PM me your UltraSkin Layered Cue Tip Story

Not only will I save you a seat, I'll buy you a beer too. Hope they have some 9 foot Diamonds there.
 
It's not really the having to know where they are made. It's more the attitude that TomHay took when he got asked that question. He got offended that anyone would ask such a question, and as such, has caused me to question why he is taking that action. Why would someone, if everyone is raving about their tips, take the stance he has when asked where the tips are made? It makes no sense to treat potential customers they way he has. All he needed to do was answer one simple question, yet he made a rant about being asked the question, when a one line response would suffice.

Gotta agree with this post. at this time, due to Tom's comments and evasivness, I will be withdrawing my order. No need to be this way when trying to push a 'new' product. Simple questions were asked...and only simple answers were needed.
Dave
 
David, your money was refunded, I hit the refund button if someone sneezes, thats my name up there.

Lets look at this another way.

Two Gas Stations right across the street from each other. Everyone in my Condo is raving about how great gas mileage they are getting. The Gas Station owner of one has been around the city forever, he is known as a man of his word and offers a 100% money back discount if you don't like his gas.

I pull up and to my surprise he is selling the gas for .20 cents a gallon. I look over and see the other gas station is selling gas for $3.75 a gallon without the raves of people I know in my condominium.

A guy from Saudi Arabi I heard about flew in for the day (Nothing against Saudis, just Gas related). He asks the owner where he gets his gas. The owner did not hear him the first time. The Saudi now yells so loud ALL the customers and even people at nearby Condominium hear him. The owner tells him look its meaningless, trying to give some back to the people, excuse me, have a nice day.

This is not good enough for the Saudi and Iraqi joins in demanding to know where he gets his gas from. This goes on for hours, the Gas station is Old School, you slap me, I am going to slap back. He finaly tells them, they pedal there bicycles out of the Gas Station and go elswhere.

I have had to listen to this and start to think "I know the Gas Station Owner had some points but he seemed rude at times". I look back up at the .20 a gallon, remember the rave reviews, money back warranty and fill up with the .20 gas.

I drive by there a few days later, don't need gas as I am getting twice the milage but want to buy a soda. I walk in and there is an Iranian telling the guy he wants his money back because he heard how he treated the Saudi and Iraq days ago. Gas station owner doesn't argue a bit, just hands the money back. The Iranian pedles off on his bicycle. I was curious and asked the Gas Station owner where the guy was going to put the gas. Gas Staion owner says, I don't know up his - Blank - for all I care. I buy the Soda and the gas station owner says excuse me, I don't make anything selling gas, I need to go in the back and build some cues on my Lathe where I make some money

We Ole guys always tell Stories rather than say something in one line keeps our minds sharp
 
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Hi Tom. I have never bought any of your tips. I have not installed any. I never asked for a sample. So, I consider myself unbiased. Still, I probably should not be making this post. But, I have nothing better to do for the next 5 minutes.

You have a right to not disclose anything you want to keep private. People have a right to ask questions if they think it helps them make a purchasing decision. Even if (you think) someone asks with ulterior motives, IMO, the question should be answered the same each and every time. Personally, I don't understand the drama. I do understand working hard to develop something, sticking your neck out, and hoping it is given a fair chance without people undermining it. It is easy for emotion to get mixed in with responses.

"Thank you for your interest in my tips. I have worked hard to ensure the tips I am selling are a consistent quality at a more than fair price. I believe I am succeeding, I would not sell the tips otherwise. At this time, I have decided not to disclose the details of the manufacture of my tips. I understand this may turn away some buyers. I have decided to accept that possibility. I also know the quality of the tips I sell. I have simply chosen to let the product speak for itself. Thank you for understanding."

A statement like this posted on your web site, or a response like that on this forum each and every time someone asks the same question, IMO, would be a better advertisement for your business than the bit of drama that unfolded in this thread.

I have no axe to grind with you, I just thought I might try and help. I hope my post is taken in that light. Good luck with your business.
 
Kelley Guy I understand what you are saying. That is how my older sister would do it. She is a Grauate of Harvard among other schools and has been in school every year since she started Kindergarden and continues today in her mid 60's.

My family was just above middle class. They wanted to give me any education I wanted. Anything good I do I learned from them. I however choose the streets. I am a Street Fighter. Anything else bad or good I learned I learned there. You take a swing at me, I just keep coming.

Now most of this could have and should have been done in PM. If you agree with that, lets move forward. This was a thread I started to GIVE AWAY tips. The thread was Hi Jacked. There is a new topic button one could have been submitted on where does the UltraSkinLayered Layered Cue Tip Come from? Now after Hi Jacking the thread and as I posted I thought I was under a 48 hour rule. The person could have PM'd me then and asked or directed me to I had an unanswered question. If you agree to this, lets move on. He called me out so to speak as though I were avoiding him. Thats where the Street Fighter comes in, you swing, I take a swing back.

Now lets go to your disclaimer for my Web Site. Why would I put that in? It opens a door to negativity where most only want to know the quality and if it is backed up. Do you see anyplace that shows anything but quality and full backing?

I was offered a Membership to a very elite group in the Billiard Industry. I turned it down because I am not in denial, I know how I am and didn't want this group to suffer.

This morning I entered AZB. I don't know what you do first but I go to PM's. Davids was there asking for a refund. No problem. I am not physcic but I already knew that post would be there for all to see and crazy as can be, there it was. I had already refunded Davids money before I got to it.

Now, like I said my formal education is not as good as it should be but that thread had been up for how long????? That thread also had thousands of views. This is however the first David had ever seen or heard about it? My Street senses give me at least 100 to 1 odds on that.

Not that your advise is not sound, its just not who I am. By doing anything other than the norm for me I become fake, a Snake Oil Salesman.

Last thing. If the products good and priced right I will buy it. I might not like the company owner but I am not having him over for Sunday Dinner. At the end of the day a Majority of my product is put on for guys that shoot in Bar Leagues who would think I was a sissyboy for backing down, not today not tomorrow will that happen. The right or wrong will not happen on this thread it will happen if I stay in business or people regect me for who I am.

The Added Money Tournaments I am giving is not coming from my pocket it is coming from my customers buys and that is what should be on my web site, A tournament in reality sponsered by those that love the game-my customers
Thanks,
Tom
 
First I will state:
I do appreciate your fast refund. Just as you stated you would do if it was asked for
In response to your question in your ORIGINAL response(non edited) 'if asked if my cues are made by me and in this country', I would Proudly say YES!. Wow, no trade secrets were unleashed in the answering of the question, and they still don't know how I put the rubberbands in them.
It's interesting how you have deleted/revised your response to my post. You took the attack and BS out so it would look like I'm the azz. Don't particularly care for that, and to me it paints a different character than you try to show, IMO.
As to your privacy being violated... really? You do know that it is required by law to disclose the country of origin when selling a product to the public in this country? That isn't protected by privacy laws whether selling above the table or below it.
All I was stating was someone asked 2 simple questions, if you make them and if not, are they made in the USA. It was simple and had been asked in almost all the ads you have had for these tips. You hadn't answered in any of them. In this thread you were asked again, and got on the attack right away. You browbeat the askers instead of answering the question. He wasn't asking for the manufacturer, nor the way they were made, no secret recipe was demanded, etc. If saying you did or didn't make them or they are made here or in another country revels trade secrets, then I missed something and apologize. Some people won't buy a non-USA product, and some will buy if you made them yourself as they may be into the 'custom' tip maker. And others won't care either way. The persons that asked the questions were NEVER disrespectful to you or your product, but your responses were, IMO. I chose to ask for a refund due to your reactions in this thread to the simple questions, 'do you make these yourself,' and 'are these made in the USA or another country' I have all the right to do this publicly, as you are selling them publicly and I proclaimed a payment publicly. You didn't have a problem with that.....and this also goes towards how one will expect you to react if one asks question about your product. Your on a public forum, selling stuff with no fees to the open public, so .....deal with it. I was uncertain to buy earlier based on no public feedback, no info, only pm's from some buyers(which seemed odd) but your latest deal seemed too good not to try them. Then I stumbled on this thread, and your own behavior caused me to backout.

It's too bad as your feedback on these tips seems good, but I refuse to buy from someone that acts this way.... no matter how good the product. Character comes first.
Hope all goes well for ya...
Sincerly,
Dave
 
Dave,

Nice of you to mention I do as I say, you wanted refund, it was there.

I think it helps show if you had a problem or did not like tips the refund would have been the same.

Besides Hi Jacking my thread what other benifiet do you see at the end of the day with any knowledge released.

The reason I got so outspoken was the manner the thread was treated, it was like I was being called out by Agent17.

I have no beef with you but you PM you want refund, I hit refund in less than a minute, Done deal. You however chose to come to the thread and post some high morale standing you feel you have right here on this thread. I don't know about anyone else but I see no reason for you having to post about this high morale standing on this thread.

Had I not refunded your money or even a lapes in time doing so maybe. There is a message box on refunds for Paypal, I didn't put anything in bad about your cancel.

Maybe your actions and my reactions are causing me to lose business but like you first and admitilay say you tried to sway people before away because you felt I might not deliver but my reputation has proven otherwise. You wanted to be my Judge and Jury then as you do now.

I could maybe understand this if I was selling tips for $20.00 but for $3.20 a tip shipping included with rave reviews?

You might consider asking others what they feed their pigs to make their leather so expensive than trying to beat up on a guy who sells them for less than you could buy the leather and resin and make them yourself for and why they won't give money to Pool Rooms to sponser tournaments so the Joe Doe player has a tournament to test his skills.

I however am the bad guy? You now know for a fact I honor my warranty. You know I could not be paying off all the people in here to say nice things about my tips and repeat customers. You can't say I bought off one of the all time greatest Cue Makers to chime in on how great he felt my tips are. How many times have people like him chimed in period?

I would like you and anyone else that feels I breed negativity and low morales to read the last few paragraphs, answer the questions truthfully to themselves and come up with a reason that I am lower than dirt.
 
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tips

I made a cue for a really good local player. He has always used LePro tips. He grinds them away by agressively and continuously grinding on them with a tip shaper cube. I put a tip on for him every few weeks.

On the last tip change I put on an Ultraskin soft. I told him to be gentle or not scuff it at all. I use a med and I never have scuffed it. There is no need to.

He absolutely loves the tip and says that he has control and excellent spin on the cue ball.

Kim
 
Did we go back to the Topic this thread was about? I have no reason to not believe that story. If I am able to use it with just the initials you just won 10 free tips send mailing info.

Justabanger glad to here it. I use first class mail though I could save a ton by not but you guys are aces and I love my customers.

Thanks both of you, brightened my weekend.:smile:
 
Did we go back to the Topic this thread was about? I have no reason to not believe that story. If I am able to use it with just the initials you just won 10 free tips send mailing info.

Justabanger glad to here it. I use first class mail though I could save a ton by not but you guys are aces and I love my customers.

Thanks both of you, brightened my weekend.:smile:

We'll just truck right on along and keep the thread back on topic. :)

I went home for my usual lunch break, and I had a package from some guy named Tom Hay in my mailbox....... WOOOO HOOOO, tips delivered in 2 days. Awesome service and I can't wait to put one and try it out. I'm even gonna rip off a Kamui just to try one. :grin:

Thanks for the awesome service Tom !!!
 
Installed my last Kamui black medium on friend's cue yesterday. He was really excited about changing to blacks, having shot Kamui II's previously (brown). He knew how "great" they were because he'd shot my cue on occasion, and loved the hit. After shooting his new tip he was stoked. He tried it back to back with my cue and said, "Yep, just like yours.' I didn't tell him I had recently changed my tip to Ultra Skin medium. He is a good player, by the way.

Off topic a bit, I think Dave, the refund guy, is not a good judge of character, and chose the wrong side in this thread. I'm sure he'll figure out how to get some of Tom's tips anonomously. Too bad Tom can't stiff him, like he deserves. JMHO
 
Yes, my agenda was to buy tips from you. If they were made by you.

You need to get over your paranoia. Or stupidity. I'm really not sure.

For sure, you are not as sharp as you think you are.

And neither is Mr Barringer for jumping all over this with his hypocritical rants and individual breakdown of my comments, taken out of context or placed in such a way as to prove something that simply is not true. Joe, you should have been a politician because you're very clever at putting a spin on the truth.

You blew it TomHay, and in the process embarrassed yourself to a lot of people reading this thread.

They may be too shy, or scared to post, but I guarantee everyone does not share your opinion, no matter how many times you try to bulldozer over the facts.

I asked you a simple question, which you did not like. So you threw a little hissy fit.

Also, I tried to remove myself from this childish argument but keep finding I'm getting dragged back in with various insults to my intelligence and motives.

As far as I'm concerned, you and Joe can jump back into bed and brown nose each other until you're both well and truly satisfied, but I have given you my reasons over and over again. You don't believe it, fine. But that's where it should end. A difference of opinion.

And for someone who has consistently told the forum how successful they have been in various businesses, you certainly do not act that way. More like a spoilt little brat who can't get his own way.

Grow up and let it go. You are damaging yourself way more than you are damaging me.

Let the thread get back on topic, and allow you to achieve what you set out to achieve.

As I have repeatedly said, your customers seem to like your tips, and you have done a good job in delivering the right product at a great price point.

I wish you continued good luck. Now move on.


Why should this man be embarrassed he has done nothing wrong, you should be embarrassed for acting like your 10ft tall and bullet proof picking on a 12 yr. old kid.

What does it matter where the tips are made? The tips may be made in his basement, Japan,Africa...etc....It's nobodies business but TomHays business.

If you can't afford to buy a $3.20 tip you may want to settle playing with the 20-30 cent Lepro,Elk Master Tips. Whether you do cue-repair or you're a cue maker if a tip costing $3.20 is the difference in you making a profit it might be time for you to find another hobby.
 
Off topic a bit, I think Dave, the refund guy, is not a good judge of character, and chose the wrong side in this thread. I'm sure he'll figure out how to get some of Tom's tips anonomously. Too bad Tom can't stiff him, like he deserves. JMHO

I'm only responding to this comment because it pertains to me specifically. Won't happen dude, anyone that knows me, here and on the reality side of life knows that I speak truthfully and from the heart. If I say it, I mean it, and If I mean it, I say it. There will never be an ultraskin layered tip installed by me, nothing against the quality of the product at all, just a matter of principal at this point. I grew up in a family business, and how a seller treats ALL people is important to me. It's amazing to me how so many will overlook a seller's behavior towards a potential buyer who asked a couple of innocent and simple questions. Is it due to feeling like they are with the 'in crowd' and also saving a few bucks on a tip, I don't know, but to each their own. I'm out, got better things to do.
Have a great weekend everyone.
Dave
 
I'm only responding to this comment because it pertains to me specifically. Won't happen dude, anyone that knows me, here and on the reality side of life knows that I speak truthfully and from the heart. If I say it, I mean it, and If I mean it, I say it. There will never be an ultraskin layered tip installed by me, nothing against the quality of the product at all, just a matter of principal at this point. I grew up in a family business, and how a seller treats ALL people is important to me. It's amazing to me how so many will overlook a seller's behavior towards a potential buyer who asked a couple of innocent and simple questions. Is it due to feeling like they are with the 'in crowd' and also saving a few bucks on a tip, I don't know, but to each their own. I'm out, got better things to do.
Have a great weekend everyone.
Dave

Dave, I am trying to get out and have this thread die as well but I can't as the thing is way out of proportion. If you have such high morale standards I can respect that and yes I think you should live by them.

A road, such as life has traffic going in both lanes. It is not just how a seller treats people it is how people treat people and you want people to think you live on higher ground than me. That would be nice if it had any bearing of truth.

You were not a part of this thread nor do you have knowledge of all its contents and goings on as you were not privy to PM's that also went back and forth between the parties during any of that time so there is/was still more to this than the eye can see.

On another thread however I offered a sale and gave my Paypal address. I did not ask or require anyone to say they were buying or going to buy. You however chose to post you were buying.

Sometime during the night you must have found a part of you where it did not sit right I guess according to you it was because of this thread. This being true I can respect that. You Pm'd me that because of it you wanted to cancel and be given a refund. I can respect that and gave it to you instantly with no ill words in the PM or Paypal refund reply.

At that point it was over on that deal for us.

You however elected to Post on what a bad person I was and how I treated people which until that time you had never been a part of.

This brings me to the point I can not understnad for the life of me. You could have gone back to the thread you posted you were going to buy, done an edit saying canceled and left it alone. The world would have known you canceled, you had already got your money back, it was over as gentleman.

You however elected to come into a thread that nothing had ever been said about you and you were not a high jacker to post you would not buy off me because I was rude etc etc etc. Take it or leave it this is like the Pot calling the Kettle Black. Your high morale grounds made you become like you say I am. You made a complete uncalled for attack on my character and ethics by posting in the same manner for the reason you say you canceled. As I pointed out, you were never a part, your name was never mentioned but you kept the hi jacking of the thread going and attacked me where I never attacked you.

I mean common sense based on the thread dictated if someone wanted to call me out I would come back in their face. I mean had I not returned your money or got nasty at you wanting a refund I could almost understand it. You can think you are Holier than Thou but your direct actions prove you are not. I have been in a lot of stores and busnesis in my day where the owners are just so polite, smiley and cheery and remain that way as they say no they will not refund money on their damaged or bad goods. Sure the attitude is good but it left me stuck with no refund and damaged or bad goods.

I can tell you this for fact. Some of the greatest minds in both the game of pool and building of cues will not post in here. They tell me it is because they don't want to get put in a position where they might be put on a spot being asked questions that they would rather not give out. The other is they don't have the time or the want to spend endless hours trying to explain why they will not give out information that cost them a lot of time, money and effort to obtain.

Besides you posting or drawing first Blood on this thread you elected to be like others and Hi Jack it off subject in a rant you come back and justify your actions because someone said something about you. You can spin things any way you want and try to believe what you want but it makes you no differant than me other than this is my thread set up for a differant purpose than its intent. You High Jacked a thread, bad mouthed me and others and defend it because I am the bad guy? It don't fly.
 
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Because it doesn't work economically. There is the same amount of effort in faking a $3 tip as it does to fake a $25 tip. By the time you buy the tip and have it labeled, there is no room for profit when doing it with a $3 tip.

Additionally, I don't see the infatuation as to where they are made. What's the difference if they are made in Tom's back yard or Timbuktu? If the tips play well and you like it, are you going to not use it if you found out it was made in Timbuktu?

I as well don't understand the importance of where these tips are made. As I read through this thread I keep asking myself who, or why would someone make such a stink about this. Maybe, I'm missing something, but just my two cents.

I have received two orders from Tom, (great product at a great price). I am happy to say I've been playing with a hard Ultraskin layered cue tip for about a month now and I love it. I've installed 7 on customers cues and all have said they would have another Ultaskin installed on their next re-tip. Tom, I think you have a great product, and I will be a continued customer! Tom, you are welcome to use my review on your website, but free tips are not neccessary. I didn't write this for free tips. I wrote it in appreciation of your product. Thanks! :grin:
 
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I'm only responding to this comment because it pertains to me specifically. Won't happen dude, anyone that knows me, here and on the reality side of life knows that I speak truthfully and from the heart. If I say it, I mean it, and If I mean it, I say it. There will never be an ultraskin layered tip installed by me, nothing against the quality of the product at all, just a matter of principal at this point. I grew up in a family business, and how a seller treats ALL people is important to me. It's amazing to me how so many will overlook a seller's behavior towards a potential buyer who asked a couple of innocent and simple questions. Is it due to feeling like they are with the 'in crowd' and also saving a few bucks on a tip, I don't know, but to each their own. I'm out, got better things to do.
Have a great weekend everyone.

Dave

This sounds like another of your posts I read in the past where you discussed your social evolution and convinced us regarding your righteousness and integrity. Impressive!
 
I am also going to use ultra skin layered tips on all of my cues and shafts.
The only thing, I wish the hards were a little harder.
I am going to try pressing and see if that makes a difference.
Great tips, great price!!
 
I got my special price selection of tips in record time!:thumbup:
I decided to start in the middle with a medium as I've always preferred a soft tip and I've decided to try the harder ones.
I put my own tips on the old fashioned way with Tweeten's glue and the rubber band clamp, then trim with a razor knife and shape with a bastard file.
I love the way my new tip plays! It holds chalk well and I can really move the cue ball with it.
And I don't give a damn where he gets them:grin:
 
Tom
I wouldn't care if you had these made on the moon. Great tip, great price and fast shipping.
Thanks
Marc
 
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