Pool instructors and their level of play??

[CrownCityCorey]

Does it matter if someone can play or not 2 B an instructor?

I kno that U don`t have 2 play like a pro 2 B a good instructor, but don`t U have 2 play decent, at least??

Do U think NE1 that plays below a B level can B a good instructor 4 stuff above the basic stuff?

Brian

It depends on what aspect of the game they are teaching you.

Hal Mix was a long time coach and teacher of Nick Varner, and Hal could not play a lick! Nick was the #1 player for years and World Champion many times under Hal's wing.

For an instructor to teach fundamentals, strategy, game theory, and the like, IMO they at least need to be proficient themselves. They need the ability to demonstrate what they are saying.

 

[ceebee]

Teaching anything is an art. And the teacher does have to possess the knowledge, in order to impart it. Possessing the ability to play, at some higher than normal level, makes it easier to display to the student what your trying to communicate.

COMMUNICATE <<<<< now there's a word. This is a big part of teaching. Without the abilty to connect with the student, imparting 100% of the knowledge, might be impaired.

Today we have many formats for learning, we have diagrams in books & videos to show us the desired methods, but the one remaining ingredient is someone to watch you & fine tune your application skills. A good instructor can help you learn the basics & become a good solid player, then the Instructor can "coach" you along the way, as you continually hone your skills.

Many of our great players have all mentioned someone they had as a mentor. Most of them were NATURALS, they just needed some help to find their way.

 

[smoooothstroke]

baseball

Some of the best baseball managers and coaches never made it out of the miner leagues as a player.You see baseball teams hire former players who were lifetime 320 hitters,3k hits etc.They almost always flop when it comes to being a batting coach.

The best coaches in baseball are usually mediocre former players.A back-up catcher who had maybe 400 at bats in the majors after spending 12 years in the miners can be the best hitting coach.The same is true with pitching,a guy with 20 career wins can still tell Greg Maddox when his mechanics are getting out of line.

 

[Eric.]

Some of the best baseball managers and coaches never made it out of the miner leagues as a player.You see baseball teams hire former players who were lifetime 320 hitters,3k hits etc.They almost always flop when it comes to being a batting coach.

The best coaches in baseball are usually mediocre former players.A back-up catcher who had maybe 400 at bats in the majors after spending 12 years in the miners can be the best hitting coach.The same is true with pitching,a guy with 20 career wins can still tell Greg Maddox when his mechanics are getting out of line.

I love baseball analogies, and agree with what you are saying, except that minor leaguers are "mediocre players".

Minor league level players are very good baseball players, even at the single A level. A Single A level minor league player might be compared to a strong A level poolplayer. An AAA minor leaguer might be compared to pool's "open" player or shortstop, no?

Do you think a player that played at a very good High School level would be a good coach?


Eric

 

[JMW]

Androd,

I stand corrected... Tom Landry was more than a punter. He played the game at many positions. Which probably helped him become an innovator in the long run. Not great at one position but good at many. He understood the complete game.

The point I am trying to make is that he is in the hall of fame for his coaching abilities and not playing abilities.

We sure miss Tom here in Dallas!!!

JW

 

[Brian in VA]

I'm in the camp that believes that playing ability and teaching ability have nothing to do with each other. A good pool teacher needs the following in order to be successful:

1. The knowledge of what excellence looks like and what it will look like in a specific learner.

2. The observational skills to see what things that learner is doing that don't contribute to their individual excellence.

3. The communication skill to pass along those things to the learner and provide alternative positive behaviors that, if executed, will produce excellence (or at least, improvement).

4. A learner that is truly open to learning, motivated to improve, diligent enough to practice and forgives themselves for doing it "not quite right" while in the learning phase.

Are there great players that have those first 3 skills? Sure but there aren't many of them; they usually lack at least one of them.

Are there great teachers that have all 3 and aren't necessarily good players? Sure! They usually have enough ability to demonstrate what they need to get across to the learner, though even that's not a necessity if they are really good communicators.

In the end, 50% of being a good teacher is having good students. I have a friend that's a golf instructor. He refers to those students that want the quick fix/one move/golden egg fix as "guys that are putting a band-aid on cancer."

Golf and pool are a lot alike. At some point in time, they both make everyone look stupid. And, you have to play your ass off just to be adequate.

Just my opinion - your mileage may vary.

Brian in VA

 

[ShootingArts]

I did address age

Some of you will have to take in the matter of age. I learned One Pocket for a local named Eddie Ryan.Eddie played a lot of road men and when I was playing him I spotted him a ball. His stroke was not as good and didn't draw as in his younger days, I'm finding that out now. But his knowledge of the game was worth it all. I can teach young players the basic of pool , diamond system and my insight on one pocket ,.although my eye sight is not as sharp as went I too was younger . Wish that when I was drilling ball back then I had the understanding as I do now.

Actually I did address age and/or physical changes with this sentence quoted from my first post: "Talking about instructors that can't and never have been able to do what they are trying to teach, I would say that less than one in a hundred can do a good job of teaching complicated tasks."

Joe Villalpando isn't who I would choose to take down the money in a match against the strongest young guns but Joe would be one of my first choices as an instructor. Joe is super smart, once played at a very respectable level, and has a deep understanding of the game. Most importantly, Joe has a real love of teaching and transferring his knowledge, most obvious now that his physical condition no longer allows him to play at the level he once did. Older players with the knowledge of a lifetime are the best place to learn, if they have a willingness to share. Unfortunately, many, even many that teach, hold back much of their knowledge begrudging others learning easily what they had to learn the hard way.

One reason I think the best is yet to come as far as the quality of pool play is that youngsters are able to learn what we know now at an early age. Using Joe as an example again, It took me years and thousands of dollars to learn what Joe almost gives away in a few hours on his DVD's. Others are also teaching and producing great DVD's. As a result I am seeing youngsters with shot selection, shooting, and shape knowledge that people the same age simply didn't have in the seventies and eighties.

Hu

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I do not think one need be a GREAT Player to be a Great Teacher. They do need Great Teaching Skills.

 

[stikapos]

The issue here is "the fundamentals". Everything else is a derivation of that. So, who can teach the fundamentals ?? Most likely, someone who has had the worst time of mastering them. Am I supposed to learn from someone who is naturally gifted and can't explain how they do it ?

No offense meant, but exactly how am I supposed to learn from someone like Buddy Hall ? The man has a stroke few can match, but is he going to be able to teach me how I am best to play the game ? Could be. I never had a lesson from Buddy. But if he said, "hit it here with this english and the cue will do this...", I'm not sure my stroke would get it done!

That is the question here. How can I teach you the fundamentals in language you can understand and can execute so that someday, "the light turns on" and you progress on your own or by watching others ?


tim

 

[Milo]

Some of the best baseball managers and coaches never made it out of the miner leagues as a player.You see baseball teams hire former players who were lifetime 320 hitters,3k hits etc.They almost always flop when it comes to being a batting coach.

The best coaches in baseball are usually mediocre former players.A back-up catcher who had maybe 400 at bats in the majors after spending 12 years in the miners can be the best hitting coach.The same is true with pitching,a guy with 20 career wins can still tell Greg Maddox when his mechanics are getting out of line.

This is a POOL forum Jer.

But back on subject, I think you have to really know your stuff to teach. And know HOW to teach without neccessarily being a great player.

 

[smoooothstroke]

This is a POOL forum Jer.

But back on subject, I think you have to really know your stuff to teach. And know HOW to teach without neccessarily being a great player.

This is an analogy Andrea :wink:

 

[tonyc]

I think having a good player teach you is a bonus, Someone that can go through the motions and play the shots they are teaching is huge. If you can find someone that is qualified in both this is the way I would go certified or not.

I teach many players from beginner to Pro and feel I wouldnt be able to do this if I hadnt had the experience on both levels. The main thing to remember is as long your having fun you will learn.

Thanks
www.tonycrosby.com

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[tonyc]

Yes I will agree with you there, There are a lot of good teachers that are not known as great players but do understand the game. On e of my former coaches was not a great player but he was one hell of a good coach, He was however able to perform most shots he was trying to teach, which I think is a huge plus.
Thanks
Tony

 

[Earl Grey]

Somewhat Off-Topic

Mike Sigel has always said that the late Irving Crane helped him very little when they were both still in Rochester; Mosconi taught nobody I know of except Paul Newman.

This brought up an interesting question I've always had about great players such as Mosconi: if Mosconi taught very few people, is it because he was incapable or unwilling to teach them? I ask this because it seems that sometimes the better players are not willing to teach what they know, even if they were to be paid. Perhaps they are keeping their secrets to themselves? Thoughts, anyone?

EG

 

[eddieindetroit]

I don't think you can play pool at a high level without quite a bit of talent, practice time and seasoning.
I do believe that one could become one of the best instructors around with only the practice time and seasoning.
I don't think that a great pool or golf instructor has to be able to play at a very high level if they can empathize with their student and comunicate well.

Eddie

 

[CrownCityCorey]

I find it interesting that nobody has cited Hal Mix, who was consistently sought out by Nick Varner and other top players yet couldn't play a lick. GF

Ha, ha! We said almost the same thing!

I swear I did not read your post before my comment on Hal. He was a nice old man.

 

[pooltchr]

Most of the good instructors are not top players. That is because they spend their time teaching and learning, not playing.

.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head right here. Great players put in hours and hours of practicing and playing. Great instructors put in hours and hours of learning and teaching. Most good instructors are pretty good players. When you spend days teaching students, the things you teach them are constantly being renforced in your own game. But most of us will never be considered great players, simply because we put our time and effort into becoming better instructors.

Steve

 

[Scott Lee]

On the other other hand, there some instructors, making a solid living teaching champions, among the newbies...and everyone in between! BTW, what is "inventing status"?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

On the other hand there are scores of instructors out there, in any discipline who make a solid living teaching newbies and inventing status.

 

[Scott Lee]

Well...to be "accurate"...you played REAL GOOD the last time we played...and I was blind that day! But don't count me out yet! We've only played once...game on!:grin: Oh, and since you're a lock...I'll take the last 3 and the snap! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I'm no real good player, but I would have the best of it if Scott and I matched up.