Problems with Perry Weston and the ACA.

J

joeyb

Registered
Had a problem this year with Perry Weston, he delivered a cue to me with a few flaws and would not fix them or refund my money. I contacted the ACA and it's ethics committee. Dave Jacoby tried to resolve the situation by asking Perry to fix it and he refused on two occasions. My problem is this, if I were a member of an organization and did something unethical my membership would be in question. So, by Dave not demanding him to fix it and warning his membership would be in jeopardy. It gave Perry the ok to send me this very nasty email. Which made me realize that not only is Perry Weston dishonest but he's illiterate.LOL

from Perry Weston <westoncues@yahoo.com>
to joeybranford@hotmail.com
date Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 11:24 AM
mailed-by hotmail.com
signed-by yahoo.com
Oct 13
Joey, You're problem is you don't know that you're worst enemy is you're OWN BIG MOUTH. you just don't know when to shut up. You cry and whine to the ACA, let me wise you up, THEY DON'T GIVE A CRAP,and you're not smart enough to know they can't help you anyway.
. You shot off you're big mouth one to many times to me to ever get any cooperation from me again.
The best you can do now is to go cry to you're mama.
B.T.W. you're emails are automaticly deleated when they get to my mail box.
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Perry Weston is such a fine example of the ACA mission statement:

It is the mission of the American Cuemaker’s Association to establish and recognize a standard of excellence in the art of cuemaking, to educate the public about cues, promote the collecting of cues, and to cooperate with other organizations engaged in billiard promotions whose objectives are compatible with those of the American Cuemaker’s Association."
"Setting the Standard"
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joeyb said:
Had a problem this year with Perry Weston, he delivered a cue to me with a few flaws and would not fix them or refund my money. I contacted the ACA and it's ethics committee. Dave Jacoby tried to resolve the situation by asking Perry to fix it and he refused on two occasions. My problems is this, if I were a member of an organization and did something unethical my membership would be in question. So, by Dave not demanding him to fix it and warning his membership would be in jeopardy. It gave Perry the ok to send me this very nasty email. Which made me realize that not only is Perry Weston dishonest but he's illiterate.LOL


from Perry Weston <westoncues@yahoo.com>
to joeybranford@hotmail.com
date Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 11:24 AM
mailed-by hotmail.com
signed-by yahoo.com
Oct 13
Joey, You're problem is you don't know that you're worst enemy is you're OWN BIG MOUTH. you just don't know when to shut up. You cry and whine to the ACA, let me wise you up, THEY DON'T GIVE A CRAP,and you're not smart enough to know they can't help you anyway.
. You shot off you're big mouth one to many times to me to ever get any cooperation from me again.
The best you can do now is to go cry to you're mama.
B.T.W. you're emails are automaticly deleated when they get to my mail box.
Click to expand...

Before this turns into a slug fest here, I'm just curious... what were the flaws exactly? Can you show some pictures? Can you tell us the delivery schedule and other facts that may further explain your story?

I'm saying this (in a friendly tone) that it's best to state your case with facts and let the members here figure out for themselves if your actions are justified. The information you gave is just too vague for anyone to form an opinion of what happened. The ACA is not a sanctioning or licensing organization. It is a loosely knit association with no contractual way to disipline it's membership.

Chris
 
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Yes, I can post more info. Have a bunch of emails.

Joey Branford <joeybranford@hotmail.com>
to jocues@flash.net,
steve@kleincues.com,
espiritucues@att.net,
gilbertcues@msn.com,
mike@caponecues.com,
kjosey@joseycues.com,
aecues@aecues.com
bcc Perry Weston <westoncues@yahoo.com>
date Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:21 AM
subject Perry Weston Problem!
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details Oct 11
I'm informing all board members of the ACA about a problem I recently had with Perry Weston. I ordered a custom cue from him and he delivered it with many major flaws. And, will not fix it or refund my money. I thought the ACA ethics broad may have been able to help. Well, it seems that ACA has no uniform code of ethics that it's members must follow. David Jacoby contacted Perry and he still has yet to resolve the issue. The biggest problem with this situation is that Perry sent this cue to me in this condition knowing I was paying COD and had no way of refusing it. (This could be consider fraud.) How could one send a cue out of their shop with these kind of issues.

1. Ebony forearm striped brown(50%-70%)(ebony of forearm and butt sleeve don't match)
2. two inlays have black dye on them completely( black dye ran through most of the purple heart inlays in the forearm)
3. Metal shaving can be seen around some and the silver inlays
4. highly visible amount of metal shaving dust in the butt sleeve clear coat
5. leather warp edges are frayed(he didn't make clean cuts)
6. There are other issues but they can't be describe only seen in person.
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joeyb said:
Yes, I can post more info. Have a bunch of emails.
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I received the pictures- I can see why the disappointment and seems it was not dealt with properly.

Chris
 
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The ACA should not want any member to conduct themselves as Perry did in this situation. But, what they should have done is after seeing how he handle this matter, revoked his membership. Because, he did this and the ACA showed no recourse he will do it again. After all they do have a ethics committee. But, the problem is it's more like a good old boys club. I got to say "business is business and personal is personal".
 
I'm sorry to hear you are dissatisfied with the cue that was made for you but slamming the ACA over an issue you that is between you and one specific cue maker is a little weak.

They've got nothing to do with this and dragging them into your problem is not right.
 
Didn't see the cue or your original request. However, Macassar ebony is brown streaked. Did you ask for ebony or specifically ask for jet black (Gabon) ebony??
 
Not weak at all! The facts are the facts. The way they handle it gave Perry the ok to spit in my face. I ask Dave Jacoby why Perry would not fix it(or refund it) and he said that he didn't ask him why. But, he did tell me they talked for over an hour about a bunch of unrelated topics other than my cue. Dave's the president of the ACA and he should have set the tone. I bet you that they didn't even say anything to him after he sent out that nasty email, in which he himself makes reference to the ACA.

"You cry and whine to the ACA, let me wise you up, THEY DON'T GIVE A CRAP"-Perry Weston
 
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I did ask for black ebony. After receiving the cue I asked Perry why it was brown and he said the dye didn't take.(50-70% was solid brown) Which is why 2 of the inlays looked liked they were missing. He got dye on the inlays.

Cue making 101 for Perry Weston:

1. When building an ebony forearm cue start with a black piece of wood. That way you don't have to dye it and chance getting dye on the inlays.
2. Clean the metal shaving off all silver inlays
3. Try to make clean cuts when installing leather wrap so the ends don't look frayed.
4. Try to spray finish on in a clean environment. So, no unwanted particles get into the clear coat.
 
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I'm sorry to hear you are dissatisfied with the cue that was made for you but slamming the ACA over an issue you that is between you and one specific cue maker is a little weak.

They've got nothing to do with this and dragging them into your problem is not right.
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Why??? it will help the customer to have a good transaction and good product.

a couple of month ago, i order a cue set from cuemaker here in az. I order him to make me 4 oz shaft, 3/8x10 joint pin and he promise me to finish the cue for 5 month. The cue finish in 10 Month :rolleyes:, wrong joint pin and no more than 3,6 oz shaft weight. I already pay upfront for this set cue, and when i email to him he didn't respond it.. I end up to sell this cue for 60% from the original price. And i believe "maybe i wrong" he also a member of ACA even he is from another country.

Now, if ACA can protect us as a customer and give a sanction to a bad cuemaker. it must good for them and Pool Industry...

Best
Dedy:smile:Indonesia
 
DedyIndonesia, You get it exactly. That one aspect of what the ACA wants to be. But, they lack the balls to tell a member flat out that he is wrong. The reason that cue maker did that to you was because he knew just as Perry did, that you had no real recourse.(especially being on the other side of the world)
 
DedyIndonesia, You get it exactly. That one aspect of what the ACA wants to be. But, they lack the balls to tell a member flat out that he is wrong. The reason that cue maker did that to you was because he knew just as Perry did, that you had no real recourse.(especially being on the other side of the world)
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Yeah Sir, that's problem make me sick and really make me mad... even if he want to fix the problem of my cue, i still will lost 200$ for the shipping cost to his country and 50$ to the custom tax when he sent my cue again after refinish. ACA should look for this matter really close.

After a while in az forum, i notice that there are some bad cuemaker in the pool industry... and there is should be a warning to them from the organization.

Best
Dedy:smile:
 
I also agree this is an issue with the ACA. If they claim their member's are held to a specific ethical standard, then they should discipline a member who violates this. The question now becomes, what ethical standard is the ACA publicly claiming its members must meet?

If your Dr. is bad, you go to the certifying board and let them know of your experiences. I'm sure they have a set procedure of when and how to discipline a Dr., and even prevent that Dr from being licensed in the state.

Laywers have the same.

NFL has the same.

Pool has nothing, for its players, or its products, or its tournament payment, even its rule set. Its just the way it is, but it doesn't make it right.
 
I know Dave Jacoby and most of the guys on the board. To a man they have always been stand up guys in any dealings I have had with them. Something that needs to be kept in mind is that the ACA is in its early stages as an organization. They are working to do more but as group of small mostly one man shops it is a little much to expect them to convene a meeting and kick a guy out just because of one customer complaint.

Things in organizations like this take months and months to get done usually sometimes longer when you have to coordinate multiple members schedules.

I have never dealt with Mr. Weston and it sounds like he has a personal issue with the OP. Sometimes it happens. If I was him and the guy really pissed me off I would just send his money back and fire him as a customer. Sounds like the cue is jacked up so the guy does have a legit issue. I can understand going to the ACA but I think it a little over the top to blast them just yet. EVERYONE in business has pissed off a customer at one time or another. To blame an organization like the ACA for lack of a resolution is a little silly IMO.
 
Justin,
I'm not blaming the ACA. Just, making all the facts known to the members of this forum. Dave Jacoby has a great personality. But, he was asking Perry as a friend to fix it and not as a business constituent. The ethics committee should have demanded him to resolve the issue based on the facts. They discussed my issue regarding Perry at two meetings. I will forward you directly some of the emails, you judge it for yourself.
 
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If the OP wasn't happy and approached Perry in a professional manner, Perry should have fixed the cue "on-the-blind" regardless if he felt anything was wrong or not. The customer is always right and why put yourself through a crap-storm with someone posting nasty threads on the internet?

I dunno - I can't think of a scenario where Perry could be in the right. Justin is right -- if the OP was a dick right out of the gate, Perry should have refunded his $ and fired him as a customer. Keeping his money and telling him to screw himself isn't an option, imo.

dave
 
Quite obviously Mr. Weston should have provided a refund.

Thank you for the heads up about Weston. I'll put him on the short list of cuemakers that I would never by a cue from.
 
Just a really bad business decision on Perry Weston's part, IMHO. If he thinks one customer complaint isn't going to effect him, he might want to re-think that. AZ is a huge community, and word spreads like wild fire...both good and bad.

Chris has obviously seen the pics...which I think the OP should post here for all to see, but that is his decision...and if Chris says the complaint is legit, the complaint is legit.

The first ethical red flag for me is the attempted dying of the ebony to resemble that of top grade Gabon...especially without the OP's knowledge. Especially given that top grade Gabon is very difficult to find anymore, and much more expensive than Magassar. Has me pondering if he planned to charge it out as Magassar or Gabon?

Bottom line here is that Perry should not have ever allowed that cue to leave his shop. If the OP noticed the imperfections, then you can bet that Perry did too. Simply no excuse for a sub-par product like that to go out to a customer.

As to the ACA...they have pretty stringent requirements to even be considered for membership, one would think that this issue with a member/maker would be addressed, as it has a potential impact on the whole with respect to the credibility of the organization.

Lisa
 
I think there should be some mechanism by which the ACA can intervene on behalf of a customer who receives a blatantly poor quality cue from one of its members. If ACA has a code of ethics and a member clearly violates it, then do something about it.

For a cuemaker to be a member of the ACA provides a measure of confidence to potential customers that they will receive a quality product. This should not be lost on Dave Jacoby, or frankly, anyone affiliated with ACA.

Early in their existence or not, they should endeavor to make it right.

Best,
Brian kc
 
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Dave, this is what I sent to Perry regarding how I felt about the cue. I did it in a very nice manner. He would not return any of my calls after I sent him this email.

Joey Branford <joeybranford@hotmail.com>
to Perry Weston <westoncues@yahoo.com>
date Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM
subject Re: My Cue.
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details Sep 7

I writing this to tell you that I'm very happy with the playability of the cue. I would go as far to say it is astonishing. And, far exceeded my expectations of what a cue should hit like.

But, I'm having a problem with the forearm and it's color brown.(and 2 inlays look like they didn't take) Forearm doesn't match the butt sleeve. The butt sleeve is perfect in every way.(100%) I know you said it could only be seen under heavy light. But, it's very noticeable, especially because of having to play under pool table lights. I have asked 4 friends to look at it and they all noticed the fact that the forearm is brown. (2 of these people are not pool players) I played with the cue on Friday and Saturday and stopped playing with it because I'm so disappointed with the appearance of it. My expectations for this cue were set very high because of your reputation and all the ebony cues you have made over the years. Five of which I have seen in person And, they were all flawless.

This has been a very difficult email to write because of the working relationship we have developed. Please give me a call so we may discuss the matter and options or remedies.
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I don't think anything in this email was offensively impolite or ill-mannered on my part.
 
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