soyale
Well-known member
interesting. So, with a score of 200-100 (or 20-10? 2-1?) if we assume both players are a 500 (and that 500 is average) one would go to 550 and the other 450?
Questions for Mike with FargoRate
- Thread starter Tin Man
- Start date
interesting. So, with a score of 200-100 (or 20-10? 2-1?) if we assume both players are a 500 (and that 500 is average) one would go to 550 and the other 450?
I think that would have to be the assumption until they start playing other players with ratings.
For individuals talking about themselves I think they start deducting from the denomonator. So they automatically strip out dry breaks, fouls on breaks, 15 ball rolling clusters, breaking and getting themselves hooked…..so someone saying they are typically 10-20% to get out is assuming an ok layout with a decent opening shot, which is in line with a Fargo-500 type performance.
I can't remember if it's this thread or another, where we were talking about the top finishers in a tournament over performing their fargorate by a good amount. Here is the just completed bigfoot bracket. If you go to the "performance tab" you can see that Filler (winner) was plus 35 points. LVC (second) was plus 58 points.
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Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
that’s pretty shitty I have 12 in 67 matches and I’m a 478. In 9 I have 8 in 57 matches. But with the qualifiers, regionals and Vegas your B&R’s dont go on the stats. Only the matches do. All you get are the “special” patches. I have at least 50 in 8 if you include those. And 20 in 9. I have a pile of those high level br patches. Those players you referenced are probably higher in b+rs also. First day playing minis in Vegas pic brlow…..I got 4 more patches the second mini I played also.
Another thing you need to consider is how they break. In 8 ball if players break wide open it’s usually easier to b+r than leaving all the balls in a 2ft box.. plus league stats are usually lower just do to the competitive level of play. The one 650 I know has 600 8 ball games in with only 400 B+Rs. That makes him not even 20% in league(he’s almost 90% win percentage, so breaks a lot). And a 630 has 20 in 8 in 100 matches
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They are not really rated against the rest of pool players because they have had no games in the wider world. Any guess is a guess. Some guesses are more likely than others.
I'd bet big money against 800 and 900. I'd also bet big money against -90 and 10, but for a different reason. In the first case, it is unlikely that someone at 900 speed has never competed in a major event. In the second, two isolated first-time players are unlikely to have any interest in getting into FargoRate.
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
Sorry only 7 patches first day in Vegas. These ones dont show on APA app. So like I said those bring me to 12 plus whatever else in qualifiers and regionals at a 478 fargorate….
soyale
Well-known member
is there a way for us to know what the overall average fargo rate is? and if so, is that what the system would go off of in this unique and strange situation?
Mike posted the number not long ago. If my memory was better I could tell you. I think it was around 450.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
According to the FAQs, 500 is close to the median of all players in the FargoRate system.
Any system similar to Fargo has to use an arbitrary number as a peg. It's the same whether there are two people or 200,000 people involved.
If it took them 300 games to pique their interest , yeah they weren't that interested.
A group of players--whether it is 2 or 200--who are fully isolated from the rest of the network is what we call an island. Islands are pretty rare and mostly are counterfactuals like the one we're talking about here. Even when a low-level league, perhaps a USAPL league, starts up in a remote area where Fargo Ratings are not so entrenched, there is usually at least SOME coupling. So if you start a league in a retirement community in Kalispel MT with 40 players, many brand new, it's going to be at a low level generally. But there is probably going to be one player who winters in Arizona and plays in a league there and another who has 30 games from play in Billings and another who played half a season and moved away to be near his kids in Minnesota. You've forgotten about him, but he is playing at a VFW in MN and that is adjusting the whole Kalispel community. We would then call that a weakly coupled group.
In general, the higher the level of play for a group, the more connected it will be. So you can bet that if we have a group from somewhere in Oregon that seems unconnected or weakly connected to the rest of the world, it's a low level of play. Identifying these islands is not so easy. They are [jargon alert] related to small and zero eigenvalues of the information matrix.
When people say what is the average rating of the whole group, it depends strongly on how we cull the group. Below is the 40,000 players who have play in the last two years and also have a total of between 100 and 300 games in the system. The average is around 430.
If we look at the average of players entered in a tournament we get a very different number
If we look at the average established rating, very different number
Average of players with 500+ games in the system, very different number
bpeacock
Well-known member
You have to be a stats nerd to appreciate the beauty of that curve
Sweet patches bruh.
Shame the only official answers you get from Fargo is when they are attempting to validate their math.You have to be a stats nerd to appreciate the beauty of that curve
I'm not usually in these discussions. What questions are they dodging?
"Only" 400 B&R's out of 600 games? And he's just a 650?
I'm not following. Maybe I didn't understand your post, certainly a possibility. The one player we have in our area that plays APA that is 648 doesn't B&R anywhere near that often. Not even close. 8-ball or 9-ball. We do play on 9' Diamonds, but still...
Hypothetical unicorn player...
He comes out of his Siberian pool training facility and he plays only two matches, both races to 100. He plays Fedor and he plays Filler. After these matches Fargo spits out a 730 rating.
Do we here think this player would be better or worse than the regional champ that plays only on bar tables?
I think he'd be better and possibly close to world class.
Yikes -- not another big table vs bar table argument.
He comes out of his Siberian pool training facility and he plays only two matches, both races to 100. He plays Fedor and he plays Filler. After these matches Fargo spits out a 730 rating.
Do we here think this player would be better or worse than the regional champ that plays only on bar tables?
I think he'd be better and possibly close to world class.
Yikes -- not another big table vs bar table argument.
No offence but the proof is literally riddled across this forum. Questions regarding anything fargo functionality are seemingly ignored, but within the very same threads Mike will chime in the moment a comment is made against the validity of his math.
I understand that not landing on your radar if you're not paying attention to those topics. However there is a very clear and consistent trend.
I will add I'm huge fan of fargo....