Question about Jose Parica

[jay helfert]

9-7 and the breaks to Keith.
5 ball and the breaks to Gerry Brunsetter.
6 out to Sergio in Riverside.
15-5 to AL Romero. Al himself told me he had the world. But, Efen outran it.
When Vitor was backing Efren, Efren took all matches that were made. Why wouldn't he?
They flew to play Wetch and CJ Wiley to their home court. Among the many .

PS
I saw Schmidt run over Parica getting 9-7 at Shooters. But, they wanted another ball from Efren. Tells me, Efren was a little.better one holder.

No question that Efren was better at One Hole. He gave weight to the world at that game! I was in with Keith when he got 9-7, break apiece. After I lost 2K at a thousand a game I gave up and Keith continued on his own. This was in Chicago after Keith had gotten a hefty paycheck for his work on TCOM. He donated most of it to Efren that night.

I was also "in" when Efren gave 11-6 to little Toby at the Cue Club in Vegas on the very tight front table. I was betting 500 a game on Toby and won 3K that night before Efren pulled up. CJ did in fact chase Efren up to Seattle and other places to play more 9-Ball, and ended up making Effie give up, playing even! One more loss chalked up to Sir Efren was his Challenge Match for 4,000 against Cecil Tugwell at Hard Times Bellflower. For Cecil it was his home court and he was the best One Pocket player in L.A. at the time. All the money got bet on Efren (at 2-1 and 3-1 odds) but no matter as Cecil upset the apple cart. I believe the final score was 6-4.

To Efren's credit he spotted the best One Pocket players like Cliff who was considered by many to be the second best at the time 9-7, 9-8 and a young Tony Chohan 10-8, and won both times. Efren reigned supreme at One Pocket for over twenty years. I'm not sure if and when they played but Allen Hopkins was probably the only player who could play Efren even. Grady claimed to be able to do that, but he got smothered when he tried.

Funny thing about the above, Efren wouldn't play Sergio even on a bar table. I never saw Efren play on a bar table. He thought they were children's toys! I thought he gave Al 11-5, but maybe I didn't get the right info. I have one victory over Al in a One Pocket tournament (2-1). The highlight of my non existent pool career.

 

[jay helfert]

We have both seen so many amazing players over the years. I only saw videos of Lassiter and he was older, never seen anything with Worst playing.
I agree with just about everything you say, I do feel the need to toss Rags name in the mix because my buddy George spoke so reverently of him , and he was not big on compliments, I wish I could have seen him play. George told me he was enough better than everyone else that it wasn't even a question among other players.
Also the Mysterious Phillipino guy who was a legend over there but couldn't get in the US. I can't remember his name, he must have been something else. .
I believe like you, that the equipment changes were so big that they changed the dynamics of the games , It is still a ball going in a hole though, and I am as sure as I can be that guys like Orcollo Filler and Gorst and others ,would have been just as good in 1965, as they are today.
My big question is how the players of the 20th century would have done on this new equipment, Some of those guys, Sigel comes to mind , used the whole pocket and about a foot of the rail to make balls . You can forget that today, The pockets are smaller the shelfs cut deeper, I think some of those olden guys would have had a terrible time on this new equipment. I have to give Earl Strickland a lot of credit, he had so many things against him with the equipment and father time and he still plays at a high level. He's number 8 of all US players, that's amazing!
I picked Efren based on many things, most of all , his dominance over all of his competition for over 30 years.
No matter who was the greatest, Efren advanced the games farther than anyone else imo, he was making kick shots in the hole or to a dead safety , when most champions were just trying to hit the ball, of course they had to get better and did. He mastered the tit shots before anyone else , the rail first banks in one pocket. Nobody was shooting those back in the 70s, before him they were just trick shots when you got bored, he made them viable weapons. Any pool room you go in and watch good players at one pocket, you keep seeing Efrens shots and moves over and over, No one knew where to leave him , because he always had a return shot that made you sick that you chose that spot to leave him in.
I do think his break especially at 9 ball was a big deficit, but he still beat all of the other champions despite it, that is hard to believe actually , because when you ask any great player what is the most important part of the game , it's always the break.
If he had the break of Wade Crane , Tony Ellin or Shannon Daulton, well, who knows.
And please everyone, I am a huge fan of Jose Parica, don't make it something it is not. I just reread this and realized we both slept "The Lion". He was one of the few guys that pushed Efren, an amazing player and worthy of any conversation about the "Greats"
I have one Parica story I think most will like. I watched him spotting a very well known player, I can't remember the spot exactly , but it was serious, like the last 3 or something like that in a race to 7, They were both playing one handed but Jose had to play jacked up.
Jose just ran out every game like he was using 2 hands , I would have bet every dime I could get my hands on , no one could play that well jacked up, especially someone his height . Maybe 5'4" ?

Very knowledgeable post here! YES to Rags, John Fitzpatrick, who died young at 40 in 1960. I heard all about him when I entered the scene in 1962. I missed seeing him play, but to a man they said he was the best player alive during his time. Only Lassiter and maybe George Rood could play him even at 9-Ball. And no one could at One Pocket, although Clem was said to have tried a couple of times and gave up. I did see Harold Worst play on several occasions and it left a lasting impression on me. He went about his business in a cool and calm manner as he destroyed every hustler who crossed his path, finally getting their full respect. To this day Worst was the most impressive man I ever saw play pool. There was something about him that transcended the game. He "Mastered" the game of pool, like no one before or since. Don't get me wrong, the current champions are great, great players, but none have the composure and discipline that Worst did, and it's not even close. He never batted an eye and seemed to relish any challenge he faced.

 

[jay helfert]

many made a lot of money jacked up. i remember when guys would tell the player just leave him in the middle of the table when in a one handed game.
just made the shot easier if jacked up in the middle than a longer on the rail one handed shot. still few understand how to spot against a one handed player.

i remember miami playing a road guy nine ball in his room in paterson. and stuck pretty good even game. so miami said,, give me the 8,,, and ill play one handed and raise the bet a little. got all his money back and then some. hows that.

I knew Miami too. He was no bigger than Alex! Hardcore hustler, always after me to play him. He wanted me to play his one hand to my two. No bueno is all I said to him over and over! I knew him from his days partnered up with Danny Jones in Columbus and traveling the Midwest together. I so much wanted to see him play Chris Raftos in Dayton but I never saw Miami there. Appeared to me he didn't really want to tangle with Raftos. That would have been epic! I do know that Raftos invited him and Danny to come to Dayton and Rood was going to back him for any amount! Never happened as far as I know.

 

[1pocket]

I saw all of Jean's prime up close. I think that you've got her level of play at 9ball about right. No way she was ever 750, probably more like 725. Still, she was as talented as any woman that ever picked up a cue stick. She had nobody pushing her to reach her potential. She was winning everything in sight and had no reason to raise her level any higher than where it was.

Jean's main rivals, Robin Bell Dodson, Belinda Bearden Calhoun, Loree Jon Jones and Ewa Mataya Laurance, rarely beat her. Allison, on the other hand, had Karen Corr, Ga Young Kim, Gerda Hofstatter, Jasmin Ouschan and Jeanette Lee to push her to her to a higher and higher level. The bar has been raised again by Han Yu and Siming Chen and I suspect the level will go even higher. Comparisons across generations are near impossible.

Finally, as for Jean's high run, it means nothing. Women's world championship matches were races to 75 and only the final went to 100. Jean didn't practice much, and certainly played better 14.1 than many who'd run over 200 multiple times. Talk to the male pros of that era and they'll tell you she was a Top 30 player in the world at straight pool.

... and Gloria Walker (among Jean's rivals). Gloria I believe was ranked #1 one year during Jean's reign, and several times 2nd. That's my recollection anyway, which could be wrong.

 

[jay helfert]

I was at Reds when Cesear Morales (Efren Arrived) He beat everyone/but.
Before his second to last match he played ''all puffed up'' Medina some 9 ball and ran over em.
Then, the Bullfrog, waiting for the Pinoy to wear down via his prior wins, took em down.

Buddy Hall

I was there too and actually refereed that money match for 10K total (5K each). Efren looked tired in that match, a Race to Eleven, and did not play as well as he had earlier in the week. Buddy won 11-8. They were supposed to play again the next day but Efren's backers took him and beat it out of town. They were still winners like 50K for the week!

 

[jay helfert]

We have both seen so many amazing players over the years. I only saw videos of Lassiter and he was older, never seen anything with Worst playing.
I agree with just about everything you say, I do feel the need to toss Rags name in the mix because my buddy George spoke so reverently of him , and he was not big on compliments, I wish I could have seen him play. George told me he was enough better than everyone else that it wasn't even a question among other players.
Also the Mysterious Phillipino guy who was a legend over there but couldn't get in the US. I can't remember his name, he must have been something else. .
I believe like you, that the equipment changes were so big that they changed the dynamics of the games , It is still a ball going in a hole though, and I am as sure as I can be that guys like Orcollo Filler and Gorst and others ,would have been just as good in 1965, as they are today.
My big question is how the players of the 20th century would have done on this new equipment, Some of those guys, Sigel comes to mind , used the whole pocket and about a foot of the rail to make balls . You can forget that today, The pockets are smaller the shelfs cut deeper, I think some of those olden guys would have had a terrible time on this new equipment. I have to give Earl Strickland a lot of credit, he had so many things against him with the equipment and father time and he still plays at a high level. He's number 8 of all US players, that's amazing!
I picked Efren based on many things, most of all , his dominance over all of his competition for over 30 years.
No matter who was the greatest, Efren advanced the games farther than anyone else imo, he was making kick shots in the hole or to a dead safety , when most champions were just trying to hit the ball, of course they had to get better and did. He mastered the tit shots before anyone else , the rail first banks in one pocket. Nobody was shooting those back in the 70s, before him they were just trick shots when you got bored, he made them viable weapons. Any pool room you go in and watch good players at one pocket, you keep seeing Efrens shots and moves over and over, No one knew where to leave him , because he always had a return shot that made you sick that you chose that spot to leave him in.
I do think his break especially at 9 ball was a big deficit, but he still beat all of the other champions despite it, that is hard to believe actually , because when you ask any great player what is the most important part of the game , it's always the break.
If he had the break of Wade Crane , Tony Ellin or Shannon Daulton, well, who knows.
And please everyone, I am a huge fan of Jose Parica, don't make it something it is not. I just reread this and realized we both slept "The Lion". He was one of the few guys that pushed Efren, an amazing player and worthy of any conversation about the "Greats"
I have one Parica story I think most will like. I watched him spotting a very well known player, I can't remember the spot exactly , but it was serious, like the last 3 or something like that in a race to 7, They were both playing one handed but Jose had to play jacked up.
Jose just ran out every game like he was using 2 hands , I would have bet every dime I could get my hands on , no one could play that well jacked up, especially someone his height . Maybe 5'4" ?

Efren most definitely elevated the art of kicking at balls from fundamental to advanced. It took our players about six months of diligent practice to duplicate what he was doing. Not quite as well but passable. No question he changed the way 9-Ball was played before the advent of the jump cue, which once again reshaped 9-Ball.

Alex can rightfully be included in anyone's top ten all time! I will edit my earlier post.

 

[sjm]

... and Gloria Walker (among Jean's rivals). Gloria I believe was ranked #1 one year during Jean's reign, and several times 2nd. That's my recollection anyway, which could be wrong.

Gloria's level was quite a bit below the others mentioned.

 

[maha]

miami was certainly the best one handed player for his speed ever. he was only about a good A player not pro speed or close to it.
the only one he ever said could beat him was his friend aguza or something like that, also from puerto rico.
he came around a few times and beat everyone especially on bar tables.

 

[maha]

generally when two top players play the one that is having the best day and the best rolls wins. they all play very close in speed so having a little off day can mean curtains that day. its only their total record that determines anything. not a short spurt of beating one or two players one day.

plus you never know what deal was in place. only when each player is betting his own and no side betting allowed then you can figure its good

 

[gregcantrall]

One more loss chalked up to Sir Efren was his Challenge Match for 4,000 against Cecil Tugwell at Hard Times Bellflower. For Cecil it was his home court and he was the best One Pocket player in L.A. at the time. All the money got bet on Efren (at 2-1 and 3-1 odds) but no matter as Cecil upset the apple cart. I believe the final score was 6-4.

Wasn't it Cecil and Cole that that played 7 games of 1 pocket in 35 minutes? With the breaker running 8 in their second inning, every game.

 

[pt109]

I knew Miami too. He was no bigger than Alex! Hardcore hustler, always after me to play him. He wanted me to play his one hand to my two. No bueno is all I said to him over and over! I knew him from his days partnered up with Danny Jones in Columbus and traveling the Midwest together. I so much wanted to see him play Chris Raftos in Dayton but I never saw Miami there. Appeared to me he didn't really want to tangle with Raftos. That would have been epic! I do know that Raftos invited him and Danny to come to Dayton and Rood was going to back him for any amount! Never happened as far as I know.

I saw Miami play several times around Detroit…..I would’ve unloaded on Ronnie Allen

 

[Island Drive]

generally when two top players play the one that is having the best day and the best rolls wins. they all play very close in speed so having a little off day can mean curtains that day. its only their total record that determines anything. not a short spurt of beating one or two players one day.

plus you never know what deal was in place. only when each player is betting his own and no side betting allowed then you can figure its good

Fat's and Huber Cokes, per Evelyn bet high, money meant nothing between these two men.
They locked horns and it was only the man that Rudolph did this with, back in their youth.
And Daddy Warbucks took Varner under wing after the Jansco days.

 

[book collector]

I knew Miami too. He was no bigger than Alex! Hardcore hustler, always after me to play him. He wanted me to play his one hand to my two. No bueno is all I said to him over and over! I knew him from his days partnered up with Danny Jones in Columbus and traveling the Midwest together. I so much wanted to see him play Chris Raftos in Dayton but I never saw Miami there. Appeared to me he didn't really want to tangle with Raftos. That would have been epic! I do know that Raftos invited him and Danny to come to Dayton and Rood was going to back him for any amount! Never happened as far as I know.

I Think I have a small billiards book written by a guy named Christos Raftos. Raftis? It might even be a typed pamphlet . I have several of those by guys almost nobody ever heard of .
I'll try to go up and see if I can find it.

 

[JoeyInCali]

No question that Efren was better at One Hole. He gave weight to the world at that game! I was in with Keith when he got 9-7, break apiece. After I lost 2K at a thousand a game I gave up and Keith continued on his own. This was in Chicago after Keith had gotten a hefty paycheck for his work on TCOM. He donated most of it to Efren that night.

I was also "in" when Efren gave 11-6 to little Toby at the Cue Club in Vegas on the very tight front table. I was betting 500 a game on Toby and won 3K that night before Efren pulled up. CJ did in fact chase Efren up to Seattle and other places to play more 9-Ball, and ended up making Effie give up, playing even! One more loss chalked up to Sir Efren was his Challenge Match for 4,000 against Cecil Tugwell at Hard Times Bellflower. For Cecil it was his home court and he was the best One Pocket player in L.A. at the time. All the money got bet on Efren (at 2-1 and 3-1 odds) but no matter as Cecil upset the apple cart. I believe the final score was 6-4.

To Efren's credit he spotted the best One Pocket players like Cliff who was considered by many to be the second best at the time 9-7, 9-8 and a young Tony Chohan 10-8, and won both times. Efren reigned supreme at One Pocket for over twenty years. I'm not sure if and when they played but Allen Hopkins was probably the only player who could play Efren even. Grady claimed to be able to do that, but he got smothered when he tried.

Funny thing about the above, Efren wouldn't play Sergio even on a bar table. I never saw Efren play on a bar table. He thought they were children's toys! I thought he gave Al 11-5, but maybe I didn't get the right info. I have one victory over Al in a One Pocket tournament (2-1). The highlight of my non existent pool career.

That would have been 1986 or 1987 when he robbed Keith.
That's insane if you consider the short time Efren learned the game.
The Grady Efren infamous match at HT was actually recorded as you know.
Saw a vhs copy at Alex's place one time..
Efren was still a smoker then and HT was freaking smokey.
It used to stink in there.

I saw some of that Efren Toby in Las Vegas with the late cue maker Judd Fuller. I left before it was over. Efren gave up too much playing on Toby's home turf and table according to Judd.
I heard later Jack Cooney went there and beat Toby. I don't know what year.
I know when we went there , it was right after Bustamante won the Camel World 8-Ball at the Riviera. The year Bustamante became POTY.

 

[maha]

fats and hubert were good friends and fats was about the only guy who wasnt afraid of hubert, and gambled with him.
he said even though we were tight i still tried not to have him get mad at me.
fats was the only person back then that i felt okay with him walking off with six figures of my end and meeting me up later.

 

[JAM]

I feel the need to interject that when Efren first came to the States, he wouldn't play Keith McCready even, meaning no spot, in any game. Efren's backers steered him away from Keith. Fast forward to when Keith aged well into his 40s and 50s. Efren and Keith matched up many times in games of stake. Efren did spot Keith in one-pocket in the later years of Keith's life. The two of them didn't engage in games of stake in 9-ball very often, though. One-pocket was, and still is, the game of kings, veterans players, and champions.

I find these "Who's the Best" threads really challenging to read sometimes. When we'd go to regional tour events, I'd always get a kick out of somebody saying, with pride, "I beat Jim Rempe" or "I beat Keith McCready" or "I beat Jose Parica" or "I beat Earl Strickland." Of course, they were not in their prime, number one. Number two, in case you haven't noticed, 9-ball, with it's short races, is dependent on the break and whether the rack is fair. Let's be honest about it. The luck factor is major in 9-ball, unless, of course, it's an ahead game or a race to 100. 9-ball with its short races is quite different than one-pocket which requires cueing skills of all levels, e.g., defense/offense, banking, long shots, et cetera. The break in one-pocket doesn't usually determine the winner of the frame/game. This is why most seasoned pros prefer one-pocket for action.

Not taking anything away from Efren Reyes. Of course, he's the GOAT of pool. When you can get a photo of Efren smiling, you've got a pool treasure, and I got one. Why? Because Efren and Keith are good friends and remain that way today. They've both been through quite a few battles together and still have a great deal of respect for each other. Photo taken in 2003 at the U.S. Open in Virginia.

 

[Island Drive]

A great thought.... Efren Reyes vs Eddie Taylor in one pocket.
I think they would much rather of become friends than try and play one other.
The cleanliness of the table conditions in the 1900's was probably better than some of the ''talcum'' powder matches one sees going in in the Philippines.
Eddie played before air conditioning, and Efren plays under a tent .
Both these men Knew how to Play under Extreme humidity, which benefits the player who banks better.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I feel the need to interject that when Efren first came to the States, he wouldn't play Keith McCready even, meaning no spot, in any game. Efren's backers steered him away from Keith. Fast forward to when Keith aged well into his 40s and 50s. Efren and Keith matched up many times in games of stake. Efren did spot Keith in one-pocket in the later years of Keith's life. The two of them didn't engage in games of stake in 9-ball very often, though. One-pocket was, and still is, the game of kings, veterans players, and champions.

I find these "Who's the Best" threads really challenging to read sometimes. When we'd go to regional tour events, I'd always get a kick out of somebody saying, with pride, "I beat Jim Rempe" or "I beat Keith McCready" or "I beat Jose Parica" or "I beat Earl Strickland." Of course, they were not in their prime, number one. Number two, in case you haven't noticed, 9-ball, with it's short races, is dependent on the break and whether the rack is fair. Let's be honest about it. The luck factor is major in 9-ball, unless, of course, it's an ahead game or a race to 100. 9-ball with its short races is quite different than one-pocket which requires cueing skills of all levels, e.g., defense/offense, banking, long shots, et cetera. The break in one-pocket doesn't usually determine the winner of the frame/game. This is why most seasoned pros prefer one-pocket for action.

Not taking anything away from Efren Reyes. Of course, he's the GOAT of pool. When you can get a photo of Efren smiling, you've got a pool treasure, and I got one. Why? Because Efren and Keith are good friends and remain that way today. They've both been through quite a few battles together and still have a great deal of respect for each other. Photo taken in 2003 at the U.S. Open in Virginia.

View attachment 748346

I thought Efren best Keith at Red's the first time he came over?
Story I read was Keith said to Buddy, " I can't shake this guy ".
Efren beat everyone but Buddy.

 

[maha]

players skip others for reasons of not being afraid. beat some and it kills your action or they dont lose enough or have enough money to lose in the first place.
it was stupid to play efrin as he most times didnt lose too much if he was having a tough time of it. where as many of the american players emptied out every time they got beat.

 

[gregcantrall]

The luck factor is major in 9-ball,

So I would assume that the match I won playing John Schmidt 9 ball was nothing to crow about. Well a race to 2 on a 7 foot Diamond and magic rack diminish the size of the accomplished. I did know and execute the 9 ball break with that equipment.