards and what was left of pool in this god forsaken town.
Now that I've just about emptied the room...it's really hitting home.
Oh i have had my life back 2 years....and now it's even more so.
So many guys just don't play anymore, moved or died.
Every year the game gets smaller in Upstate NY....that's been true for the last 50 years.
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I think the competitive requirement is way too random. Players can be nurtured into 6s and beyond - at which time they will have something to fire at the competition. Consider the more popular inverse. A four spends the entire season trying to get to five in the thick of egos and the failure soup of groups. This is more like hazing than education and what do they get? A pass to the next pecking level? On a very glaring level, that and a couple moves or shots might be the only take home.
Have you ever had someone check your fundamentals? Maybe there is something there that would be simple to fix once diagnosed.
A good instructor could also show you some good exercises to improve your position play.
Woodshaft
Do what works for YOU!
I find that the best people to practice with are the ones who play you about even.
That way you push each other to be better because, nobody wants to lose to a guy they can beat!
Play for a little something, and you'll both probably get better. You want a guy to "push" you to win, not demolish you.
Also, play in as many tournaments as you can, to work on nerves and stamina.
As far as the "you need to lose to better players to get better", it's bs.
In this day and age, youtube will teach you waaaayyyyyy more useful stuff than will losing your lunch money to better players.
Watch the pros play 10-ball. It is the most thorough skilled, common game imo. Lots of strategy.
9-ball is a waste of time to play or watch. Even 8-ball is better, especially at the amateur level.
And the days of "you need to pay your dues" are long over. Guys that feed you that line are just after your cash, not trying to teach you.
I mentor lots of players in my region, and I try to pair similarly skilled players to practice with each other.
You can play the better guys if you want but, to steadily improve, I find playing against peers works better. You push each other.
That way you push each other to be better because, nobody wants to lose to a guy they can beat!
Play for a little something, and you'll both probably get better. You want a guy to "push" you to win, not demolish you.
Also, play in as many tournaments as you can, to work on nerves and stamina.
As far as the "you need to lose to better players to get better", it's bs.
In this day and age, youtube will teach you waaaayyyyyy more useful stuff than will losing your lunch money to better players.
Watch the pros play 10-ball. It is the most thorough skilled, common game imo. Lots of strategy.
9-ball is a waste of time to play or watch. Even 8-ball is better, especially at the amateur level.
And the days of "you need to pay your dues" are long over. Guys that feed you that line are just after your cash, not trying to teach you.
I mentor lots of players in my region, and I try to pair similarly skilled players to practice with each other.
You can play the better guys if you want but, to steadily improve, I find playing against peers works better. You push each other.
Yes. If you have a supportive peer group, learning can be much more efficient. This of course presumes the student is there to learn. Some people just want to win. You can't skip from crawl to win. Speaking of winners, a good percentage of the winners just want to collect. This is not a good deal by any scale.
The armchair ideal is acquire an accurate overview and work at it.
Woodshaft
Do what works for YOU!
Learning to win is what it's all about.
The folks I teach seem happy with the results.
Nobody wants a teaching method that is difficult or frustrating or humiliating.
I show people how to play the game more efficiently. It's more about playing the percentages than just the mechanics.
And they learn and grow together as peers, helping each other along the way.
Lots of happy, much improved players after a few weeks of basic knowledge and peer practices.
Most clients I teach are average bar leaguers. I have helped up to fargo 650ish folks also. I myself play a little north of that.
I enjoy the game and helping others.
All the pressure is on the better player until the worse player gets at the finish line then the pressure is on them.
BuffaloSlim
Active member
Maybe the money and time being spent on the Saturday and Sunday tourneys would be better spent with an instructor for a little while .. they may be able to quickly pick up on some things and give you some advice/drills on how to work on those areas .. then when your satisfied with the outcome go back to playing those tourneys again