Pro Pool Players Can't Make A Living!

a nice sociable experience

Let me know if you need a "sub" ;)

I played on a team at the Billiard Den and had fun doing it. Not really competitive, I think we played one game against 5 different opponents. . . still a nice sociable experience.


I'll be playing in an ABC league here in Dallas, starting in a few weeks. A few of my teammates played it last season it looks like a great game.
 
It is sad because NOBODY...NOBODY yet has mentioned the most basic fundamental reason why the reality exists that professional pool players cannot make a living unless we're talking about the very elite!

You see, what's sad is not that they can't make a living, what's sad is that so many people are completely oblvious to the actual reason why this is true.

Yes, if there were more honest people who organized the tournaments and yes, if some of those other things happened that some of you mentioned but...

The reason at the absolute bottom, the cause...not the effect, is what I am after and nobody seems to want to mention what that is.

Or...is it because nobody wants to either believe it's true or is actually ignorant enough to not know it's true?

So...I'm gonna keep watching to see if someone, anyone...will finally mention what the real reason is????

God, your'e an annoying troll.
 
Is that a national league that plays all over the country? If so it is a bit easier in Germany then the US.

Germany is not as big as Montana. You can drive most any place in Germany in just a few hours. If you have to drive from one end to another it is under 9 hours. We can't get anywhere in the US without a plane. What ever we did like that would have to be small and local.

Agreed.... Germany is a much smaller country, plus they have excellent train and other public transportation networks. And the greater distances here in the USA make structure like that at the national level virtually impossible, but that doesn't mean you can't modify that a bit... maybe do a state by state type of league, all sanctioned under national body, with regional qualifiers which send their two team(s) to and a national championship tourney.

The thing is... Germany's league system has been operating under this structure for decades, so it's mature and has become "how things are done" over there. They actually use the same league and sanctioning format for badminton, handball, table tennis, basketball, soccer, etc.... It's become a "standard."

To even get close to something like that here would require fundamental changes towards unity among the many disjointed leagues here, which will likely never happen.

Frankly, I hope Joe Tucker's ABC League takes off and I would be interested in joining an ARAS local team myself to get my feet wet, and hopefully prove myself worthy of playing in the ARCS. Glad to see my pool hall is on their club list. :)

Incidentally, a couple of weeks ago Mike Davis was in town and I watched him and James Roberts matched up playing American Rotation. It was great pool to watch, really enjoyed it.
 
American Rotation/AmericanBilliardClub

I've been to the American Billiard Club website and looked over what Joe Tucker is promoting and I have to say its nice fresh breath of air on its own and also for things that could come later down the road.

It puts some infrastructure into play and challenges the player to improve. What's not to like about that!
 
If you can't make enough or you can't save enough from pool to let the extra money work for you...you aren't going nowhere. For the last few years the U.S. has only one player that makes enough on pool to do that and I hope he is doing just that. Johnnyt
 
I've been to the American Billiard Club website and looked over what Joe Tucker is promoting and I have to say its nice fresh breath of air on its own and also for things that could come later down the road.

It puts some infrastructure into play and challenges the player to improve. What's not to like about that!

Thanks Robin. "What's not to like" is a good way to describe it and that is what can or did make it frustrating for me sometimes. One of my friends pointed out to me that just being good or even 100% better than other options may not be enough sometimes. People don't welcome change, people have commitments, only soo many things they can do and no matter how good it is there will always be others whispering why its no good. I keep that and "Anything worth building takes time" in mind as often as possible. First 6-12 months I was out of my mind with daily thoughts of "what's wrong with these people? lol I believe its the best option an aspiring player has ever had, a great bonus to high level players, provides a nice path for future players and can be a lasting flagship organization for the industry. So we just keep plugging away ;)

I am happy to report that since the recent finals in Vegas at the BCAPL nationals I have been receiving more positive feedback and people reaching out than ever before.

If you love pool, want to improve your game and our sport, please check out AmericanBilliardClub.com mission and consider uniting 10 players in your local area. At 50 clubs and 500 players we'll be in a better place.
 
News Flash: RAP HAS KILLED POOL

Dude,

RAP music has not killed pool. It's the fact that most of the young people that play pool are from such a low social order that they prefer RAP. If Mozart brought in more money on "the jukebox" that is what would be programmed into the machine rather than RAP.

Why does golf pay big bucks. Because the people that watch golf HAVE BIG BUCKS!!!

Pool at the grass roots level is played by kids working at McDonalds and adults who work at putting on your new roof. Golf at the grass roots level is played by people that make over $75,000 a year and wear a suit to work.

HOW COMPLICATED IS THIS?? DID WE NEED 13 PAGES TO FIGURE THIS OUT?

OK let me simplify things: DEMOGRAPHICS
 
Demographics

Dude,

RAP music has not killed pool. It's the fact that most of the young people that play pool are from such a low social order that they prefer RAP. If Mozart brought in more money on "the jukebox" that is what would be programmed into the machine rather than RAP.

Why does golf pay big bucks. Because the people that watch golf HAVE BIG BUCKS!!!

Pool at the grass roots level is played by kids working at McDonalds and adults who work at putting on your new roof. Golf at the grass roots level is played by people that make over $75,000 a year and wear a suit to work.

HOW COMPLICATED IS THIS?? DID WE NEED 13 PAGES TO FIGURE THIS OUT?

OK let me simplify things: DEMOGRAPHICS

Yes indeed and it would be nice if something were done to pull in a better demographic.
 
No one is making money off of pool right now, except those few that can operate and/or service globally and take advantage of what is still a modest niche market in every region. That's pretty much equipment manufacturers, distributors, etc.

Pool and golf, which from my understanding is also on the decline in the US as well, are both "upper-class" games or sports. Both were exclusive to royalty and the wealthy in their very beginnings. Both of these, not only can require significant and on going investments to play, but they also require heavy expenses and overhead for the industry to operate and maintain. As a result, they both are very dependent on certain economic conditions, and no surprise that they are on the decline...not just in the US, but world-wide as well.

They also both require a heavy consumption of various natural resources, all of which are finite resources, and getting more and more scarce.

What's a little ironic...is that they are both viewed at totally opposite ends of the social spectrum. One group is considered low-life's, the other's a bunch of old, rich, white, men. Both ends being viewed mostly negatively in a social sense.
 
No one is making money off of pool right now, except those few that can operate and/or service globally and take advantage of what is still a modest niche market in every region. That's pretty much equipment manufacturers, distributors, etc.

Pool and golf, which from my understanding is also on the decline in the US as well, are both "upper-class" games or sports. Both were exclusive to royalty and the wealthy in their very beginnings. Both of these, not only can require significant and on going investments to play, but they also require heavy expenses and overhead for the industry to operate and maintain. As a result, they both are very dependent on certain economic conditions, and no surprise that they are on the decline...not just in the US, but world-wide as well.

They also both require a heavy consumption of various natural resources, all of which are finite resources, and getting more and more scarce.

What's a little ironic...is that they are both viewed at totally opposite ends of the social spectrum. One group is considered low-life's, the other's a bunch of old, rich, white, men. Both ends being viewed mostly negatively in a social sense.

Nit,
Interesting Post. Yes both take up a fair amount of natural resources and have a fair amount of expense to maintain. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sports Bars transition to stand alone buildings if Pool is going to be the selling point because ownership is more desirable if rents are so high. The decline is world wide and does follow the trail of disappearing disposable income in a general sense.

What I find also ironic but is certainly not true in every case is that most room owners don't do a lot in the area of personal marketing. They might take out an advertisement from time to time and Im sure that's quite expensive and low in production of prospective clients.

A poster here I was talking to told a story of losing an Alcohol license for 5 months and he was able to double his business by doing things to draw attention to his business on a personal level. He went door to door in the surrounding neighborhood to businesses introducing himself and offering a free something to get people to come in.

He put things in the Parking Lot like antique trucks in front of his place to draw attention to the place.

I think the market is still there, its just that people have lost the ability to go out an get it for some reason.

In my theory based on this mans story it seems all he did was place invitations and throw out Pool as bait and it worked.

Its so simple its almost laughable. Instead of placing expensive advertisements an owner could just invite people to come play for free and make it fun for them and that lets Pool become the advertisement itself. Some you get and keep as customers and some you don't.

I'm not the smartest guy in the world but I would think if I had a Pool Room I would do everything I could to get people in it because there are so many things trying to get peoples attention nowadays.

So that's what I based my Pool Club ideas on because if a guy who went from no alcohol could double what he previously had in customer base when he did have alcohol, he was doing something right. It obviously worked well.

I think it would be a really cool way to change the game for pool. It's simple Recruit the demographic that you want in the rooms through invitations. What is even better is you could invite Groups in. Those groups could be civic groups, seniors groups, High School and College Clubs, Womens groups, Corporate Office Groups, the list is endless. You can just call them up and say...Hey come here, for free for your day on Saturday afternoon then when they get there have a plan in place to make sure their time is FUN!

What I think is even better is for sponsorship to get involved in that process. I can see that this would be a great way for Pool League systems who generally ask the Room Owner to donate the table for their matches to help the owner get new business.

This would put the Pool League systems in a position of power with the Room Owner were they to choose to do so.

What do you think a room owner would say to a Pool League System that was helping him with table time for Public Pool Club when he asked if he could run some teams out of the place? I would think it would be a resounding Yes!
 
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That's a very thoughtful comment, it's obvious you've thought about this quite a bit. Most pool rooms being small businesses, they have the same challenges as other mom and pops, and marketing is often a daunting prospect for them. It's not something they're used to or have much experience. It's absolutely vital in today's marketplace, however, and that's in any industry. I like your ideas and think they are pretty solid.
 
Frankly I don't think pool is going to "die" or go anywhere no matter how it's treated. Nor do I care what a top pro makes or doesn't make. I think they deserve more based on their amazing level of ability, yes. I think it's a shame they don't have a bigger stage to play on with much bigger pay outs, yes. I play, I love the game, I enjoy leagues, I enjoy tournaments...but I'm fine with that level of pool. If all of that goes away I still have a table at my house...I'd love to see pool become more of a mainstream sport as our other beloved sports that bring in all of the money but it never has been nor do I ever expect it to. If it does, fantastic!!

What do we owe pool again, I forget...
 
Frankly I don't think pool is going to "die" or go anywhere no matter how it's treated. Nor do I care what a top pro makes or doesn't make. I think they deserve more based on their amazing level of ability, yes. I think it's a shame they don't have a bigger stage to play on with much bigger pay outs, yes. I play, I love the game, I enjoy leagues, I enjoy tournaments...but I'm fine with that level of pool. If all of that goes away I still have a table at my house...I'd love to see pool become more of a mainstream sport as our other beloved sports that bring in all of the money but it never has been nor do I ever expect it to. If it does, fantastic!!

What do we owe pool again, I forget...

Pool may not completely die, but for those who don't have their own table and enjoy social and competitive play in local pool halls, declining popularity is a real concern. Seeing local pool halls close is not a happy site.

We are thinking about what can be done to make pool more popular so we can continue to play in our favorite local halls, on high quality, maintained equipment.

You say you still have a table at your house, but wouldn't you miss the social play, leagues and tournaments ?
 
Pool may not completely die, but for those who don't have their own table and enjoy social and competitive play in local pool halls, declining popularity is a real concern. Seeing local pool halls close is not a happy site.

We are thinking about what can be done to make pool more popular so we can continue to play in our favorite local halls, on high quality, maintained equipment.

You say you still have a table at your house, but wouldn't you miss the social play, leagues and tournaments ?

Nit,
Thankyou. I have thought about it from a lot of sides.

Kelley, you make a valid point.

Ron Scuba,
Exactly. I would miss the fact that I get to have pool friends and a local bunch of regulars which is why I give a d*** about it. There would little distirburance in the galaxy if
poof pool no longer existed but I would sure miss the life. Id miss the people and a whole industry would vanish. I think its worth applying some thought to it only if Room Owners themselves care enough to promote the businesses that they are making their living from.

Any idea is just that an idea until its put into action. Getting someone to actually do something is something that had better have a pay out to it or it wont survive very long. Thats just the way things work and I hope to make it work out that way. No one can do much of anything alone, it just wont happen.

I like very much what Joe Tucker is doing but that is developing something for people we already have. Im interested in a new demographic.
 
like it or not, the people with money will NOT go where there aren't attractive .....

You're right, there's plenty of people in between these two demographics. I've had two gentleman from Texas taking lessons that are both worth over 100 Million and they LOVE pool. They both have access to private tables so you won't see them out with the "ball bangers," however, there are many more where they came from.

As soon as we get back on TV many of the "in between" demographics will re-appear. I believe it's very important to cater to the women and make them feel safe in the billiard businesses.....like it or not, the people with money will NOT go where there are no attractive females.....and I can't say that I blame them. 'The Game is the Teacher'



No one is making money off of pool right now, except those few that can operate and/or service globally and take advantage of what is still a modest niche market in every region. That's pretty much equipment manufacturers, distributors, etc.

Pool and golf, which from my understanding is also on the decline in the US as well, are both "upper-class" games or sports. Both were exclusive to royalty and the wealthy in their very beginnings. Both of these, not only can require significant and on going investments to play, but they also require heavy expenses and overhead for the industry to operate and maintain. As a result, they both are very dependent on certain economic conditions, and no surprise that they are on the decline...not just in the US, but world-wide as well.

They also both require a heavy consumption of various natural resources, all of which are finite resources, and getting more and more scarce.

What's a little ironic...is that they are both viewed at totally opposite ends of the social spectrum. One group is considered low-life's, the other's a bunch of old, rich, white, men. Both ends being viewed mostly negatively in a social sense.
 
You're right, there's plenty of people in between these two demographics. I've had two gentleman from Texas taking lessons that are both worth over 100 Million and they LOVE pool. They both have access to private tables so you won't see them out with the "ball bangers," however, there are many more where they came from.

As soon as we get back on TV many of the "in between" demographics will re-appear. I believe it's very important to cater to the women and make them feel safe in the billiard businesses.....like it or not, the people with money will NOT go where there are no attractive females.....and I can't say that I blame them. 'The Game is the Teacher'

It hard to argue against the idea of more television coverage but it seems to me that usually comes after there is plenty of support for a sport by its fans. I can agree that television would help things a lot I just don't see the support building for more of it until we learn how to get people more involved locally. We simply need to learn how to recruit for pool at the local level. The Pool League System does a good job of it as a general rule because they know that's what they make their bread and butter from, so what wrong with our sector? We need to learn how to attract the demographics on a local level. Advertising in the traditional sense is very expensive for most room owners to afford. So why not let the things you have do the job of entertaining for you? All you have to do is simply invite people from Groups of the desired Demographics in for some fun that you tailor to make sure its.....Fun.

I can go along with your ideas on the effects of the television. I just think its getting the cart before the horse. Its like we are putting off taking ownership and dealing with a problem when we look for something else to fix it for us.
 
New Ideas

Frankly I don't think pool is going to "die" or go anywhere no matter how it's treated. Nor do I care what a top pro makes or doesn't make. I think they deserve more based on their amazing level of ability, yes. I think it's a shame they don't have a bigger stage to play on with much bigger pay outs, yes. I play, I love the game, I enjoy leagues, I enjoy tournaments...but I'm fine with that level of pool. If all of that goes away I still have a table at my house...I'd love to see pool become more of a mainstream sport as our other beloved sports that bring in all of the money but it never has been nor do I ever expect it to. If it does, fantastic!!

What do we owe pool again, I forget...

Honestly we don't owe pool a thing but its nice to find someone to play when you go out for an evening. I've gotten to where I find games where people have home tables but no one to play. This allows me the latitude to play long sessions of the games I like to play with someone who has some skill. It would be a shame to see the public tables all but disappear and that could happen because of the price of commercial space.

It just seem so elementary to me to just invite individual people and groups in that you want to become customers and then make sure they have fun in order to get them to come back during pay times.

Pool is bait, so just let it be. We don't owe pool a thing, its just a great way of socializing with like minded people who enjoy competition. Letting that disappear would be a shame on all counts and don't think that this trend hasn't had a huge effect on an industry because it surely has. Markets wax and wane and markets can be created or developed and this is one that needs some new ideas.
 
Have each league system charge a dollar for each member per season to go towards a pro fund. Raise a cold million. Have 20 tournaments with 50k added. Publicize the Calcutta and how it works. Make gambling the appeal. Eh longshot.
 
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