pool is dieing, what are you doing about it?

[Fatboy]

The image must change. Once the sport of aristocrats, it has degenerated into the pasttime of boozing thugs (present company excepted, but that's the image).

• Accentuate the positives: It is a social sport, great for the whole family, fun for friends.
• Even if you buy your own table, it is relatively inexpensive to get in to, and can be played year-round.
• Frequent and support the family-friendly sports restaurants. Suggest they get tables if they don't already have them.
• The kids have Nintendo and PS3. If THEY don't start playing pool, we could be very close to the end.
• Buy a table for your own home, if you don't already have one.
• Demand legue play that you would feel comfortable inviting your wife or mother to join.
• Clean up our act.
• Watch it on TV as much as you can. Call or write the sponsors to say thanks. More TV means more players means better equipment means more TV....

No disrespect but Drugs, Booze and Smoking have bad images and are thriving. They sadly all have alot of particaption despite their image.

Tennis has a great image and its not to healthy either.

Being an internet geek playing online games dosent have and image and thats where the 13-23 years old are playing online video games.

Image isnt the problem, distractions are.

 

[cyrex]

West Coast Cue Show

Good post Fatboy.
I have to say, DJKeys and myself had this idea to do a cue exhibition with the hopes that we could get some friends together and meet some new friends while seeing some nice cues. Well, we got so much enthusiastic support from cuemakers and collectors and pool fans from all over that our idea grew and grew until it turned into a full on 'event'. We went from renting a couple of tables to booking out the entire pool room!

I've been so impressed with everyone that has stepped up to help and participate. It's been great and we are really looking forward to meeting everyone. We've got AZ'ers that are flying from across the states to attend and lots of other people coming in from out of town. That's some great support!

And just look at this forum. It continues to thrive with insightful threads, a fantastic 'for sale/wtb' section, advice from pros, cuemakers, collectors, tournament info.. etc...

Pool may be hurting, but it's far from dieing.

 

[ribdoner]

A much higher % of $ stayed in ACTION years ago.

As of now a significant chunk is banked by those on the periphery or off loaded to casinos.

 

[Scott Lee]

Eric...That's not true. I never hit a ball in my life, until I was 18 and went to college. That was 1971...37 years ago. I was also well educated, a state-ranked tennis player, and regional ski racing ace...just never had been exposed to pool. Look at me now...making a great living as a pool educator and entertainer, doing what I believe I was born to do!

I'm doing my part to keep pool alive and well, by teaching others, and spreading 'the word' to as many people as possible...on a daily basis!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

The other guy is 20 and the other night was the first time in his life he EVER played 20 years old and never hit a ball??? That was impossible a few years ago, absolutely 100% impossible to be 20 years old and never played pool once, and he didnt grow up living a sheltered life at all, he is well educated, travelled professional photographer, this kid has his shit together and has never hit a ball.

 

[tattoosbyjay]

we need a really good pool movie that the general public would go see ,

 

[tattoosbyjay]

Did anyone notice the Cue Sports International's newest project - National Championship Series? It's designed to reign the official State Champions and through different tiers of regional championship eventually send the US National Champion to the World Stages! All expense paid with some spending cash too It's very exciting. More press release to come as they iron out the details. Stay tuned

S.

now this sounds like a good idea

 

[Danktrees]

as far as your friend being 20 and never having played pool... I'm 36, coordinated and athletic. I've never played baseball.

thats so different, it's hard to get 18 guys together to play a proper game of baseball.

pool u really only need 1 person...including yourself lol.

i try to get my friends to play pool, but they're all worse than me so they choose not to play. i also dont want to play like crap just to make them feel better either so i have to find other friends to play with if i'm going to the poolhall. that seems to be the major problem. and i find that people need to actually play for a bit before you can teach them basic stuff. sometimes when i go out with my friends and we end up in a poolhall they'll ask me how to do certain shots and when i explain to them they dont know what i mean. to me its a simple shot or a simple execution but they just dont see it. so its really hard to get them interested unless they have played for a bit themselves.

i'm fortunate that my parents dont care that i play pool. i thought they'd be mad when i started dropping thousands of dollars on cues and stuff but i found that they're fine with it as long as it's my own money lol. they dont seem to have any problem with me gambling either in pool, at the casino or sports betting either. i guess its cuz im chinese...gambling is in the blood :grin:.

 

[BlowFish]

I'll support this sport as much as I can, but convencing my kids to take up the sport seriously is out of the question. I've seen it when I was a small boy until High School and the future is ain't going to be good for them. Starting college, I virtually stopped playing for the next 15yrs. I just recently came back to the game 8yrs ago and it's still the same. My love for this game will not die, but it's difficult to make a living out of this sport.

 

[Fatboy]

we need a really good pool movie that the general public would go see ,

we need to relaease the movie after we write a virus that james up all the video games online. we must sabatoge other form of entertainment.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I give something to pool everyday it seems,I am constantly networking and trying improve my stream and bring more pool to the masses.I think that more people who watch and get bit by the bug the better.I have been finding more and more people showing interest in what I am doing and also looking to sponsor what I am doing,the numbers are there and only going to grow which makes for good advertising.I do believe the closest thing to being pools savior is live streaming,the internet and of course this great forum which brings us together so easily. :smile:

 

[softshot]

I am currently finalizing a weekly local tournament. the only one for 70-80 miles in any direction , and have almost talked a bar owner into having the ONLY public 9 foot tables for 70 or 80 miles in any direction..

 

[smoooothstroke]

right on!

we need to relaease the movie after we write a virus that james up all the video games online. we must sabatoge other form of entertainment.

Rep to you FB,maybe your best post ever!









ok not really gonna rep ya but good stuff

 

[Travis Bickle]

I'll support this sport as much as I can, but convincing my kids to take up the sport seriously is out of the question.

I think a lot of us could say this! Could be for the smoky/seedy side of it. Or the risk/reward equation. Then again, what are the odds of financial success for young Little Leaguers, swimmers or gymnasts?

I think these other pursuits, though, have to be seen as more healthy by most parents. The biggest danger of taking up pool, as far as I'm concerned, and the main reason I'm going easy on exposing my kids to the game, is the obsessional nature of it. You could practice tennis for 3, 4, 5 hours a day, no doubt, and get hooked a bit (as I did in my teens), but you can't really go at it 12 hours a day, right? And at least you'll end up in great shape from so much tennis!

But the old "misspent youth" line is no joke. Get sucked in too soon and you'll hardly have time and mental energy left over for schooling. I'm sure it's great to be an A player at 17 ... but where do you go from there if you're not one of the lucky ones who have what it takes to be a champ (and even then!)? And let's say you paid the usual dues as far as book learning goes ...

Love the game and am always handing out books, dvds and limited advice to any folks I run into who seem to show an interest in the sport, but am getting cautious on the home front.

 

[SJDinPHX]

I think a lot of us could say this! Could be for the smoky/seedy side of it. Or the risk/reward equation. Then again, what are the odds of financial success for young Little Leaguers, swimmers or gymnasts?

I think these other pursuits, though, have to be seen as more healthy by most parents. The biggest danger of taking up pool, as far as I'm concerned, and the main reason I'm going easy on exposing my kids to the game, is the obsessional nature of it. You could practice tennis for 3, 4, 5 hours a day, no doubt, and get hooked a bit (as I did in my teens), but you can't really go at it 12 hours a day, right? And at least you'll end up in great shape from so much tennis!

But the old "misspent youth" line is no joke. Get sucked in too soon and you'll hardly have time and mental energy left over for schooling. I'm sure it's great to be an A player at 17 ... but where do you go from there if you're not one of the lucky ones who have what it takes to be a champ (and even then!)? And let's say you paid the usual dues as far as book learning goes ...

Love the game and am always handing out books, dvds and limited advice to any folks I run into who seem to show an interest in the sport, but am getting cautious on the home front.

You make a lot of good points, Travis. The risk/reward ratio in pool has never been that good. But I can tell you got bit by the "pool bug" at an early age, just as I did. As Fatboy observed, in an earlier post, the kid's of today are hooked on video games, so much so, that about one more generation
and we won't have ANY athletes, OR pool players. We have some great parks and ball diamonds here in Phx. yet on a beautiful Spring,or Fall day,
they are deserted. Is it any wonder most of our kids are overweight.
Sad, but true. :frown:

 

[berlowmj]

marketing studies need to be done

I have 2 friends staying here with me at the moment, one grew up with a snooker table and he is a D+ player but comes with some great shots, his dad has a 12' box, he is about 27 and has moved out buit plays once in a while. He is here working with/for me on a marketing gig.

The other guy is 20 and the other night was the first time in his life he EVER played 20 years old and never hit a ball??? That was impossible a few years ago, absolutely 100% impossible to be 20 years old and never played pool once, and he didnt grow up living a sheltered life at all, he is well educated, travelled professional photographer, this kid has his shit together and has never hit a ball. WOW where is pool going??? There just isnt the interest, parents arnt like Jerry Benke who taught all his kids how to play, pool isnt being passed down. its getting passed off.

pool is dieing, what are you doing about it?

1. Our population is aging. The benefits of pool for senior citizens need to be emphasized. (a) I took up the game at age 66, because unlike powerlifting & martial arts, I could pursue it with full intensity without injury. (b) pool instruction could be offered in senior citizen centers so that the covers might actually be removed from the pool tables, which are often decaying in those centers (c) it is a highly cerebral game, which makes it likely to ward off senility (d) seniors are taking up Tai Chi to deal with problems of balance, arthritis,... the merits of pool could be emphasized for the same reasons as well as hand eye coordination

2. Families need to find forms of entertainment which bring them together. Pool is ideal, but pool halls & Forums need to be more family friendly. (a) Distinguish between professional gamblers & criminal elements & banish the latter. (b) Become smoke free. (c) Serve better food rather than emphasizing alcohol. (d) Be more selective in choosing the music in pool halls (e) Be sensitive to sexism. (1) For example, despite the high level of instruction & generousity on this Forum, I suspect that all but the most self actualized women would be discouraged from spending much time on this Forum. (2) Male pool players are generous with their instruction to other males, but often treat instruction as a means of seduction when dealing with women. (3) Pool dates often appear to be more recreational &/or opportunities for macho exhibitionism rather than opportunities for instruction & equitable collaboration.

3. Character building & socialization of youth- Team sports such as basketball, baseball, & football are perceived as rites of passage for our youth especially males. Pool could be seen as equivalent.

4. Curriculum infusion- (a) Many biographies of pool players are exciting & could be incorporated into American literature curriculum (b) pool could be incorporated into the curriculum of physics, mathematics, & multicultural education (especially Asian & European culture)

 

[JAM]

You know, I've been playing pool close to 20 years.

I've supported pool enough.
If pool dies tomorrow, i will not care.

I do rather enjoy the expos that Allen puts on, and i do enjoy the weekend events, but sometimes life gets in the way. I just have too much other stuff to do.

But supporting pool isn't enough.

You need some MAJOR shift in peoples perception of pool.
The color of money DID just that, and in the late 80's early 90's, pool was jumping. All movies since then have sucked.
Until there is something mainstream that serves that purpose, pool will continue going downhill.
Plus you have poker now. Who wants to go out and endure dogging their brains out to try get better when they can just blame cold cards or a bad beat.
Pool will NEVER be the same again until poker is dealt with somehow.

It doesn't help that money in pool sucks. Who wants to be a player or aspire to be one or dream about it when the money isn't there?

Just look at the 14.1 tournament.
It's like $10,000 for first. For a world championship.
The prize money was better 20 years ago.
I was talking to a guy last night about this, and he said that someone we knew finished the preliminary rounds last year, to move into the final rounds of play. For being one of the guys who managed to plug away and get out of the individual brackets, he was guaranteed not only to play World Champions from that point on, but was also guaranteed $250 once he got knocked out in the first elimination round.

Factor in that he had to get the room at the hotel in Jersey for a ridiculous amount for the week. He was stuck, big time. Why even bother.
People are correct to think that pool players are broke, cause the majority of them ARE.

As for promoters and events, Hopkins has the right idea.

He is someone who has a certain "vision" of the future. Granted, it didn't take off this last time, but he is definitely on the right track.
If i am going to support anything, it will be his events.
He has contacts with ESPN, and his expo has been consistent enough for me to not question his motives.
Sure he makes his yearly nut off of it, but regardless, he has promoted it and made it a staple of the pool yearly schedule. I'm sure he will find a way to end up with the right combination that can work.

As usual, your reply is right on the money [pun intended]. Very astute observation, one that comes from somebody who knows the industry well! :grin-square:

If somebody asked me this question 7 years ago, I could have come up with a hundred positive replies.

Today, I don't have an answer. After seeing it up front and close, professional pool is in a tough spot here in the United States. Even the IPT's tour with the first-class venues, green rooms, and multi-million-dollar purses didn't seem to give pool a rise in the popularity chart.

The regional tours are the best bang for the buck. Of course, today, the trend for regional tours is to exclude the pros.

IMHO, pool will do okay as a recreational game for league players, social shooters, bar bangers, et cetera. Pool is to Philippines like soccer is to Brazil. The United States has MLB, NFL, NBA, PGA, tennis, Nascar, et cetera. Pool will never take the place of any of those in America. Corporate sponsors go where the masses go.

That's my opinion. I'm not saying it's right, but that's my opinion in 2008. I hope I'm dead wrong.

JAM

 

[smokeandapancak]

Pool isnt dying....

Ask the APA
Ask the Euro Tour
Ask the Guieuness Tour
Ask Meucci
Ask Preadator
Ask Diamond
Ask Schon
Ask Southwest
Ask those Factories in China that mass produce 10's of thousands of cues a day.
Ask the guys who get paid thousands of dollars to hold a few days worth of instruction.

Those guys at the tops of those chains are doing pretty good for themselves,

Would I like to see a big time nationwide organazation produce million dollar babies out of the top pros....? Sure why not, there is enough money out there for them to earn it if they can, but to me that doesnt make or break the game.

I enjoy being pretty good at something that most people aren't good at.... (butsomething that everyone knows about, not some oddball niche thing )

I enjoy being able to drop just one name of a player, and if a person regconizes that one thing then I KNOW that I have someone who I can have a great conversation with.

Mainstream..is alright I guess....but I really digg where it's at now.

 

[Johnnyt]

I agree with you Jam. I hate to say it, but unless someone with money comes along, I can only see higher entry fees for the pros and just the ones at the top making some kind of living at it. Johnnyt

 

[JAM]

I agree with you Jam. I hate to say it, but unless someone with money comes along, I can only see higher entry fees for the pros and just the ones at the top making some kind of living at it. Johnnyt

You are correct, Johnny.

Of course, there are some fans today who like it exactly the way it is, but they don't understand the pro arena. There's less than a handful of pros who are making ends meet shooting pool competitively. The cost to travel is too high, the payouts suck, and you must come in first, second, or third to break even.

What some don't realize too is that when you say a player earned $100,000 a year shooting pool in tournaments, the expenses could cut that in half or more, and then there's the taxes you must pay on that little bit of money. If a player is staked -- not sponsored, but staked -- a percentage of all winnings goes to the stakehorse.

It's kind of like that $100,000 could get reduced to 15- or $20,000 per annum in pocket.

Most of the pros who attend tournaments on a regular basis do pay taxes, and anything earned over 28 dimes gets a huge chop-chop by Uncle Sam.

Oh, yeah, let's not forget that all international players who compete on American soil get a third chop-chopped right out of their winnings. Then their stakehorse or backer gets their cut. And then there are crumbs left.

Any pool industry company that is making a profit is doing so with RECREATIONAL players, not professional pool. They are withdrawing their support for pro pool each year more and more. This year, 2008, there will be no WPC for 9-ball. Next year, there will be no BCA Open.

Again, pool as a game, recreational pool, is doing just fine and can sustain itself. Professional pool, at least in these United States, is suffering. The existing lot of American professional players is dwindling. Soon they won't be able to afford to travel to the international venues, the handful of them that are left.

JAM

 

[jason]

I also agree with JAM, Johnnyt, and SUPERSTAR. (Good Posts)

The pool infrastructure is deteriorating. What I mean by that is the number of places to play continues to shrink. We have been reporting for sometime now the closing of pool halls across the country.

In downtown Chicago, there are fewer and fewer places to play. Partially because of the vending laws and partially because of the cost of real estate. Per square foot, a pool table takes up a lot of space. I would estimate in the last 10 years, the number of places to play has dropped 65%.

With technology and new forms of video entertainment, I see this trend to continue for sometime. It will never disappear completely, put the slice of pie it hold in our world will be slimmer and slimmer.

As Black-Balled said, "I got out of its way, keepin' my day job and watching it wither..."

I will never invest the time in pool that I once did. To me, it is what it is and thats probably all it will ever be. So, I will treat it as such...simply recreational entertainment.