Pro's perspective on 100+ ball runs

Blackjack said:
It is also a good idea to keep the playing surface free of chalk and powder - I can't stand to see powder on cloth - seeing any color chalk on the cloth sends me into a tirade also. It causes the balls to skid and to react unpredictably.

FWIW, I also seem to do much better on TOUGHER equipment. In talking with John Schmidt and Danny Harriman it seems that i am not alone. Loose equipment doesn't always lead to monster runs - as matter of fact I get bored shooting the balls into bucket sized pockets. The tight pockets and faster cloth forces me to bring out my best game and to bear down and conentrate. My high run of 212 was done on on a GC 4 with 4 and 5/8 inch pockets and Simonis cloth. My recent 141 was done on 5 inch pockets on an old AMF table with 5 inch buckets and pathetically slow Mali cloth. I don't think I can hit 200 on that AMF table, but I would love to try to get 150 on a real tight Diamond just to go one on one with the conditions. :) - I'm sure John and Danny feel the same way. The high runs are more rewarding on the tougher tables.
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I have a couple questions on this section

(1) How are you supposed to avoid chalk on the cloth? When I follow through my tip naturally goes into the cloth, leaving a chalk mark. Or do you mean something else?

(2) I'm glad to hear that tighter equipment is better. I've been wanting to ask a good straight pool player like you how tight is too tight? My table has 4 and 1/8th inch pockets, which is quite a difference. I've only run 29 on this table but I'm not a good straight pool player yet. Do you think you could make a big run on this table? I think the most challenging part is the break shots on this table.

Thanks.
-Jeremy
 
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3andstop said:
BTW, I do believe there's a magic bullet. I believe it may be (and most likely is) different for all of us, but I feel that there is one outstanding thing that can be specifically sited as the main reason we progress from level to level. It does not stand alone, it is not the "be all" missing link, it may not even be something tangable, but I do feel there is for each of us, if we think back, something we can name as very distinct and instrumental in reaching the next level. I think little lights go off in our brain all the time that help us along to better play. I just feel that as we progress they are farther and fewer between and more difficult to recognize.

That being said, I merely wondered if a pro was able to offer some insite to that link.

The rest of us can play guru all we want, but if we haven't actually been to the mountain on a regular basis, it is no more than speculation.
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Ah Grasshopper, what you don't realize is that there are many mountains and some of the same tools are used to reach the top of more than one mountain. All of this talk of magic bullets and such reminds me of a simple little mental exercise that I have been neglecting that is indeed a magic bullet. I'm not qualified to share the information in this thread but I do want to give you a sincere thanks for reminding me to get back to using it myself.

Hu
 
Blackjack, thank you very much for offering your thoughts they are very insightful. I don't know if the following question has an answer because it can just vary so much, but when you spoke of proper patterns, is there any generic concept or concepts that you can pass along beyond addressing the problem balls and balls blocking pockets?


Takumi4G63 said:
(1) How are you supposed to avoid chalk on the cloth? When I follow through my tip naturally goes into the cloth, leaving a chalk mark. Or do you mean something else?
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I'm a real stickler for clean player area also. One thing that comes to mind for me (being a prior billiard room owner and having to clean lots of tables) is never to buy chalk the same color as the cloth. You tend to miss it on the table and it tends to build up more over time causing the balls to get dirty faster.
 
I Believe Patterns to be a big key to high runs, Ive watched alot of straight pool matches and alot of times I say to myself "why in the world are they shooting that shot" ? most of us aimlessly pot balls whitch we know we can pocket without realizing what a key ball is, the players I have watched may shoot around this ball untill they get the position they want on it, then things start to happen. So yes there is a Magic Bullet. The Magic being how to read the table. Since this can be taught but so elusive to so many players Id call it nothing less.

Ofcourse Skill is needed, but with all the skill in the world a player isnt going to acheive high runs unless the formula is known.

The Legends of the game are just that, not saying you can achieve legendary status but I do believe a good player with the right know how could exceed a 100 ball run on a regular basis if you have good habbits.

but thats my .02 so take it for what its worth...


SPINDOKTOR
 
Takumi4G63 said:
(2) I'm glad to hear that tighter equipment is better. I've been wanting to ask a good straight pool player like you how tight is too tight? My table has 4 and 1/8th inch pockets, which is quite a difference. I've only run 29 on this table but I'm not a good straight pool player yet. Do you think you could make a big run on this table? I think the most challenging part is the break shots on this table.

Thanks.
-Jeremy
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I believe that there is a different between tough equipment and impossible equipment. The most important part is how big the side pockets are. Many times you will have to send a ball into the side pocket at an angle to either open up a cluster or to manufacture a break ball. Sometimes you get under the balls and you are forced to use the side pockets also. If the pockets are so tight that they are unplayable and near impossible and impassable, then forget about the big numbers on that table. I believe that when the equipment is too tough that you become passive and tight in your stroke and your mental game suffers the same fate.

You also bring up a problem with break shots. On 4 and 1/8 inch pockets, that doesn't leave much room for error. Sometimes you will need to get an angle on the break shot and that pocket width would probably eliminate most of those shots completely out of your arsenal.
 
Blackjack said:
This is a great thread!

1) Equipment

For me this is extremely important. The balls need to be clean - the felt needs to be clean. If not, the balls will not spread properly and you will start to muscle the balls out of frustration - that's never a smart thing to do with straight pool.

I just got my Bluworth ball machine, and WOW does it make a difference to have clean, polished balls. Everything just rolls better, and the cue ball goes where you want it, (Well sometimes not). I think I've always underrated the importance of clean balls.

4) Getting the right break shot

snip

I also control the speed of my break shots and I try not to splatter the object balls up table. By doing so, I keep more balls in the triangle area which leaves me more break shot options than players that are banging and praying.

This is something I missed the first time I read this post. I hadn't considered this before but I like the concept. Of course, before I got the balls and cloth cleaned up, the balls tended to hang around the rack no matter how hard I hit the break shot. Thanks!

dwhite
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Blackjack said:
I believe that there is a different between tough equipment and impossible equipment. The most important part is how big the side pockets are. Many times you will have to send a ball into the side pocket at an angle to either open up a cluster or to manufacture a break ball. Sometimes you get under the balls and you are forced to use the side pockets also. If the pockets are so tight that they are unplayable and near impossible and impassable, then forget about the big numbers on that table. I believe that when the equipment is too tough that you become passive and tight in your stroke and your mental game suffers the same fate.

You also bring up a problem with break shots. On 4 and 1/8 inch pockets, that doesn't leave much room for error. Sometimes you will need to get an angle on the break shot and that pocket width would probably eliminate most of those shots completely out of your arsenal.
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My side pockets are 4 and 3/4" wide. There are times when my run ends because you could say I was robbed by my table, but I feel like this is rare. Usually my run ends because I lose my concentration and move on my stroke, I play a bad pattern, or I get much too far out of line. When I ran 29 the reason the run ended was because I got near straight on my break shot. I've only run over 20 once on this table but I've played less than 20 hours and again I'm not a great straight player.

When I'm really in stroke and my break ball is out far from the rail (making the pocket bigger) I don't have much problem making them but it is sometimes tough getting in stroke.

I understand what you say about my stroke tightening up and suffering mentally. This has definitely happened to me. In fact, after some people saying how my table sounds too tough I became fearful and played terribly. But once I loosen up and get confidence I can run out on this table and if I miss I usually deserve to miss. Perhaps having a table like this is a good thing because it will train me to bear down, focus, keep my concentration, and not taking anything for granted. If I could play position like Mosconi I think I could run 100 on this table. =)

We'll see in the next few months if I'm able to run a decent number.
 
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3andstop said:
I would be very interested in what pro's would offer as their TOP THREE reasons they are able to consistently exceed 100 ball runs. In watching many straight pool videos its pretty obvious that not missing is a pretty important factor :) But many of us can bear down and make (with position) shots which are far more demanding than most shots encountered during a pro's 100+ ball run.

So, if any consistant 100 ball runners are willing to share what they feel are the most important things that contribute to their ability, I'm sure lots of us would love to hear their thoughts.

Please, if possible, lets not clutter this thread with speculations or ideas from just A or B players, lets hope to hear it from the horse's mouths of those gifted folks who do this consistently.
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Well, I am not a pro, but I have run over 100 half a dozen times in the last six months and this week I've had an 86 and an 84 (damnit). I'm kinda currently in the midst of going through the 100 ball barrier you're asking about, sooo here's my take:

First, I believe it's how accurately you can stroke... how accurately you can control the speed of that stroke... and how well you can combine those skills and fractionate different cue ball hits to produce consistent outcomes. I know you could say: well, that's for all pool games -- but IMO it is what it takes to run 100s.

From there you need to develop a certain simplicity and elegance in your game, which are qualities that are very tough to come by. You need to be able to see the simple paths and then execute the simple shots. This means developing the discipline of thinking before shooting and mastering the small cue ball movements that move it a scooch there or a smidge over there, usually without going to a rail.

Then, you need to master certain shots that come up often at 14.1, like shooting break shots firmly and confidently (noticed I didn't say whacking the bejesus out of them); bumping balls into favorable positions; manufacturing break balls; and managing clusters.

Finally, I think it becomes a matter of confidence. You learn to avoid playing area position and trying to whack the balls apart and instead, believe in your skills to take the rack apart within the framework of a specific and logical plan. That's often called playing or seeing patterns.

And that's it. I'm sure there's more and when I get to the 200 ball level I'll be sure to send a postcard :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
Thank you very much for your reply. I believe your words are very true. I think I'm guilty of not seeing the open lanes and options for pocketing balls using these small movements as often as I may be able to.

When I do manage 2 or 3 or more racks, I find myself thinking geez that was pretty easy. Of course playing for many yrs is still no substitute for playing often. Lately, since I resparked interest in the game, I'm probably not playing more that 5 hrs a week and thats not enough. Concentration, mind wandering is a problem for me too.

I may have to take this show on the road and play a little for money a few times a week, maybe get slapped around a little, to kind of force that focus back again. I've only been playing at my buddy's house or mine and I know I'm not really zoning in well. We both have 9' tables and its so convenient, I have no drive to visit a poolroom. Not to mention it would probably be tough to find a halfway decent game of straight pool. I really dislike 9 ball, and although I do enjoy some one-pocket, its not the best thing to play for developing long term concentration.

Hmm, maybe I'm just over the hill too :)
 
Blackjack said:
I believe that there is a different between tough equipment and impossible equipment. The most important part is how big the side pockets are. Many times you will have to send a ball into the side pocket at an angle to either open up a cluster or to manufacture a break ball. Sometimes you get under the balls and you are forced to use the side pockets also. If the pockets are so tight that they are unplayable and near impossible and impassable, then forget about the big numbers on that table. I believe that when the equipment is too tough that you become passive and tight in your stroke and your mental game suffers the same fate.

You also bring up a problem with break shots. On 4 and 1/8 inch pockets, that doesn't leave much room for error. Sometimes you will need to get an angle on the break shot and that pocket width would probably eliminate most of those shots completely out of your arsenal.
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The table I frequent have a decent opening but the throat is very small, If you hit the flat part of the rail inside the pocket it will bobble. The slate also pertudes in the pocket way to far and has no bevel, the slate is flat, so the ball can travel very deep into the pocket but not fall. These are Olhousen 9 footers. I dont think 200+ is gonna happen on these tables, not by me anyhow..

Compared to say a Gold Crown where it looks like marbles beside the pockets these Olhousen tables are pretty tough.


SPINDOKTOR
 
I just saw this post and there is alot of good info in it.
Thanks
By the way I just got my high run of 41 on a bar box. It's the best I've done so I'm happy. It makes want to do better.
 
Steve Lipsky said:
3,

I stand by my original advice. But I'll go further now.

Running 100 balls is a frame of mind. You need a high level of skill to do it, and to insinuate anything different is not fair. I'm not saying you are; I'm saying that changing a mindset in a 30-ball runner is not instantly going to make him a 100-ball runner. You need a certain skill set and until you have it, you're not going to run a lot of balls consistently. I am not saying YOU don't have it, mind you; I am talking generically about a 30-ball runner.

That said, back to my original advice. The run should be getting easier as it progresses. Your mindset must be not "I have to keep doing good things to continue the run", but instead, "Something bad is going to have to happen to end this run."

It does not take inordinate amounts of concentration to run this many balls, because most of your shots should be very easy. If in every rack you're forced to take one or two 50% shots, then (math aside) you're probably not going to run 100. You're wasting too much energy focusing on one ball. While at the table, your external focus is on shooting every ball - but your internal focus should be nothing of the kind. Your internal focus should be on keeping your rhythm and feeling the art of what you are creating. It might sound pretentious, but it's not meant to be. Every well-played large run is a thing of beauty; it should not be taken for granted. At the end of the run, you will have a general feeling of satisfaction with what you have done; you won't be thinking "in the third rack, I got really nice position from the 5 to 3." It's no longer about the individual shots... it's about the sum of all the shots together and what they let you create.

As the run progresses, and you are into some high numbers, every succeeding shot should have a difficulty function exactly equal to that individual shot's difficulty. Once the shot becomes more difficult simply because of the number you're on, you're done. You probably won't run another 7 balls once the run itself is making things more difficult.

For me, the shots start becoming more difficult once I'm around the 130-140 range. I have a suspicion that for a player like Blackjack, that number is around the 170-180 range. For Mr. Schmidt, Mr. Hohmann, or Mr. Harriman, who knows, maybe it never happens. You raise this number by consistently getting there and surpassing it.

- Steve

P.S. Your adrenaline should carry you through the latter parts of a large run. The toughest thing to do is run a lot of balls, miss, your opponent misses, and then get back to the table starting at a run of 0. But this is a different question than what you are asking, in my opinion.
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Steve,
Many thanks for your responses in this thread. Very inspirational; you are definitely the kind of pool player that is always welcome in Betmore's Basement. Anyone who sees a run (or a difficult rack dissected) as a thing of beauty really "gets it".

I will not only continue to try to implement your suggestions, but will also copy your post and pin it up on the wall for a while in hopes that a little bit of that inspiration and philosophy will rub off a bit on the players in "the Basement" trying so diligently to improve their games (there are quite a few of us now).
 
3andstop said:
I would be very interested in what pro's would offer as their TOP THREE reasons they are able to consistently exceed 100 ball runs. In watching many straight pool videos its pretty obvious that not missing is a pretty important factor :) But many of us can bear down and make (with position) shots which are far more demanding than most shots encountered during a pro's 100+ ball run.

So, if any consistant 100 ball runners are willing to share what they feel are the most important things that contribute to their ability, I'm sure lots of us would love to hear their thoughts.

Please, if possible, lets not clutter this thread with speculations or ideas from just A or B players, lets hope to hear it from the horse's mouths of those gifted folks who do this consistently.
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Well here is some advise for the 14.1 players out there.To be able to make high runs there are several things that come to mind.First i like to get warmed up instead of playing cold.This will get your stroke ready and make you comfortable with the table you are playing on.Next look at all possibilities on all shots you might be missing a decision you could be making and even a dead ball every now and then.Play your speed of pool you will know your speed once you get through 2 or 3 racks.I think it is much easier to have high runs in practice as you can be aggresive all the time without any opponent.if you have an opponent and you are on a 30 ball or so run by keeping your opponent in his chair it might to start to feel like practice.Also set your self some goals like 50 ball run,75 ball run, and so on.My goal everyday is to run 100 balls most of the time it doesnt happen however it has happened now over 300 times.(high run 227)
Thanks,
Bobby Chamberlain
WWW.BOBBYCHAMBERLAIN.COM
 
Steve Lipsky said:
... Once the shot becomes more difficult simply because of the number you're on, you're done. You probably won't run another 7 balls once the run itself is making things more difficult ...
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Thanks for all of your advice, but this especially hit home with me. This is what stops 90% of the runs when I'm over 20. I get excited and start thinking of getting over 30, but almost always mess it up.

Thanks again!
 
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