Pro players only respond please

This sounds exactly like the first exercise (25 straight ins) from Joe Tucker's Guaranteed Improvement drill book. It's for warm up, first 25 are stop shots, 25 draw shots, then 25 follow shots (scratching is not necessary).

Object ball is about 2-3 diamonds away from the corner pocket, diagonal cross corner shot.

Out of 25 attempts, these are the ranges in the book to gauge your success rate.
D 5-8
C 9-14
B 15-18
A 19-21
SS 21-22
Pro 23-25

bbb said:
how many out of 20 can you hit a perfect stop shot with no unintentional spin and no movement of the cueball??
object ball and cue ball 4-6 diamond distance apart
just curious so i know how to gage my success rate
....
EDIT THESE ARE DIAGONAL CROSS CORNER SHOTS
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Bigtruck said:
A greater test would be to see how slow you can hit the cueball for a ball about 4ft away and stop it. (requires radar)

Ray
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Ray,
I like that drill as an exercise in smoothening out your stroke.
You would need a long bridge and a long and smooth backswing .
It would also help in removing the "jerk" transitioning from back swing to follow through because
you have to slow it all down.
Im going to try it starting with the object ball a few inches from the pocket and progressively moving it further away. Cue ball is always 4 feet away from the OB.
 
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Checkbilliard.com

bbb said:
RAY
my question is to ascertain how accurate are the pros at hitting the cue ball where they want to...(much better than most of us...:banghead:
i expect most of them will make 19 or 20 out of 20.....:eek:....:)
but how often will unintentional spin creep up....
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Used to be The PAT Test developed by the German National Head Coaches
Thorsten was their pupil and subject for this measurement of skill level.

Americans would greatly benefit from it
but the truth hurts.
Our fundamentals hinder progression- they got it down to a science and a sport.
People don't always want to know or fix their weaknesses.
 
I just tried this after warming up one rack.

I put myself at a low B player, by gambling ratings, where an A will rob the 9 ball ghost on a standard GC.

I pocketed a total of 18/20

Of the 18 pocketed, 17 were a "good enough stop shot". Some of these moved only 1/8", some moved about one ball.

Of the 18 pocketed, 1 was an "absolutely perfect stop shot, with no movement whatsoever"

I set up the table with a string and doughnuts to mark the exact spots for the CB and OB. I'd really like to see a pro do this, and hold to the standard of "absolutely zero CB movement".
 
I think it's worth mentioning that the type of cue ball you use makes a huge difference. The measles cue ball let's you know exactly what's going on. Also, a heavier cue ball than object ball... Even if only fractionally makes it extremely difficult to stop the white dead. I play with an unmatched set at home. I bought a measles cue ball and always use that. Its fractionally lighter than the rest I think and it makes it so much easier to use less speed and stop it dead on impact.

This shot in English pool is extremely difficult. The cue ball is not only smaller but very light compared to the object balls and a stop shot has to be hit higher than expected. Sliding cue balls tend to bounce back a little.

I feel the key to this shot is to keep the head perfectly still. You need to sight properly to hit it dead straight also. Anyone who can hit 20/20 with no side spin is a good player in my book. Anyone who can hit 10 or more perfect is not someone i would enjoy playing against.
 
(non pro here lol)

I remember when I was actually playing probably solid B speed working on my game setting up the donuts on the table etc...bar far this was the toughest drill out of anything I practiced, especially if we are talking literally no movement/rotation on the cue ball after contact. I'd be interested to see the #s on this as well from the pros but can probably take a guess at it.
 
Pidge said:
I think it's worth mentioning that the type of cue ball you use makes a huge difference. The measles cue ball let's you know exactly what's going on. Also, a heavier cue ball than object ball... Even if only fractionally makes it extremely difficult to stop the white dead. I play with an unmatched set at home. I bought a measles cue ball and always use that. Its fractionally lighter than the rest I think and it makes it so much easier to use less speed and stop it dead on impact.

This shot in English pool is extremely difficult. The cue ball is not only smaller but very light compared to the object balls and a stop shot has to be hit higher than expected. Sliding cue balls tend to bounce back a little.

I feel the key to this shot is to keep the head perfectly still. You need to sight properly to hit it dead straight also. Anyone who can hit 20/20 with no side spin is a good player in my book. Anyone who can hit 10 or more perfect is not someone i would enjoy playing against.
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Very good point about the different cue balls.

I 'hate' the red circle ball. The Hall I frequent recently changed from the red circle to the Aramith Logo Ball & I am a much more happy camper. The forward roll of the ball after contact is much much more as it should be like with a matched set than compared to the red circle ball, as also is the draw.

Best Wishes to You & All.
 
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bbb said:
how many out of 20 can you hit a perfect stop shot with no unintentional spin and no movement of the cueball??
object ball and cue ball 4-6 diamond distance apart
just curious so i know how to gage my success rate
....
EDIT THESE ARE DIAGONAL CROSS CORNER SHOTS
Click to expand...

It depends on the speed. At a low medium speed I can probably hit almost all of them. As the speed increases the margin for error decreases so some errors would start creeping in.

However, your proposition is fine as a test of good cueing, but as a test of good pool playing in general it's not so much. The need to hit a 'perfect' stop shot probably comes up about once every 200 games of 9-ball and maybe 100 games of 8-ball so it's not really a useful practice drill. A better test would be to throw nine or ten balls around the table and see how many times you can make one and bring the cueball to the exact center of the table. Or for mixing it up a bit, see how many times you can land it on the head spot or the foot spot. Do that for a few hours each day and your cueball control will go through the roof.
 
trob said:
Not many pros seem to post any more since all the nit know it alls talk down to them and pissed them off. You have luck on a face book pool forum.
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So, please, do tell us all just exactly how you feel about how wonderful Facebook is.

Dale(who understands Facebook is a different kettle of fish entirely)
 
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You got me Tom! LOL...accuracy and repeatability have to together...and I do teach it EVERY day! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

3kushn said:
Scott, Your forgot repeatable. You say it all the time and missed the opportunity on this one. They go together and one can't be without the other. This shot is an example that illustrates why the game is such a wonderful challenge and so frustrating.

A player can be Repeatable but repeats in the wrong place. Same is true with accuracy. In other words we need bulls-eyes not just a tight pattern somewhere on the CB. Adding to the difficulty is non repeatable cue speed. Then get swallowed up in PSR and all the rest.

I know you know this as you teach it every day. Just a little poke in the ribs.
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Bbutler...Certainly you're welcome to your opinion. That said, in reality, the stop shot comes into play in almost EVERY game of 8 ball or 9 ball. It's likely the most important shot in pool to master. I agree with your other idea of a drill too...but the ability to shoot the stop shot perfectly trumps it by a lot.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Bbutler said:
The need to hit a 'perfect' stop shot probably comes up about once every 200 games of 9-ball and maybe 100 games of 8-ball so it's not really a useful practice drill.
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I couldn't tell you how many times I've practiced that shot. It's been one of my warm-ups for several years. I don't do 20 shots. I do 10 instead. Out of all the times I've done it I've gotten a perfect score (potted all balls with a perfect stop shot) exactly one time and I was more nervous on those last two balls than any rack I can remember playing.

I've come close quite a few other times, but perfect only once.
 
gunzby said:
I couldn't tell you how many times I've practiced that shot. It's been one of my warm-ups for several years. I don't do 20 shots. I do 10 instead. Out of all the times I've done it I've gotten a perfect score (potted all balls with a perfect stop shot) exactly one time and I was more nervous on those last two balls than any rack I can remember playing.

I've come close quite a few other times, but perfect only once.
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Sounds like you have the right attitude with it! It's definitely one of those drills that you attempt, but your main goal is to learn from it. (should be true with all drills, but this one really emphasizes that). You can NOT let failure get to you at all with this drill. This drill will teach you to think positive and to learn from your mistakes, and to not be disappointed with the outcome. To look at the end result of the drill, and that would be fine tuned accuracy.
 
Celtic said:
The shot you are asking about is more about speed control and spin control. The pros are not hitting center ball on the shot you are asking about, they are hitting a bit of bottom and the backspin is dying at the instant of contact to produce a stop shot. For most pros that shot is more about the "feel" of the speed and amount of spin they are putting on the ball then aiming at a specific area of the cueball. Most pros would not even be able to tell you where exactly they are going to try and hit the cueball as they could hit it in various spots with varying amounts of bottom and control the actual "stopping" of the cueball with the speed they hit through the shot.

Most pros don't aim at points on the cueball, they aim at the contact point on the object ball, and even that is simplistic in that most are actually aiming the object ball into the pocket and the actual contact point on the object ball is not really even their main focus.
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Celtic, I think you may have misunderstood the OP. Or else I did. He was asking how often you can stop the cue ball dead, without any sideways or front to back movement after contact, *AND* not left or right spin on the ball. This specifically addresses cue tip accuracy. In other words, regardless of aim or intentions, how often can a top pro hit the stop shot such that the cueball stops dead with no spin of any kind. This certainly requires an accurate blending of speed and amount of bottom, but also an accurate hit along the horizontal center of the cueball.

KMRUNOUT
 
To the OP:

First off, there is an AccuStats video from the first 8 ball invitational in which Efren plays Busty. Busty breaks the first rack (and good God was he breaking some amazing 8 ball that tourney). Anyway, I believe his very first shot is a fairly long straight in like you described. The first time I watched it, I had to do a double take. It looked like he was soft rolling it, but the cue ball stopped dead as a doornail at the object ball. Now *that* is a stroke. If you can find this video, I highly recommend it. Aside from this shot, the match and the commentary is perhaps one of the best 8 ball instructions I've ever seen. I can't even tell you how much I learned about the game of 8 ball from watching this video. Busty breaks and runs the 1st rack, Efren breaks and runs the 2nd, and the 3rd turns into a 20 minute million inning safety battle that is just awesome!!

Second, if Mike Dechaine is at Snookers on Wednesday I will ask him to do the shot 20 times and post his results. I will also do it for comparison. I'm a low A player I guess. I'm predicting that I do a *perfect* stop shot maybe 8 out of 20 times. I bet Dechaine does about 16 or so. If he's ok with it I will video it.

KMRUNOUT
 
You guys that are doing this "perfectly" are you using donuts to mark the CB and OB, and then after the shot, placing the next OB in its spot, and seeing if it is frozen to the CB, and pointing directly at the facing of the pocket you were aiming at?

I'm not doubting that it can be done, I'm just wondering if I'm holding myself to a higher standard. I can't see deciding that your are "perfect" without doing the above.
 
Neil said:
Sounds like you have the right attitude with it! It's definitely one of those drills that you attempt, but your main goal is to learn from it. (should be true with all drills, but this one really emphasizes that). You can NOT let failure get to you at all with this drill. This drill will teach you to think positive and to learn from your mistakes, and to not be disappointed with the outcome. To look at the end result of the drill, and that would be fine tuned accuracy.
Click to expand...

It's definitely a drill that will straighten your stroke out a lot. It also improved my stroke efficiency a great deal.
 
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