Production cue vs Custom cue

TheNewSharkster

TheNewSharkster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I often think about this subject so I thought I would make a topic to discuss.

I will start out with a disclaimer. If some of my remarks are ignorant I appologize in advance :) I really don't know much about the cue making process but I will assume many of the steps for both production cues and customer are the same.

So the benefits I can think of off the top of my head are as follows-

Production
1. Cost
2. Availability
3. Consistency

Custom
1. Customization of weight, balance point and length
2. Customization of inlays, wood and overall look


Custom and production cues share some qualities. You can get both in different weights. You can get different shafts for both. In some cases you can choose the wrap on both.

What I am not sure about is the "hit" of a custom cue vs a production cue. I have hit with a several custom cues and many different production cues. I agree that some have a unique feel but I don't really see a big advantage in this regard to a custom cue.

Any insight on this would be appreciated.
 
I shoot with a Josey custom these days. A classic look with a fairly stiff hit. I like it...it works...for me! But I'm no great shooter, just casual play.

Recently bought a cousin a Viking...plain jane with the "B" joint.

I think it has a great hit.

Really, it all depends on what feels good to you...production cues can serve every bit as well as a custom.

The old saying is true: "It's not the arrow. It's the Indian."
 
TheNewSharkster said:
I often think about this subject so I thought I would make a topic to discuss.

I will start out with a disclaimer. If some of my remarks are ignorant I appologize in advance :) I really don't know much about the cue making process but I will assume many of the steps for both production cues and customer are the same.

So the benefits I can think of off the top of my head are as follows-

Production
1. Cost
2. Availability
3. Consistency

Custom
1. Customization of weight, balance point and length
2. Customization of inlays, wood and overall look


Custom and production cues share some qualities. You can get both in different weights. You can get different shafts for both. In some cases you can choose the wrap on both.

What I am not sure about is the "hit" of a custom cue vs a production cue. I have hit with a several custom cues and many different production cues. I agree that some have a unique feel but I don't really see a big advantage in this regard to a custom cue.

Any insight on this would be appreciated.
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You mean production cues and custom cues not 'customer cues' right?

I was where you are at one point and it wasn't that long ago. I have learned an immense amount in a relatively short period of time and much of it has to do from this forum. As long as you have a good ability to sort out the bs from the good stuff, you will be able to pick up on good into as well.

There are many people who just want to play. They may be a strong player as well. I know many of the strong, strong players in my pool hall who will swear by their Schon. That cue to them is replicated because it is dependable and consistent, and has been throughout the years. Some of the others will go with another brand like Mezz, or Joss, even Viking or Players. I have noticed that it really depends on the type of individual who will 'look into' things on a deeper level depending on how much passion they have in that area. It doesn't necessarily mean that if you use a Cuetec, you are classified as a mediocre player. Some of the good players play off the wall and they do so just fine.

For the most part though, the ones who know better, know better equipment, and they will 9 times out of 10 go with a custom cue. It's not necessarily because they get it customized for themselves either. Often times, they get the cue second hand. In my area, Farris, Petree, and Shurtz cues are the top three most popular custom cues. Any of the guys who know the difference between a 'generic hit' and a 'custom hit' will tell you that there is no comparison between the two. You also have the occasional player who has 'THAT STICK'. It's their holy grail, rather. I see this most often with Farris and Petree cues. Many of the players have been playing with their Farris for 15+ years. It may not be the absolute best cue in the world, but it is plenty good enough, and in their eyes, is way better than any production cue. It is good for you psyche to have a cue 'built for you' because it adds to your 'profile as a player'.

I, for instance, absolutely love my cue. It's the one in my avatar and listed down below in my sig. I wouldn't trade it or sell it for any amount of money. IT WILL NEVER BE FOR SALE. It is a part of me that began much like a human being does; as an idea. My cue is made from a man who poured his entire spirit, heart and soul into it. He made it from top to bottom, start to finish with his own two hands and when finished, put into my two hands. That, to me, has a depth of meaning that is indescribable and cannot be put into words. I can FEEL the maker's spirit in the cue when I play with it. I don't feel that when I play with my Schon. I feel a machined instrument in my hands. That's just how I feel about it, I can't tell you how others feel. I can tell you that in the world of cues, that a custom cue is considered to be far superior in quality not because of the price, but because of the care and the energy put into it.

The only other thing off the top of my head is to compare NFL to College football. The worst NFL team could probably beat the best College team. Maybe?? You get the picture.

Again, here we are talking about the best this, and the best that. Maybe we can create a new forum category archived as the 'best of the best'.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
I often think about this subject so I thought I would make a topic to discuss.

I will start out with a disclaimer. If some of my remarks are ignorant I appologize in advance :) I really don't know much about the cue making process but I will assume many of the steps for both production cues and customer are the same.

So the benefits I can think of off the top of my head are as follows-

Production
1. Cost
2. Availability
3. Consistency

Custom
1. Customization of weight, balance point and length
2. Customization of inlays, wood and overall look


Custom and production cues share some qualities. You can get both in different weights. You can get different shafts for both. In some cases you can choose the wrap on both.

What I am not sure about is the "hit" of a custom cue vs a production cue. I have hit with a several custom cues and many different production cues. I agree that some have a unique feel but I don't really see a big advantage in this regard to a custom cue.

Any insight on this would be appreciated.
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Its watever feels right to you. I personally have played with a Schon for years and i love it. Just recently changed to a Z2 shaft and its even better. I've also hit with a lot of custom cues and i love them as well. Just figure out wat kind of hit you like and wat taper then decide wat is right for u.
 
Jayson said:
Its watever feels right to you. I personally have played with a Schon for years and i love it. Just recently changed to a Z2 shaft and its even better. I've also hit with a lot of custom cues and i love them as well. Just figure out wat kind of hit you like and wat taper then decide wat is right for u.
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As far as a shaft goes I personally like the OB-1 the best. This topic was more about the other half of the cue stick since you can pretty much put just about any shaft on any stick.
 
deadgearplyr, thanks for the reply. I think I know what you are talking about *but* if you were blindfolded and shot with your Schon and custom cue would you know the difference? Would the fact it was hand crafted really make a difference?

Don't get me wrong though. I have been thinking of getting a custom cue. I did own a Jacoby but I understand these arent exactly "custom" in the same regard as a SW (maybe someone can explain the difference).

The old grouth shaft is something I have thought of trying to get before. How does it hit? Much deflection?
 
deadgearplyr said:
I, for instance, absolutely love my cue. It's the one in my avatar and listed down below in my sig. I wouldn't trade it or sell it for any amount of money. IT WILL NEVER BE FOR SALE.
Click to expand...

Exactly my situation with my main player. It's a Jacoby. I call her "SweetPea". I will NEVER part with her.

Maniac
 
I Used to play with a predator, and loved it. Now I have a Josey, and I hate the hit of the predator, it feels dead. I love the firm hit the Josey gives me, and my game improved as the result. I am still not very good though.:grin:
 
i am amazed at the az threads talking about balance point,i have never even heard it mentioned by a cue maker or a great player

i have spent hours with jerry franklin verl horn,barry,mike and tim,paul mottey and drexler,evan clark and others but never heard this mentioned.I have taken orders for cues from cliff,eddie kelly,jack potter(libra cues) and even designed custom cues but balance point never entered my thinking,

it does enter my thinking when i play one handed,but I actually believe that all of this techno stuff needs to be taken "cum granulo salis"

This is not to say that i haven't picked up cues that seemed butt heavy.

As far as production cues Schon is the best in my opinion,by leaps and bounds.As far as custom cues,the good ones are like fine art.Better investments than production if you choose right and buy the well known.
The hit is subjective,someone likes Scruggs,another likes Southwest,Some like Barry and and everyone likes Deano

i can't help myself i am a salesman,

dean
 
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TheNewSharkster said:
Deanoc, can you tell me why a Schon is leaps and bounds better than say a Viking?
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schons aren't perfect but their a joint is better. even with the gap they leave inside. the stiffer shafts/shaft taper is better imo. if you like to draw the cueball a lot than viking shaft taper is great. but it might just be me but i think that you get more control with schon's stiff taper
 
deanoc said:
i am amazed at the az threads talking about balance point,i have never even heard it mentioned by a cue maker or a great player

i have spent hours with jerry franklin verl horn,barry,mike and tim,paul mottey and drexler,evan clark and others but never heard this mentioned.I have taken orders for cues from cliff,eddie kelly,jack potter(libra cues) and even designed custom cues but balance point never entered my thinking,

it does enter my thinking when i play one handed,but I actually believe that all of this techno stuff needs to be taken "cum granulo salis"

This is not to say that i haven't picked up cues that seemed butt heavy.

As far as production cues Schon is the best in my opinion,by leaps and bounds.As far as custom cues,the good ones are like fine art.Better investments than production if you choose right and buy the well known.
The hit is subjective,someone likes Scruggs,another likes Southwest,Some like Barry and and everyone likes Deano

i can't help myself i am a salesman,

dean
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have you ever tried a mezz? i'm really surprised no one has ever mentioned balance point when talking to you about cue! i've owned a few and imo balance point is really important. the cueball seems to move different, to me at least, when the cue is forward balanced or more balanced toward the rear.
 
24 years ago I bought my first cue. I went to a dealer that lived about 100 miles from me because a team mate recommended him to me. He told me that the Mcd's were really discounted. I didn't know anything about a cue except most of the players in the league had either McD's or Meucci's. The dealer had a lot of brands and told me that the best bang for the buck was a Schon. I bought one. Not too many players were impressed with it. They still believed that one of the other 2 were the finest cues made.

I still have that Schon. I have since then learned a little more about cues and have bought a few customs. I will still take that Schon out and play with it. It hits, feels and plays as good as any of the cues that I have.

What cues are my other cues? Gina, SW, Bender, Gilbert, Weston (both Skip, and Perry), RC3, Layani, Lambros, Deano, Jensen, and CK

I don't know if I would pay more for a Schon than a custom cue but they are good starters on the entry level.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
deadgearplyr, thanks for the reply. I think I know what you are talking about *but* if you were blindfolded and shot with your Schon and custom cue would you know the difference? Would the fact it was hand crafted really make a difference?

Don't get me wrong though. I have been thinking of getting a custom cue. I did own a Jacoby but I understand these arent exactly "custom" in the same regard as a SW (maybe someone can explain the difference).

The old grouth shaft is something I have thought of trying to get before. How does it hit? Much deflection?
Click to expand...

You betcha ur a$$ I could do it blind folded. Give me 100 cues, mix them up in any random order, and put my cue any where in that mix. I am willing to bet any amount of money I could identify it with my eyes closed.

That old growth shaft hits like a dream. It produces the most pleasing harmonic vibration that just sings to me every time I strike the cue ball. I am not sure if you understand that a Jacoby is every bit a custom cue as a SW. Even though Jacoby puts out a lot of cues, they are still a fine, fine custom cue shop. I've hit with a Jacoby and they are superb. ONe thing about Jacoby is they do a good amount of CNC inlays. CNC in IMO does absolutely nothing for the playability of the cue. It may even detract from the playability due to there being extra pieces that aren't needed. Full Spliced cues are among the best hitting cues and that's why Titlist conversions are so highly desired. They are simple, good looking and very stable in terms of cured wood. With my cue maker, you can guarantee that even his first works are still being played 15 years later. People like Eddie Farris is someone who gradually takes down his shaft wood PATIENTLY. Some people claim to do that, but don't and you will damn sure hear about it at some point or another. Over the course of time, only the truth will remain when it comes to a maker's intent. One thing about SW and people like Lambros (from what I understand) is that they have gone the extra mile to carefully analyze certain woods, and other parts calculating science and experience into the mix to result in an extremely 'perfect' instrument for playing. I'm talking about the quality of the glues, measured down to the right amount placed in the right spots, as well as the type of wood used to attain the correct combination of weight in all the right places. Joint type such as the 3/8x11 pin that Southwest is famous for as well as the flat faced joint which brings the most surface contact between shaft and butt is something they have looked into and researched extensively and have simply, 'figured something out'.

They are not the only ones though. I'm not going to sit here and name specific cue builders, but, rather, do your own homework and find your own answers. You will find that only you can determine what you like. I refuse to be the one to tell you that. I can be courteous enough to let you in on my experiences, but you need to make up your own mind from there. Ask some of the cue makers in the 'ask the cue maker section' and you will find that they are more than willing to share. I only ask that you continue to 'be respectful' and take your time in all of this.

Enjoy your journey. Savor it. Get a blue book and ask questions. It can be quite addictive, but you could be addicted to worse things. Good Luck.

P.S. Yes, the old growth shaft has deflection. Maybe not as much as a newer wood, cause it is a stiffer wood, but deflect it does. Many of the people on this forum know how I feel about deflection and don't get me started on it. I will recommend that you welcome deflection as a part of the game and learn how to tame it. Otherwise you will be forever running from it like a big chicken.
 
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The biggest difference is that with a custom cue you can show off how much money you spent on a cue. The balls have no idea if your cue has a forward or rear balance point or if it's 18oz or 21. As long as you are happy with your cue that is all that matters. If you can step to the table with confidence then you're good to go. One day you may want a trophy though.
MULLY
 
The New Sharskster,

I don't know how long you have been playing, but in you OP you expressed some ignorance so I assume it has not been long. If that's the case, a quality production cue would be an excellent choice for you. I don't mean to offend, but if you haven't developed the sense of feel that will allow you to appreciate the difference between a factory rod and a finely made custom, then it would be hard to understand because it is hard to explain. I probably would not be able to distinquish the difference between some off the rack fiddle and a Stradivarius because I'm totally unfamiliar with violins and classical music. The difference is very experiential, not intellectual.

Stay around the game and develop your skills and you will understand. You almost certainly can tell that a Viking, McD etc. feels and performs better than a wall stick, right? Well, it's the same deal really, just at a higher level.

If you have been playing a while and consider your sense of feel pretty well developed, then just get a fine custom in your hands and you I think you will then know. ;)

Hope this helps.
 
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Why is it that every time i read about production versus custom, I get nauseated. It is a stick, you poke balls around on a table. Get one you like the looks of and swing away. And then to bring up spliced versus CNC, blah blah blah.
There is no magic in cues, my best customers are the ones that have read the endless BS or listened to some so called expert on what makes a quality cue, shaft, tip, balance, and on and on. Go rent a table and shoot in a few hundred thousand balls with anything, and you should get quite proficient with what ever you choose.
And to all you 'get this' , 'use that' experts, Thanks, I shall be eternally grateful.
 
Rockin' Robin said:
Why is it that every time i read about production versus custom, I get nauseated. It is a stick, you poke balls around on a table. Get one you like the looks of and swing away. And then to bring up spliced versus CNC, blah blah blah.
There is no magic in cues, my best customers are the ones that have read the endless BS or listened to some so called expert on what makes a quality cue, shaft, tip, balance, and on and on. Go rent a table and shoot in a few hundred thousand balls with anything, and you should get quite proficient with what ever you choose.
And to all you 'get this' , 'use that' experts, Thanks, I shall be eternally grateful.
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I agree 1000%. Sure, I use custom cues but I look at them more as a trophy than anything else. I played with a Schon and a plain white Cuetec until I was promoted to the A class here. When I was raised to A status I put some money into a nice Paul Mottey as a reward for all my hard work. My case right now has a Mottey, James White and a Tim Scruggs in it but on any day of the week I can pick up my old Cuetec and make balls the exact same way I do with these cues. Robin is correct, there is no magic in a cue. You can have every version of the 314 shaft ever made and if you're not aiming right and stroking straight the balls still won't miracle themselves in.
MULLY
 
poolplayer2093 said:
balance point is a big difference between custom and production cues
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How so? There are more than 500 brands of custom and production cues.

I bet that most custom and production cues are very similar in how they balance, within an inch or so.

I love a well made cue but what that means is personal to me. I think my first McDermott D-1 was made as well as any other cue on the planet that has ever been made. If you were to take brand names off of cues and submit them to independent testers with no prejudices then you would find that some brands which are vilified because they are "production" and "made overseas" would stand up quite well.

As players we all know what we like. We pick up a cue and it either feels great or not. But this is not because the cue is inherently good or bad, nor because it's production or custom. (by the way a cue that is not CUSTOMIZED is a PRODUCTION cue.)

It's because we as people are different in how we use things. We have different skill levels, different educations, different prejudices, and different experiences.

I have said this many times and this is once more where it's appropriate, it's damn hard to buy a BAD cue these days. We sell a $59 sneaky pete that I would put up against anyone else's cue all day everyday in an independent test. Every cue we sell can be used to win a world championship right out of the box. What more do you want?

I can pretty much guarantee that for any custom cue you can show me then I can find a cue in our inventory that has an identical balance point.
 
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