Pocket Reducers....
- Thread starter wild west
- Start date
i've got a set. i usually use 1 at a time. they're frustrating.
Unless you are starting w/ 6" pockets, they make the hole too small. They are good to shoot balls from the center of the table into though. With ball-in-hand and over and over again, just to get dialed in...
S
Snoogi
Guest
Not sure if this topic was covered before but it can only be used for practice purposes. No need special drills, you can invent anything for yourself as long as it serves you well. Just roll out the balls and shoot also can. And it's also impossible to run the balls if you're shooting anywhere below 9cm. I'm shooting 8cm, only going for aiming and pocketing, not running and no cheating. You can try it but be prepared your hair autoperm due to frustration, smoking. Nonetheless you can take it as a workout on mental stamina and tolerance. Just play around, real games cannot use.wild west said:
older ones
A friend had a set of the older, more expensive ones.
They were U shaped, sort of like the plastic "pocket protectors"
that fit inside the pockets to protect them. The older ones
I am speaking of, were only for the four corners, but they
could be used in regular games. They had a second
layer near the middle.
They were black, and my friend ended up putting green
tape on the ends, as they are black and from a distance
it was hard to see the edge of them against the black of
the pocket opening.
I think they were about $150, but I don't remember the
name of them. I think they were called pocket reducers
also, so it's the brand name I don't remember.
A friend had a set of the older, more expensive ones.
They were U shaped, sort of like the plastic "pocket protectors"
that fit inside the pockets to protect them. The older ones
I am speaking of, were only for the four corners, but they
could be used in regular games. They had a second
layer near the middle.
They were black, and my friend ended up putting green
tape on the ends, as they are black and from a distance
it was hard to see the edge of them against the black of
the pocket opening.
I think they were about $150, but I don't remember the
name of them. I think they were called pocket reducers
also, so it's the brand name I don't remember.
wild west said:
My old table had fairly large pockets, at least 5" corners. After putting pocket reducers in, you could barely squeeze a ball through, and it had to go totally clean. Any bounce against the rubber gripped the ball too much and it had no chance to drop.
Basically the triangular-shaped rubber that is used to reduce the pocket was not well thought-out in my opinion.
There is a picture and description of modified pocket reducers on the web. If I were to ever use pocket reducers again, I'd definitely try that route. The results look like they'd play much more like a shimmed pocket than the standard reducers do:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=445881
I've considered trying these things but I have a feeling (and I may be wrong) that it is perhaps more important to gain confidence and a positive experience practicing as it is to attempt to hone accuracy via these reducers.
So long as the table plays within the realm of average pocket size, I think these reducers may be as bad for our mental game as they profess to be good for our physical game.
I think most average to advanced players see the shots and the contact point correctly. I think the key to being more consistent pocketing balls lies in our stroke.
I think it's so extremely important to (as I've mentioned before) duplicate exactly our actual stroke to our last practice stroke which must be correct.
In other words, I don't think advanced players miss because they don't sight the shots correctly, I think shots are missed because the execution is off.
Pocket reducers won't enhance execution IMO, I think they will impede our mental state and force us toward a more conscious mental state while executing our stroke rather than an unconscious feel or image of the process, which is much more important.
So long as the table plays within the realm of average pocket size, I think these reducers may be as bad for our mental game as they profess to be good for our physical game.
I think most average to advanced players see the shots and the contact point correctly. I think the key to being more consistent pocketing balls lies in our stroke.
I think it's so extremely important to (as I've mentioned before) duplicate exactly our actual stroke to our last practice stroke which must be correct.
In other words, I don't think advanced players miss because they don't sight the shots correctly, I think shots are missed because the execution is off.
Pocket reducers won't enhance execution IMO, I think they will impede our mental state and force us toward a more conscious mental state while executing our stroke rather than an unconscious feel or image of the process, which is much more important.
S
Snoogi
Guest
You can round off the sharp edges so that it won't be so irritating.Cuebacca said:
That's exactly what all poolplayers are trying to do, maintain consistency not only in the strokes but the whole game so that they can win and win and win again and again.3andstop said:
I've some I've modified so they are not so unnatural. I posted the details before and can search for them if you really interested.wild west said:
EDIT: Here are the details:
I absolutely hate them as them come, but some alteration can make them really good.
I bought them and after I'd used them a couple of times decided they were totally useless and they just gathered dust on a shelf... until somebody posted the below thread on RSB. With them altered as shown in the below picture they suddenly became very useful allowing NATURAL shots and ball reaction with a reduced pocket width. I play games with them that way, not just use them for practice shot making. You might want to give it a try, it is a cheap experiment. Additionally, I put the pocket reducers in upside down so that the spring is in the pocket rather than over it. This way the spring doesn't interfer with any shots; it makes it a bit more difficult emptying the pockets, but that's no big deal.
See explaination here.
See pictures here.
Last edited:
wild west said:
Are you planning to join a Russian Pyramid tournament or somethin'?
wild west said:
I have a pair and before I got my 4 1/4" Diamond, I used them a lot for short periods of time during my practice.
I used all six of them and just shot balls in. In drills, they can make your stroke get to tight and not relaxed.
The only good use I found for them is to shoot (loosely/no tension/relaxed) with them for about 1/2 hour before a tournament. This should stick with you for a couple of hours.
Recommend tightening up your pockets - double shimmed or even tripple shimmed to get the long lasting effect my tight Diamond table has given me.
I have a set that I use to practice just running racks. I play on Black Crowns and I don't find the pockets tight at all. I find using the reducers makes me focus on every shot more and take nothing for granted...much like when I used to play snooker. Then as the action shows up at the pool hall take them off and then play. The same focus and new found confidence with the larger pockets and you will be in the money.
The set I have, I bought it at www.thewinningstroke.com can be set right in the front of the pocket so you can still shoot and hit the deep inside of the pocket which is where you want to aim normally anyway IMO. It only affects shots played too short or wide thus forcing you to pot the ball closer to true center.
In short, I like them.
The set I have, I bought it at www.thewinningstroke.com can be set right in the front of the pocket so you can still shoot and hit the deep inside of the pocket which is where you want to aim normally anyway IMO. It only affects shots played too short or wide thus forcing you to pot the ball closer to true center.
In short, I like them.
one of the best training aids out there as far as i am concerned.
some argue they give negative feedback. well, only if you miss the center of the pocket. and in that case, as far as i am concerned they give you positive feedback in telling you that something is wrong somewhere. setup, stance, aim, delivery, something isnt quite right.
and if you do drill them through you also get positive feedback that everything is clicking and you should be brimming with confidence.
just my $.02.
DCP
some argue they give negative feedback. well, only if you miss the center of the pocket. and in that case, as far as i am concerned they give you positive feedback in telling you that something is wrong somewhere. setup, stance, aim, delivery, something isnt quite right.
and if you do drill them through you also get positive feedback that everything is clicking and you should be brimming with confidence.
just my $.02.
DCP
S
Snoogi
Guest
Amazing, how they whack the balls into the pockets.crosseyedjoe said:Well, just get one of these Russian Pyramid tables. Once you can run balls on this baby, you can even give Efren Reyes the 3ball,
Anyway those who hate pocket reducers can also get the same effect by shooting poolballs on a snooker table. Got this idea from a friend who once yelled that the reducers made his 7footer become a 9footer.
Bigger surface, longer distance, smaller holes, bigger balls..
I have used the "Practice Pro" brand pocket reducers. The ones with the green triangular bumpers on the spring. I must say that I have found them enormously helpful to my game. If you want to evaluate their effectiveness over a period of a few hours or even a few weeks, then you will probably find them useless. I have an 8' Brunswick table with double shimmed pockets. They are about 4 7/8 to begin with. The pockets become 3.5" with the reducers, and you can't touch the rubber at all or the ball won't go in. I would attribute my progress from a "C" player to a borderline A/B player in a large part to frequent practice with these. The point is this: can you shoot the ball where you are trying to shoot it or not? The slight variation in object ball aim allowed by bigger pockets makes a huge difference in position play. For this reason, I think the pocket reducers have helped my position play as much as my accuracy. This is because I am simply forced to play position right, instead of playing position with my aim. I have developed a much greater sense of exactly where I am striking the cue ball. This helps the control of my break as well.
When I first started with the pocket reducers, I would roll out all 15 balls and just try to shoot them in. I couldn't even consider trying to play position. Now I can run out the rack pretty regularly, and play position even better. Playing 9-ball is surely tough. Or playing 8 ball. I think the best drill is to just try an run out--the point of the drill is to really focus on the details: exact tip placement, speed and straightness of stroke, etc.
The number one thing that the pocket reducers revealed to me is that the # 1 component to accuracy is your stance, and how you form it. The ability to align your body to the shot repeatably cannot be underestimated. Most people think they miss shots because they must have aimed them wrong. I believe this to be false in almost all cases. The mind is nearly magic in its ability to perform this function accurately. The problem comes from not stroking along the line of aim, which comes from not properly alinging you body to the line of aim. Try running balls and focusing on exactly how you step into your stance. Focus on how the LINE of the shot remains in your attention while you are stepping into position. I guess some people do not care about these components to pool, or find it too tedious to be enjoyable. Still, I think it is really worthwhile and certainly a good reality check on how your fundamentals are.
Hope this long post helps,
Kerry
When I first started with the pocket reducers, I would roll out all 15 balls and just try to shoot them in. I couldn't even consider trying to play position. Now I can run out the rack pretty regularly, and play position even better. Playing 9-ball is surely tough. Or playing 8 ball. I think the best drill is to just try an run out--the point of the drill is to really focus on the details: exact tip placement, speed and straightness of stroke, etc.
The number one thing that the pocket reducers revealed to me is that the # 1 component to accuracy is your stance, and how you form it. The ability to align your body to the shot repeatably cannot be underestimated. Most people think they miss shots because they must have aimed them wrong. I believe this to be false in almost all cases. The mind is nearly magic in its ability to perform this function accurately. The problem comes from not stroking along the line of aim, which comes from not properly alinging you body to the line of aim. Try running balls and focusing on exactly how you step into your stance. Focus on how the LINE of the shot remains in your attention while you are stepping into position. I guess some people do not care about these components to pool, or find it too tedious to be enjoyable. Still, I think it is really worthwhile and certainly a good reality check on how your fundamentals are.
Hope this long post helps,
Kerry
that was very well written Kerry, nice job. again, i think they are one of the absolute best teaching aids.
DCP
DCP
MTfish
Registered
I've played a lot with reducers and think they have helped my game. When I go to a table with normal packets they seem like buckets and my confidence goes up. Pradcticing with the reducers has also made me more aware of how much my hit on the object ball can affect the line my cue ball takes. I think the reducers have helped my posistion play as well as my shot making (although both suck).