You may have struck on the pool movie that could get the general public in to watch it. People love true life movies of "naturals" ruining their lives via degeneration.
Ralph Greenleaf -- a rummy?
- Thread starter 9BallPaul
- Start date
Hal and Ralph were road partners (well, maybe Hal was more of a "handler"). No one alive has spent more time with Ralph than Hal. Ralph being a drunk isn't the end of the story unless you REALLY want it to be.
Robert Byrne's McGoorty has interesting stories about Ralph. McGoorty knew Ralph well. They were both alcoholics, though McGoorty later gave up the sauce and was sober the last 17 or so years of his life. McGoorty also testifies that Ralph could play beautifully when under the influence but not when he was falling down drunk.
In answer to the charge that Mosconi talked up Greenleaf's alcoholism to make himself look better - Ralph's drunkenness was frequently a problem at tournaments and exhibitions so it was well known among his contemporaries.
I had never read that Ralph did opium before Hal Houle's account. I suppose it's possible he did that too, but it's clear, to me at least, that his main and most destructive addiction was to alcohol.
In answer to the charge that Mosconi talked up Greenleaf's alcoholism to make himself look better - Ralph's drunkenness was frequently a problem at tournaments and exhibitions so it was well known among his contemporaries.
I had never read that Ralph did opium before Hal Houle's account. I suppose it's possible he did that too, but it's clear, to me at least, that his main and most destructive addiction was to alcohol.
9BallPaul
Banned
Thanks to all for the great responses to the OP. I've been training all day on the Greenleaf method -- Guinness and Jameson -- but it hasn't lifted my game to world-beater status. Not yet. My home table remains my nemesis, and the Ghost my bitter enemy.
Guess I'll keep training.... Yo, bartender!
Guess I'll keep training.... Yo, bartender!
I don't recall whether I read it in a Byrne's or John Grissim, but the story goes that Ralph Greenleaf was arrested for vagrancy, or being drunk. He came up in front of the judge, and the court didn't believe that he was Ralph Greenleaf until he drank some booze and demonstrated on a pool table.
McGoorty
I have the McGoorty book and it is a great read. I pick it up every year or so and read it again. He talks about running out to get booze for Greenleaf but there are a lot of interesting stories in the book!!!
I have the McGoorty book and it is a great read. I pick it up every year or so and read it again. He talks about running out to get booze for Greenleaf but there are a lot of interesting stories in the book!!!
Yuck, it must have been awful to clean up the table after that.
This is a really cool vid. Thanks for the link.
Every so often I read about players using a slip-stroke if I'm referring to it correctly.
Was Greenleaf's stroke considered one? The shot at 4.04 demonstrates what I'm talking about.
What are the claimed advantages of such a stroke?
To me it looks like more harm than good.
Alcoholism leads to many health issues. Portal hypertension, which is a result of cirrhosis of the liver, weakens the veins in the esophagus, known as esophageal varices. Ruptured esophageal varicesis is a life threatening emergency. It is better than wernickes syndrome, which is also caused by chronic malnutrition. Also known as wet brain syndrome. Make no mistake, alcoholism has some deadly consequences in addition to the wrecked lives around it. Drinking Alcohol is also known as ETOH or ethyl alcohol.
When he was drinking a lot he looked at the object ball in the middle last.
Someone help me out. Maybe it was the McGoorty book that has this story.
Ralph wanted a drink so a friend gets him a pint of booze. Ralph starts hammering it down and the friend says "Hey, you can drink the rest after the match (or exhibition)"
Ralph goes out and runs 125 like it was nothing, comes back to his friend and just drains the rest of the bottle.
Who cares if he drank. He is the one that paid the price. He was absolutely one of the greatest talents to ever pick up a cue. Didn't some old timers who saw both him and Mosconi play consider him the more talented player?
Ralph wanted a drink so a friend gets him a pint of booze. Ralph starts hammering it down and the friend says "Hey, you can drink the rest after the match (or exhibition)"
Ralph goes out and runs 125 like it was nothing, comes back to his friend and just drains the rest of the bottle.
Who cares if he drank. He is the one that paid the price. He was absolutely one of the greatest talents to ever pick up a cue. Didn't some old timers who saw both him and Mosconi play consider him the more talented player?
Yes that's a slip stroke. And a beautiful one at that.
9BallPaul
Banned
Good observation, pal. And he's one of many. But that's another thread.
I will only add this to the discussion. I am old enough to have known men who were contemporaries of Greenleaf - George Rood, Luther Lassiter, Don Willis, Earl Shriver, Irving Crane, Jimmy Caras, et al. To a man they had much more respect for the abilities of Greenleaf over Mosconi, for whatever reason. I'm not sure exactly why, but they felt Ralph was the more talented player. I think it had to do with "heart" and ability to perform under pressure.
Well, he certainly was more successful financially, than Mosconi. In the 1920's Greenleaf was being paid $2000 a week to perform exhibitions...way more than most Americans were making in an entire year. This was long before Hal Houle met him.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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I have spent some time with a few world class alcoholics . once you pass a certain point you shake like a Parkinson's patient during an earthquake if you accidentally wake up sober..
and the only thing that can calm the tremors is alcohol
To say one plays better drunk and to know it's the truth.. is also to know that one probably can't do ANYTHING sober anymore.. and the next stage is probably death..
imagine the skill possible if Greenleaf had never drank his first drink.. thats like imagining if Randy Moss had given his all on every single play...
that's the problem with talent... it makes it too easy to coast..and coasting only leads downhill..
and the only thing that can calm the tremors is alcohol
To say one plays better drunk and to know it's the truth.. is also to know that one probably can't do ANYTHING sober anymore.. and the next stage is probably death..
imagine the skill possible if Greenleaf had never drank his first drink.. thats like imagining if Randy Moss had given his all on every single play...
that's the problem with talent... it makes it too easy to coast..and coasting only leads downhill..
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Another story about Greenleaf, told to me by Jack White...Greenleaf was to perform an exhibition at a room in Pittsburgh. He had ridden the train into town, and walked 20 blocks to the poolroom...in the pouring rain. By the time he got there he was soaking wet. He took off his sopping wet coat, went into the bathroom to "freshen up" (take that to mean whatever you want)...walked out, picked a cue off the wall, and ran 125 and out on his opponent. He then put his wet coat back on, walked out into the rain, back to the train station, and disappeared out of town. Strange man, to say the least.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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I've heard the same from people who saw him play, and most of these saw him play when he was past his prime, but they all said there was just something special about Greenleaf.
I've always been amazed by the fact that after Greenleaf won the 1937 World Championships when he was already considered past his prime (at only 37 years of age) He played a challenge match with a young Irving Crane who came in a close 2nd in that tournament an not only did Greenleaf beat him but he crushed him by a score of 1500-550!!! Amazing. I don't think any top player of today can beat another top player by that score.
I once asked Johnny Ervolino, who thought Greenleaf was the greatest, how Mika Immonen would do against Greenleaf in a 1000 point match. He said if they played on a tight table Mika would never get 600 points.
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I think it was in "Billiards: Hustlers and Heroes, Legends and Lies, and the Search for Higher Truth on the Green Felt" by John Grissim. Had to do with the guy he was playing the exhibition against. He was the one who got Ralph the bottle. Ralph drank the whole pint and went out and ran 125 and out. Good story, typical of pool players.
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