Ralph Greenleaf -- a rummy?

Greenleaf made tons of money before the war. And yet he was found drunk and broke in an Atlantic City dive two weeks before his death. He died dead broke and was buried in a paupers grave with no headstone. I think some folks finally put up a tombstone some dozen years ago or so.
 
rayjay said:
His life would make a great movie, full of glamour, glitz and tragedy. Esophageal hemorrhaging is also very common due to frequent vomiting and dry heaves...don't know if that was the cause or not, probably everything together contributed.
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I've been saying this for years...has all the drama, excitement, pathos/tragedy, etc. for a great movie. Much better idea than just another hustler movie (it's been done to death, sometimes well, but mostly not). Really thinking out of the box, I'd pick Shia Labeouf or maybe Casey Affleck...both are better actors than they get credit for, both look a little like him and it could be an Oscar opportunity if done right!
 
West Point 1987 said:
I've been saying this for years...has all the drama, excitement, pathos/tragedy, etc. for a great movie. Much better idea than just another hustler movie (it's been done to death, sometimes well, but mostly not). Really thinking out of the box, I'd pick Shia Labeouf or maybe Casey Affleck...both are better actors than they get credit for, both look a little like him and it could be an Oscar opportunity if done right!
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People like stories with happy endings. Of course, Hollywood might just rewrite his life and have him beat the bottle and then beat an evil Mosconi in 1949.
 
Rich93 said:
People like stories with happy endings. Of course, Hollywood might just rewrite his life and have him beat the bottle and then beat an evil Mosconi in 1949.
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Ever see "Leaving Las Vegas"? No happy endings there, but plenty of Oscar nominations!
 
Great old school video and a great story. The guy had confidence , No fear, Drank and played like a pro what more is there. The guy was just enjoying life probably enjoying more of it than we do.

sit around and read forums ya!
 
BrokeHustler said:
Great old school video and a great story. The guy had confidence , No fear, Drank and played like a pro what more is there. The guy was just enjoying life probably enjoying more of it than we do.

sit around and read forums ya!
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Ralph was drinking to the point where he got very little enjoyment out of life or he wouldn't have been drinking like he was.
 
I think he was the one who said, when asked how to size up an unknown opponent, "I watch him shoot for an hour. If he misses, I know I'll win."
 
Taco said:
I think he was the one who said, when asked how to size up an unknown opponent, "I watch him shoot for an hour. If he misses, I know I'll win."
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I've heard that attributed to Luther Lassiter several times, so I don't know who came up with it originally.
 
What's a handler?

SpiderWebComm said:
Hal and Ralph were road partners (well, maybe Hal was more of a "handler"). No one alive has spent more time with Ralph than Hal. Ralph being a drunk isn't the end of the story unless you REALLY want it to be.
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Dave-

Can you provide more detail? Was Hal a manager of sorts? A backer? A press agent? A damage control PR man?

Take care

ps-saw that you sold your table. Best of luck in this newest chapter of your life. Check in as time permits.
 
IMO, Dave is exaggerating here a bit. I've also visited with Hal, and listened to his stories about Greenleaf. While he did spend some time with him, it was more towards the end of his career, and was mostly out of sympathy for Ralph's excesses...his skill at the table notwithstanding. Greenleaf's wife would contact Hal, after Ralph had gone MIA, and asked him to bring Greenleaf home. Hal would somehow find Ralph, often drunk in a flophouse, get him cleaned up and in new clothes, and take him home. Hal never once mentioned (despite being directly asked) being any kind of 'manager' or road partner with Greenleaf. Now, that said, I'm pretty sure Dave has spent more time with Hal than I have, and I could be wrong. All I know is what Hal told me. He is, after all, in his late 80's, and his memory isn't what it used to be.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

3RAILKICK said:
Dave-

Can you provide more detail? Was Hal a manager of sorts? A backer? A press agent? A damage control PR man?

Take care

ps-saw that you sold your table. Best of luck in this newest chapter of your life. Check in as time permits.
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Scott Lee said:
IMO, Dave is exaggerating here a bit. I've also visited with Hal, and listened to his stories about Greenleaf. While he did spend some time with him, it was more towards the end of his career, and was mostly out of sympathy for Ralph's excesses...his skill at the table notwithstanding. Greenleaf's wife would contact Hal, after Ralph had gone MIA, and asked him to bring Greenleaf home. Hal would somehow find Ralph, often drunk in a flophouse, get him cleaned up and in new clothes, and take him home. Hal never once mentioned (despite being directly asked) being any kind of 'manager' or road partner with Greenleaf. Now, that said, I'm pretty sure Dave has spent more time with Hal than I have, and I could be wrong. All I know is what Hal told me. He is, after all, in his late 80's, and his memory isn't what it used to be.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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He just told me that he went around the country with Greenleaf and his job, if you want to call it that, was to make sure Ralph got to whatever function he was supposed to appear at and try to make sure he was sober.
Hal said it was a tall order to find Ralph before he got so drunk he had to pull himself around the table on the rails. He pulled Ralph out of some of the damnedest places, he said. Never mentioned any official title or job description or that he even played with him in the exhibitions.
 
Scott Lee said:
IMO, Dave is exaggerating here a bit. I've also visited with Hal, and listened to his stories about Greenleaf. While he did spend some time with him, it was more towards the end of his career, and was mostly out of sympathy for Ralph's excesses...his skill at the table notwithstanding. Greenleaf's wife would contact Hal, after Ralph had gone MIA, and asked him to bring Greenleaf home. Hal would somehow find Ralph, often drunk in a flophouse, get him cleaned up and in new clothes, and take him home. Hal never once mentioned (despite being directly asked) being any kind of 'manager' or road partner with Greenleaf. Now, that said, I'm pretty sure Dave has spent more time with Hal than I have, and I could be wrong. All I know is what Hal told me. He is, after all, in his late 80's, and his memory isn't what it used to be.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Dave said "handler" not manager, so I don't see how you can say Dave is exaggerating.

Dave is only repeating what he has been told by Hal and from what I remember with Hal's conversations, Dave isn't exaggerating.

FTR, Hal Houle has spoken to me on several occasions and sometimes mentioned a SOLID time period of a couple of years that Hal Houle was around Ralph Greenleaf, IF MY MEMORY serves me correctly. That to me, along with the care-taking duties indicates a handler of sorts.

I wouldn't be surprised if the intelligent Hal Houle picked up some pool knowledge from Ralph Greenleaf over that period of time, however Hal indicated that Ralph was an "idiot savante" of sorts, a unique kind of a pool phenom who didn't go out of his way to share his knowledge with anyone.
 
I really don't think Hal had a "title" -- I really think "handler" is accurate. They traveled together so Ralph would make it to exhibitions. They also went around looking to gamble (14.1 action).

I've been to Hal's house countless times over the past 6 or so years and I've heard so many stories it's hard to remember them all. One story that stuck in my memory was a point in time where Ralph was going through an opium phase. They had a match setup for 7 or so in the evening and they got into town a little early. Ralph was practicing and Hal had to run some errands, so Hal paid a police officer to make sure he didn't lose sight of Ralph. Ralph had a knack of "MIAing" at the drop of a hat if he felt he needed to find the local "smoke house." As Hal would say, "Ya know... the place where all the Asians would congregate and smoke their stuff."

Scott's correct, Hal spent the majority of his time with Ralph towards the end of his career. That doesn't mean, however, that Hal wasn't intimately involved in every aspect of Ralph's life for a period of time (few years).

Hal first met Ralph when he was just a little boy. His father had taken him to see the great Ralph Greenleaf in a local bar / billiard parlor. Hal recalled that Ralph had started trouble with one of the locals early on -- almost before the exhibition had started --- saying something like, "If you're so good, maybe we should all pull up a chair and watch YOU play, eh?" So right away, there was tension in the air. After the exhibition, Hal's father took him by the shoulder and walked him up to Ralph hoping Ralph would play his son one quick game. I forget Ralph's response, but it equated to, "Maybe next time, kid." Definitely the cold-shoulder.

It's VERY ironic (to me at least) how the very same kid Ralph brushed off and shit on later became a crucial component to his well-being during a time when he couldn't keep it together himself. There's no doubt this first encounter with Ralph stuck with him for sometime because there was an "evening out" period when they started to spend a lot of time together. Hal had to overcome some internalized resentment while still wanting to go around with his childhood idol (this, paired with Ralph's egomania when they first met). Over time, however, I think a lot of that ego faded away (probably in proportion to his money fading away).

In the end, according to Hal, you had a tattered man afflicted with every addiction known to man-kind.... a "bum." It is what it is. It just so happens that the bum was a one-of-a-kind talent.

A good local friend of mine speaks of a time when Ralph used to play at a place in Lancaster, PA. Ralph would come in and basically BEG for a dollar. Eventually, someone would throw him a dollar and then Ralph would bet someone that he'd make a spot-shot and stop the CB on the dollar. I'm not sure of the rules of where the dollar could be; however, Ralph was a STONE-COLD favorite and almost never lost the dollar out of the gate. In fact, he would frequently parlay that dollar into a meal (and drinks) for the day.
 
You know, I almost hate to bring this up, what with all the admiring comments about pretty slip strokes and what not...

But did anyone else notice THE HUGE HONKING SIDEWAYS SWARP in Ralph's stroke?

Lou Figueroa
a hem
just thought I'd point
at the elephant
in the room
 
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