Poolhall Prices- Hurting Pool?

C

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are poolhalls charging too much for people to play, or are they forced to charge those prices? I can't count how many times I've seen $50 or $100 action end up losing a large chunk of it (and sometimes all of it) to the house because of table time.

If you really think about it, although a large percentage of the world's population (that has been exposed to the game) likes to play pool, they have wisened up to the fact that renting equipment for a game that does not involve electronics (to us its a sport, to them its a game), paying $12 or $14 per hour for just two or three players really isnt worth it in the long run to most people. I'm sure that the majority of recreational players want to get better at the game, but when they make an attempt to get some practice, they quickly realize how much money per week or per month its going to cost them, and they back out.

What other games or sports have been around for centuries, where the basic fundamentals of it have been the same since it was invented, would appeal to the average person and have them shell out $40 just to play it with a friend for a few hours?

I'm sure that many poolhall owners have considered lowering their rates just to test and see if it will increase business, so perhaps rent and other costs are preventing them are doing so. Is the game itself just a lost cause, and will it remain like it is today? When pool was in it's golden years, if you do the math and check the prices related to inflation, it was extremely cheap to play.
 
The high price of fun!

cuetechasaurus said:
Are poolhalls charging too much for people to play, or are they forced to charge those prices? I can't count how many times I've seen $50 or $100 action end up losing a large chunk of it (and sometimes all of it) to the house because of table time.

If you really think about it, although a large percentage of the world's population (that has been exposed to the game) likes to play pool, they have wisened up to the fact that renting equipment for a game that does not involve electronics (to us its a sport, to them its a game), paying $12 or $14 per hour for just two or three players really isnt worth it in the long run to most people. I'm sure that the majority of recreational players want to get better at the game, but when they make an attempt to get some practice, they quickly realize how much money per week or per month its going to cost them, and they back out.

What other games or sports have been around for centuries, where the basic fundamentals of it have been the same since it was invented, would appeal to the average person and have them shell out $40 just to play it with a friend for a few hours?

I'm sure that many poolhall owners have considered lowering their rates just to test and see if it will increase business, so perhaps rent and other costs are preventing them are doing so. Is the game itself just a lost cause, and will it remain like it is today? When pool was in it's golden years, if you do the math and check the prices related to inflation, it was extremely cheap to play.
Click to expand...

Great post! I think the pool halls are forced to charge because of the cost of living these days, but I DO think it hurts pool. I'm old enough to remember pool for 90 cents an hour where I grew up. To a teenager, that meant I could have played for 5 hours, and not even spend $5.00! Five bucks won't buy you 15 minutes in some places these days. That's a shame. I can see how young people don't gravitate toward pool. Hop on mommy and daddy's computer and play games for free, or go to the local pool hall and spend more money than your allowance, and you can't even afford fries!:eek:

I wish I knew the answer.:(
 
Great point, Cue.

When I was out on the road, I was amazed by the diversity of prices for pool table time and that was quite a while ago.

One time and I won't say where, my partner and I played for 2 hours and 5 minutes. The table time was $61 DOLLARS! $15 per hour per person. Didn't take long to figure out why we were the only ones there playing pool.

I live in San Antonio and as far as large cities, it's the cheapest place to play pool I've seen. Sunday through Thursday, you can find free pool somewhere in this city. In most rooms, it's free pool until 8:00 p.m. seven days a week and free pool all the time for ladies.

Also, most rooms give free pool or half price to their league players. For the general public, time runs between $6 or 8 per table, no matter how many players.

Still, if I were just starting out in another large city, I think I'd find another hobby.
 
Combine the high prices that some places charge and the poorly maintained equipment and the restrooms you do not want to even enter and you have the perfect recipe for no reason to go back..
I have gone to many pool halls only once, but when I find a well run, clean place I'll drive an hour each way just to play there... That is what I do now..
Dan
 
OUCH...... I have been away from civilization for too long. 60 bucks for 2 people for 2 hours??????
I remember one place that was like 8 bucks an hour on friday and saturday nights..... but geeze.
My dad told me about a place he use to play. Pool was a dime a game (may have been a nickle even, I cant remember). There was only 1 triangle in the place...... You called the desk guy over, you payed him the dime, and he racked the balls for you.
$15.00 an hour for one person now......... what happened to making money off the food and bar and letting the table time be the loss leader?
Chuck
 
When I was 16 my first job was a burger joint making $0.95/hour, pool was $1.25/hour=131% of my wage.
Today minimum wage is $7.15/hour and pool is $7.75/hour=108% of today's minimum wage.
Draw your own conclusions.

Steve
I'm just glad that burger joint was next door to the pool room. :)
 
the hall near me charges a daily special 11am to 6pm for $9.00....now that i have my own 9 ft.table i am enjoying it....the expenses for hall owners are going out the roof..1.rent 2.heat and air and you better hope your building is well insulated but usually it isn't. 3.liability insurance thank the lawyers and the people that sue over a hot french fry falling on their chin.......these are just the main expenses that i a customer and NOT a hall owner have thought of...:)
 
Pool doesn't have to be expensive, it's the room owners that often make it that way. Why? Perhaps they can't get a liquor license, perhaps there are hidden costs that are huge, like a great big rent, or heating, or whatever.

However, if I can't find a place to play that has a special rate at certain times of the day, and the table time comes to much more than $3.50 an hour per person, I'm not going to play there for long. I may play for an hour at $6 per hour just to stay in stroke, shooting power stroke shots and so on, but I'm not sticking around there after that.

IMHO, the good places to play have a good number of tables, say 20 or so, with food and hopefully beer, and have specials on pool: For instance: Chicago Billiard Cafe: noon to 5 for $5 total; or 3-8 for $7; Cue-Phoria in River Grove (near Chicago) FREE POOL Mon-Wed from opening at 2PM til closing at 2AM (is that a good deal, or what?? I forgot to say they want you to buy a couple of drinks, fine with me.) In northern VA, First Break in Sterling has a daily special: 11AM-7PM with free pool with an $8 purchase of food and drink; Fast Eddies has the same deal, but the hours are 11-5PM. Go to Dayton at Airway Billiards and while there are no specials, the table time is $3.50 an hour; same at Chris's in Chicago.

Once the table time gets too pricey, whaddaya expect??

Flex
 
RiverCity said:
OUCH...... I have been away from civilization for too long. 60 bucks for 2 people for 2 hours??????
I remember one place that was like 8 bucks an hour on friday and saturday nights..... but geeze.
My dad told me about a place he use to play. Pool was a dime a game (may have been a nickle even, I cant remember). There was only 1 triangle in the place...... You called the desk guy over, you payed him the dime, and he racked the balls for you.
$15.00 an hour for one person now......... what happened to making money off the food and bar and letting the table time be the loss leader?
Chuck
Click to expand...

Regular pool rooms seldom charge any prices like those mentioned. The high scale rooms do because they are getting the moddy set who are out fraternizing and have no idea what pool is supposed to cost. You have to remember also that the location of the room determines the prices they must charge. You rent by the square foot and tables with plenty of room around them use a lot of square feet. I hate to think what it would cost to rent 5,000 sq.ft. in San Francisco.

Dick
 
Don't forget to factor in the "patrons" that never buy anything - ask for tap water - never pay for table time - etc - blame those people, not the room owner. lol
 
cuetechasaurus said:
What other games or sports have been around for centuries, where the basic fundamentals of it have been the same since it was invented, would appeal to the average person and have them shell out $40 just to play it with a friend for a few hours?

.
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmm. Golf?

Steve
 
Well, if you are going to use math...

sde said:
When I was 16 my first job was a burger joint making $0.95/hour, pool was $1.25/hour=131% of my wage.
Today minimum wage is $7.15/hour and pool is $7.75/hour=108% of today's minimum wage.
Draw your own conclusions.

Steve
I'm just glad that burger joint was next door to the pool room. :)
Click to expand...

You'll lose most pool players.

Serious, and even semi-serious pool players have always had an aversion
to spending much money on pool time

the big problem these days is in most parts of the country the boom is
long gone, and it ain't comming back

what you find in poorooms these days is pretty much the same demographic that was there the week before 'The Color of Money'
was released

trouble is, the modest poolrooms where most people played back then
are almost all gone too, or they have increased prices over the years
and are on a par with all the yuppie joints, which are dying on the vine.

if I still owned a room, I would LOWER prices to a level aprox that
of 1985<adj for inflat> and hope to overcome today's nut.

The two big problems IMHO looming over pool
1. young people not taking up the game
2. Bar leagues, which have taken many of the guys, and a few gals
who used to be the backbone of poolrooms, away froom poolrooms
almost entirely

Dale
 
Get a grip!

I played pebble beach golf course about two seasons ago and paid 150.00
to play. It took 5 hours to get around so thats 30.00 per hour and I enjoyed every minute of it and never thought once about the amount of moneyit cost. What is it pool players not wanting to ante up? The overhead associated with a large room are phenomenal and during the summer there's no action but the overhead goes on and on! Pool players are cheap! If you don't want to pay table time buy a table and stay home.
The cost of running a business in todays world are unreal.
 
bankshots said:
I played pebble beach golf course about two seasons ago and paid 150.00
to play. It took 5 hours to get around so thats 30.00 per hour and I enjoyed every minute of it and never thought once about the amount of moneyit cost. What is it pool players not wanting to ante up? The overhead associated with a large room are phenomenal and during the summer there's no action but the overhead goes on and on! Pool players are cheap! If you don't want to pay table time buy a table and stay home.
The cost of running a business in todays world are unreal.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you haven't noticed but the demographic of pool players vs. golfers is not even remotely similar...

As for anteing up, the view in most pool rooms can't compare with that of a magnificent golf course.

Did you know that many poolplayers don't have that $150 to drop for an afternoon's fun?

Flex
 
I've watching this phenomenon for years. The economics are simple. Stop dropping revenue into business you like to frequent and they won't be there for you to enjoy.

Period, full stop, all done. If we don't allow the owner to pay his bills and walk out with a profit for his sweat and investment equity they are forced to close. These are not churches people. They cannot pass the hat or have a bake sales.

I watch the same clowns hang around my home hall for hours never dropping a dime, looking for a sucker. They walk in carrying a $4.00 coffee and complain when they don't get a discount on a $8.00/hour bill. Do I think as a regular I should pay $12.00-16/hour. No, my volume vs. Joe Public speaks for it's self. I expect premium equipment and am willing to pay what it's worth.

In my part of the world commercial rental space is expensive. $7.00~10.00/hour for good equipment is fair. If I'm practicing alone $4.00~$7.00 is appropriate. Junk I don't want at any price. The owners have to get smarter though. Identify your core super customers and reward them. Offer them redeemable free hours (dead times only) for their patronage. This way the cheap clown who walks around with $5 won't get offended when the key clients get a larger discount.

The OLD 80/20 rule applies to almost all businesses. 20% of your customers provide you 80% of your profits.

Nick
 
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compair the room in the U.S. vs China

I'm from NYC, we have room here that charge from $5 per/hr to $15 per/hr. but overall i think because where i from is suppose to be expensive. But i once took a business trip to China for few weeks & ask one of the associate of mine if there any pool room in China at all ? he took me to this pool heaven. I mean a real pool heaven, i don't think there any pool room in the State that come close to what i experience. Man, when i walk in to the place is like you walk in to a casino in Vegas. the place is 40,000 sq ft each floor & there 5 floor of pool, snooker table. forget about the treatment there. you are being treat like a president of the U.S. they give you a card that you slide on a LCD screen to order drink, food, book room for dinner, massage.....etc.
Anyway,we spend 6 hrs there playing pool & have a 5 course dinner with my associate for 4 of us & the bill only came out to be $56.00 USD. you guys probably think well, is China, everything is cheap there, i can tell you guys, some city there just as expensive as any big city in the U.S. after that experience, I always think all the pool room in the State over charge the hr/rate.

wawacue
 
wawacue said:
I'm from NYC, we have room here that charge from $5 per/hr to $15 per/hr. but overall i think because where i from is suppose to be expensive. But i once took a business trip to China for few weeks & ask one of the associate of mine if there any pool room in China at all ? he took me to this pool heaven. I mean a real pool heaven, i don't think there any pool room in the State that come close to what i experience. Man, when i walk in to the place is like you walk in to a casino in Vegas. the place is 40,000 sq ft each floor & there 5 floor of pool, snooker table. forget about the treatment there. you are being treat like a president of the U.S. they give you a card that you slide on a LCD screen to order drink, food, book room for dinner, massage.....etc.
Anyway,we spend 6 hrs there playing pool & have a 5 course dinner with my associate for 4 of us & the bill only came out to be $56.00 USD. you guys probably think well, is China, everything is cheap there, i can tell you guys, some city there just as expensive as any big city in the U.S. after that experience, I always think all the pool room in the State over charge the hr/rate.

wawacue
Click to expand...
Sounds like pool heaven..next time you visit post some pics..sounds really nice...
 
Flex said:
Perhaps you haven't noticed but the demographic of pool players vs. golfers is not even remotely similar...

As for anteing up, the view in most pool rooms can't compare with that of a magnificent golf course.

Did you know that many poolplayers don't have that $150 to drop for an afternoon's fun?

Flex
Click to expand...


Good post.

Referring back to my previous post, the increase from $1.25 to $7.75/hour is at at the same room, spanning 42 years. And that rate is per table up to 6 players.

I just checked the prices of the movie theater across the street, $7.75 per ticket. And that 20 screen theater is always busy.

In this area I do not think that the cost of playing pool is a large factor in the decline in pool.

Steve
 
Pool room costs

Most of us owners do not want, usually, to have alcohol in the room just because of all the usual "drunk" problems. My normal liability insurance is about $300 per month for a $1,000,000 policy. The expenses of adding a Bar, which generates much more $$$, we must have $3,000,000 minimum policy ..which costs just less than 3x the base price.
I do not think I have ever seen many problems in a pool room where there was no alcohol. I am looking now for a new location, we will have GREAT food, and a family area, but the rents just continue to get higher every year, and it is getting so we almost > MUST have the booze. Not sure which way we will go.
 
Are poolroom prices hurting pool? Yes they are in most areas. Can anything be done about it? Not much. For a dozen tables in an area that most people would go into costs about $12.00 a sq. ft. Just for the playing area and bathrooms, counter space, and being able to walk in the door without walking right into a table is about 3000 sf. ft. That’s without a restaurant or bar. That will cost about $3000 a month rent. Add to that lights, HVAC, insurance, help, and table upkeep, your talking over $4000 a month before you make a penny. I had a poolroom years ago and you didn’t get rich back then either. A poolroom would be the last type of business I would open. Most poolroom owners (15 tables and under) are mom and pops. They work 12 hours or more a day for peanuts. Probably 95% of the smaller ones are owned by people that just fell in love with the game. Their happy just to make a living at what they love. As far as these big $500,000.00 to a million dollar places that are around. IMHO they owners have to much money and the people that play there have too much money. Johnnyt
 
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