Question to the cuemakers or the knowledge people

A

asbani

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A friend of mine asked me this question two days ago. and to tell you the truth, I didn't know how to answer him.

I was holding a predator 314 shaft, and a Z shaft, and I happen to have an OB-1 Shaft in my case.

so this friend of mine who just recently started to learn about pool and cues has asked me this.

What is the different between those shafts, and what makes them better than the original Shaft?

I said (And correct me if i'm wrong) ; There is no better, The predator and OB-1 shafts has a low deflection, and thats is all. the original shaft has it's deflection slightly higher.

you see? I read this in websites/books, but Then he asked again this.

(What would i learn if i use a low deflection shaft like a predator and what would i learn if i use an original shaft)

and to tell you the truth, I have no answer to that question, so please cue makers Tell us, What is the advantage of the player who plays all of his life in Original Shafts. Does he have an advantage over the player who plays with predator/ob1? Will he learn or do few shots that a guy who's using low deflection shaft does? I'm looking for an answer for the above questions. please enlightenment me

(I didn't ask this in the main forums in porpuse. because I see alot of threads about shafts there. and some people might think that I haven't search for this question and then flame me with "Search for threads" When I actually did search and didn't find the same question i'm looking for) so i figure if i ask the pro's & cuemakers who actually watch this forum. whom i also believe that has alot of knowledge.

Thanks in advance.
 
You are correct, there is not one better than the other, there is better for you. So what you learn based on your personal preference is, which one is more comfortable for you. I will say that no matter which one you decide to play with, You still have to think. To some people that's still a hard task.
 
They both have pluses and minuses... Mr. Webb has summed it up nicely, it really does boil down to personal preference.
 
Michael Webb said:
You are correct, there is not one better than the other, there is better for you. So what you learn based on your personal preference is, which one is more comfortable for you. I will say that no matter which one you decide to play with, You still have to think. To some people that's still a hard task.
Click to expand...
Tap, Tap, Tap, ... very well put, Mike.
Dave
 
I played with a 314 for years. I recently switched back. Takes time to adjust. You can excel with either but not both. Choose one and stick with it.
 
The biggest difference I see playing with radial lams and solid 1 piece shafts is on off center hits left and right english. A non Moochie shaft will push the ball left with right english and right with left english. Now the spin on the ball will make the ball masse back or more I never tested it scientifically. I know what I see. If you hit a left english shot the ball curves. Pred does not push the ball as much instead the shaft moves. This is all IMHO
 
mother

Michael Webb said:
You are correct, there is not one better than the other, there is better for you. So what you learn based on your personal preference is, which one is more comfortable for you. I will say that no matter which one you decide to play with, You still have to think. To some people that's still a hard task.
Click to expand...
Hey, Mike,
I, after all these years, have seen them all. I, feel as I did, for all these years, DON'T MESS WITH MOTHER NATURE, another words, play with a natural shaft, when you glue all those pices together, the shaft gets stiff..
Good old maple, and using your natural touch, feel, and brain, is best.
Leave it to mother nature, after all, anything man has touched, that god made, well, you know the answer.
blud
 
blud said:
...Good old maple, and using your natural touch, feel, and brain, is best...
blud
Click to expand...

Exactly what I think :thumbup2:

And in consequence, a "Good Old Maple Shaft" (GOMS) provides much better feeling and feedback than any spliced or laminated shaft will never give.

I have played many years with predator (314 and Z) and was never satisfied of the hit and the feedback of the cue. I'm back with GOMS from one year, it takes me around 3 months to totally adjust my game, and I have much more pleasure to play now !

Sensation/feel is an important part of the game and the spliced/laminated shafts are really poor in this domain. Deflection is also very useful for some shots...
 
Last edited:
GOMS every time. Until the late '90's that is all there was and no one had any problems until Predator told them they did.

No matter what you play with, you have to get used to it and while maple stays the same, the others don't.
 
ratcues said:
If you are not good enough without it, you will never be good enough with it.
Click to expand...

You guys cannot be serious!?!?!?!

You mean I won't play like a champion if I play with the shafts they are paid to play with???

You mean the good folks at Predator, OB-1 etc are trying to sell a product???

You mean the laws of physics still apply to those dead playing, air cavity, laminated tipped, laser shafts shaped by computer?

So I will still need to learn to play? What a concept.

Ok, let me get this straight; are you saying that balls have been made and racks run when players were NOT using the latest in layered lego technology? But what about Balabushkas, Willie played with those and those used.... no wait. Maybe you're right. :o

Toungue in cheek aside, I feel the same way. I could see a radial laminate shaft being an answer when we can't find decent, clean shaft wood anymore, but so far, every single, one I've played with that had the cavity, and all the other "enhancements" hit like a dead stack of stale cheese.

For maybe 60 years we cared about the hit, realizing you had to spend time with ANY new cue to learn the difference fro one to another. The hit was it. They found a way to market a dead hitting cue as the thing to have.

It's marketing. Smoochy did the same thing in the 80's and 90's, bringing the terms "zero-deflection" and "pro-taper" to the masses. they hit like vermacelli, but he sold one to every banger in every bar.

The Predator folks have done a great job of answering a question no one asked. They took the myth / variable / catch phrase "zero deflection" and convinced us we couldn't make a ball without it. They created a "need", They made millions, good for them.

But until they hit better, I"ll pass.
 
Last edited:
shafts

When you come to the table to play, you come with what you know and with what you have practiced. I would stress the advantage of equipment (I am a custom cue maker), yet I have never seen any equipment that was a good substitute for either one of the former. I think that is what Ryan was saying. The cuemakers and players here on this forum are aware of how to change the way a cue plays and of what changes they like. I am sure that they will spend hours practicing with equipment that they have selected. Are you doing yourself any favor by learning to play with one set of equipment rather than another? Perhaps, But I think most experienced players have learned to select and chosen what they like. Your tests should include whether your equipment plays over the range of shots that are involved with the specific games you play. For example, I would not want to use my 9 ball shaft while playing billiards. If you intend to only play nine ball, and you are comfortable with your shaft, then why change? For me, I happen to believe that there is much more out there to learn and practice and that is the challenge/frustration of the sport. I think in all honesty, every shaft or cue will break down under certain shot conditions and experience and practice lets you avoid those situations. I have changed cues every few months because someone has just had to have my personal playing cue and I am back to practicing again and finding the new limits of another cue. I have grown because of it. I can adjust much faster now and I can feel those limits and adjust. I can also identify what I like and don't like (almost immediately). As for the shaft and cue companies, if they are successful in this industry, good for them. I took some time because you sounded sincere and sometimes this forum can be a bit harsh. I hope this has helped you, Kent Davis:duck:
 
Last edited:
Paul Dayton said:
GOMS every time. Until the late '90's that is all there was and no one had any problems until Predator told them they did.
Click to expand...

That's because they capitalized on straight sales tactics, Create questionable doubt. Seems to have worked based on their numbers.:bash:
 
I have all three shafts and they all feel different and not the same hit when put on different butts, The OB-1 tip is too soft, The Z shaft is difficult to play with and I use it for snooker. The 314 2nd is an awesome shaft, but only on my adam's stick. When I put it on three different Schon butts its not the same feel/hit. There is something special about the Adams GB-21 and the a 30" pedator 314 shaft.
 
again it all a matter of preference.....i play with old growth maple shafts and IMHO, there is nothing better than the old stuff....it feels different in my hands than a 314 or any other spliced laminated shaft. but again, i have friends that play better with a 314...it is all a matter of what YOU shoot best with no matter what kind of "deflection" is present. just my 2 cents
 
asbani said:
A friend of mine asked me this question two days ago. and to tell you the truth, I didn't know how to answer him.

I was holding a predator 314 shaft, and a Z shaft, and I happen to have an OB-1 Shaft in my case.

so this friend of mine who just recently started to learn about pool and cues has asked me this.

What is the different between those shafts, and what makes them better than the original Shaft?

I said (And correct me if i'm wrong) ; There is no better, The predator and OB-1 shafts has a low deflection, and thats is all. the original shaft has it's deflection slightly higher.

you see? I read this in websites/books, but Then he asked again this.

(What would i learn if i use a low deflection shaft like a predator and what would i learn if i use an original shaft)

and to tell you the truth, I have no answer to that question, so please cue makers Tell us, What is the advantage of the player who plays all of his life in Original Shafts. Does he have an advantage over the player who plays with predator/ob1? Will he learn or do few shots that a guy who's using low deflection shaft does? I'm looking for an answer for the above questions. please enlightenment me

(I didn't ask this in the main forums in porpuse. because I see alot of threads about shafts there. and some people might think that I haven't search for this question and then flame me with "Search for threads" When I actually did search and didn't find the same question i'm looking for) so i figure if i ask the pro's & cuemakers who actually watch this forum. whom i also believe that has alot of knowledge.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

The laminated shafts are designed to flex more which allows the tip to stay on the cueball longer which increases the accuracy significantly !!!

So in short... more shaft deflection decreases cueball deflection !!!!!



- Eddie Wheat
 
WheatCues said:
The laminated shafts are designed to flex more which allows the tip to stay on the cueball longer which increases the accuracy significantly !!!

So in short... more shaft deflection decreases cueball deflection !!!!!



- Eddie Wheat
Click to expand...
Laminated shafts do not flex more imo.
Low end-mass shafts DEFLECT OFF the cueball more that heavier end-mass shafts. So the cueball deflects less off the tip.
Lamination has nothing to do with deflection as much is they are made for stability.

THe LONGER that TIP STAYS on the cueball, the more it will cause cueball squirt or "catapult".
Simple physics.
The faster it DEFLECTS off the cueball, the less the cueball will deflect off it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DO5-v75Hmjg

I thought you had a lightweight ferrule and hollowed end on your own playing shaft.
 
Last edited:
JoeyInCali said:
Laminated shafts do not flex more imo.
Low end-mass shafts DEFLECT OFF the cueball more that heavier end-mass shafts. So the cueball deflects less off the tip.
Lamination has nothing to do with deflection as much is they are made for stability.

THe LONGER that TIP STAYS on the cueball, the more it will cause cueball squirt or "catapult".
Simple physics.
The faster it DEFLECTS off the cueball, the less the cueball will deflect off it.

I thought you had a lightweight ferrule and hollowed end on your own playing shaft.
Click to expand...


No I didn't go to the extreme with the hollowing aspect of it... I was playing the best pool of my life back in the early 90's without all that crap... so now I'm reverting back to it !!!

The tip staying on the cueball longer is shaft squirt this stops cueball squirt... it's either one or the other.. there is no compromise with the physics aspect of it !!!

It's kind of like the slingshot method... notice how long the taper is on laminated shafts !!!!





- Eddie Wheat
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top