Reply to "DECEMBER: R-E-S-P-E-C-T"

JAM

JAM

I am the storm
Silver Member
Because they are *your* hand-picked Hall of Famers, the ones hand-picked by industry members and pool print media.

The pool print media and the BCA organization seem to only want to recognize who they want to recognize and are not cognizant of other legends in the pool world -- past and present -- as evidenced by their continuing habit of excluding some of pool's brightest shining stars, the ones who have put color in the pool world instead of cheesenips in the industry members' pockets.

In the end, when those top pool players do grow old and become the eldermen, those tin cups and titles aren't worth much, other than fond memories of days gone by.

The players themselves, most of them do respect and recognize the accomplishments of their peers. They do not have to show up at the BCA's event and pay to celebrate and express their admiration to their brethren.

Kevin Trudeau showed his respect to the BCA's Hall of Famers by paying each 30,000 bucks just to show up in Florida and compete in a tournament where each of them would receive three byes. Kevin Trudeau is today a pariah in the pool world, after having invested multi millions of dollars in pool.

Maybe if the BCA organization set an example for how they respect professional pool, the players would show up and pay tribute to their peers. Build it and they will come. What has the BCA done for professional pool lately?
 
bfdlad said:
I think this may be a good one. I am interested to know what people think.
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Billiards Digest publisher, Mike Panozzo, wrote a blog expressing his dismay at why more pool players did not show up to celebrate the recent BCA's Hall of Fame awardees held at the same time as the recent U.S. Open, next door to the conference center at the Marriott: December: R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
 
Jam, I could be wrong here but I believe that the HOF banquet and awards were not going to happen last year when Johnny and Allison got the HOF. I understand it was because the BCA were not going to put the $$ in for the event. MIke P and Billiards Digest stepped in and sponsored the event that year and maybe did again this year. Do you know anything about this?
 
bfdlad said:
Jam, I could be wrong here but I believe that the HOF banquet and awards were not going to happen last year when Johnny and Allison got the HOF. I understand it was because the BCA were not going to put the $$ in for the event. MIke P and Billiards Digest stepped in and sponsored the event that year and maybe did again this year. Do you know anything about this?
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I am unaware of who sponsored the event.

What I do know is that the BCA organization has been MIA in professional pool in recent times.

I'm sure Billiards Digest (BD) is feeling the heat of this economy, just like everybody else, so if BD did, in fact, sponsor the event, that was a good deed and deserves recognition.

Maybe we should have a Hall of Fame for pool industry members. Oh, wait. We already do. It's the BCA organization. :grin:
 
Hi JAM!

I'm not sure that they sponsored it but I do know that Mike P and BD, along with Barry B were instrumental in making sure it came off at the Open the last 2 years.

I was at the Johnny / Allison induction and it was terrific. I admire both players for their skills and their behavior in public and wanted to have a chance to applaud their efforts in that setting. There were some HOFers there; a few were playing the event. A few were there just to celebrate the induction and that made it very special for the inductees.

I skipped this past year's ceremony not because Django was inducted (he certainly deserves it!) but because they inducted the creators of APA leagues. This tells me that the BCA HOF is really an industry HOF, not a game HOF. I'm not saying there shouldn't be one, I'm saying they need to be separate entities or at least be treated separately. (Come on, Paul Newman? Great actor, sure, but not a HOF member in my book.) I realize they are inducted into the "meritorious service" area or what ever it's called but any HOF is about the players, first. And they should be, that's what the fans pay to see.

I think the player's end of the BCAHOF is extremely tough to get elected into and, while that's nice for those that make it, it means that far too many players aren't in who should be. (Parica and McReady are the first names that come to mind.)

Why don't the current members come to the induction? I'm guessing cost, plain and simple. How many former champs skip the US Open even though Barry pays the entry? Plenty, because the entry fee is probably the smallest piece of playing in it.

I imagine that the NFL and MLB pay for the inductees to come to the annual induction ceremony because they have money to burn. It would happen to this industry if there were money to burn. Unfortunately, many in pool that have money have been burned, instead. That's help drive away more money, too.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Brian in VA
 
I think Pro Players should send that old message to the BCA !

PLAY ME OR TRADE ME !
 
The C stands for congress, geeeesh !

Should pool be governed by a congress.

Seems a bad track record goes with the word !
 
JAM said:
Because they are *your* hand-picked Hall of Famers, the ones hand-picked by industry members and pool print media.

The pool print media and the BCA organization seem to only want to recognize who they want to recognize and are not cognizant of other legends in the pool world -- past and present -- as evidenced by their continuing habit of excluding some of pool's brightest shining stars, the ones who have put color in the pool world instead of cheesenips in the industry members' pockets.

In the end, when those top pool players do grow old and become the eldermen, those tin cups and titles aren't worth much, other than fond memories of days gone by.

The players themselves, most of them do respect and recognize the accomplishments of their peers. They do not have to show up at the BCA's event and pay to celebrate and express their admiration to their brethren.

Kevin Trudeau showed his respect to the BCA's Hall of Famers by paying each 30,000 bucks just to show up in Florida and compete in a tournament where each of them would receive three byes. Kevin Trudeau is today a pariah in the pool world, after having invested multi millions of dollars in pool.

Maybe if the BCA organization set an example for how they respect professional pool, the players would show up and pay tribute to their peers. Build it and they will come. What has the BCA done for professional pool lately?
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JAM, i don't think people in the know are dissing Trudeau for what he tried to do for pool. I believe it's more for the fact he was promising money that he didn't have (typical of a lot of promoters). Here's hoping now that Ivan is BCA chair that they will come to their senses about pro pool in the US.
 
Why is the BCA still in business? is their trade show still making enough money to pay all their bills? I guess it is.

From what I have read, recently in the pool mags and editorials, the BCA isn't but a fraction it was 10 years ago. Maybe it made too much money back then?

They cannot afford to hold their own BCA HOF dinner each year at their trade show. I assume they cannot afford flying in a dozen or so HOF'ers to sit next to the NEW inductee(s) and pay for a night at the hotel or maybe two at a cost of $10,000 plus the dinner arrangements. Of course I am guessing.

The fact that the HOF dinner has been at the US Open 9 Ball event the last two years, IMO, means that pool does not forget its BEST players.

There has to be room for the Best Players that kept the action going when there wasn't any major tournaments. And those same players also playing in those sparce tournaments and finishing at the top or at least in the top 8 time and time again. ( :grin:I was going to say finishing High in each event... )
 
JAM said:
Kevin Trudeau showed his respect to the BCA's Hall of Famers by paying each 30,000 bucks just to show up in Florida and compete in a tournament where each of them would receive three byes. Kevin Trudeau is today a pariah in the pool world, after having invested multi millions of dollars in pool.
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Kevin Trudeau tried to do something for Pool, Kevin Trudeau failed in the end in his effort, in defense of Kevin Trudeau who else put as much of their money in Pool as Kevin Trudeau?
 
JAM said:
Because they are *your* hand-picked Hall of Famers, the ones hand-picked by industry members and pool print media.

The pool print media and the BCA organization seem to only want to recognize who they want to recognize and are not cognizant of other legends in the pool world -- past and present -- as evidenced by their continuing habit of excluding some of pool's brightest shining stars, the ones who have put color in the pool world instead of cheesenips in the industry members' pockets.

In the end, when those top pool players do grow old and become the eldermen, those tin cups and titles aren't worth much, other than fond memories of days gone by.

The players themselves, most of them do respect and recognize the accomplishments of their peers. They do not have to show up at the BCA's event and pay to celebrate and express their admiration to their brethren.

Kevin Trudeau showed his respect to the BCA's Hall of Famers by paying each 30,000 bucks just to show up in Florida and compete in a tournament where each of them would receive three byes. Kevin Trudeau is today a pariah in the pool world, after having invested multi millions of dollars in pool.

Maybe if the BCA organization set an example for how they respect professional pool, the players would show up and pay tribute to their peers. Build it and they will come. What has the BCA done for professional pool lately?
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I agree. The BCA is nothing but an empty box. It does nothing for pool, pool players and especially the elder statesmen of our sport. All they care about is the BCA Trade Show which has turned into a joke in itself! I've asked them to save the postage and stop sending me exhibitors information each year because I refuse to be connected to the BCA in any way, but I still get the junk mail! This years selections to the BCA HOF was really the final straw for me. Nothing against the players who were inducted, but so many were passed over that came before them it's just ridiculous! And inducting Larry Hubbart and Terry Bell for the APA! Give me a break!
 
Big surprise, since the Paul Huebler days, its an agenda minded board of directors. I worked in office for two years and had enough. They are farmers that pick the apples but would never attend to the needs of the trees. Hell, I went two yrs ago before the board in Boulder CO to speak, almost NOBODY knew or even heard of Paul Huebler and they didn't even supply me with a podium for my speech. I could go on and on. Oh yeah, BD and P&B were board members at the time I worked for the
BCA and both mags were getting Full Page Color ads for the BCA All American Tour, that alone was half the budgeted amount for the tour ($46,000 was the annual budget). I suggested to cut the program dollars in half, guarantee the BCA room owners one thousand per event and all the room owners had to do was give proof of local advertising, guess what happened, Oh we can't give our members money. I wanted to create a ranking system to go along with the event. Don't get me started. Rob Johnson invited me to Boulder, he didn't show and no one thanked me for taking my time off and paying my way up and back. BCA translated in to real world terminology, Beware Corporate Agenda.
 
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1. I disagree with Mike Panozzo. It's not fair to chastise the players for not attending something that they have never been a part of up until the last two years. Until 2009 the Hall of Fame induction was carried out at the BCA trade show. And at the show most of the players who were in attendance at the show were present at the banquet. Now it's at the US Open and is an additional activity. Let's be real here, the majority of players at the US Open are there to play and try and win it. A lot of them are there on shoestring budgets as it is.

Don't lay down the guilt trip. Just hold your event and highlight the best parts and make it attractive.

2. I agree with Jenny about some of the best players being passed over. However it's worth remembering that this "Hall of Fame" is just a BCA thing. It's a construct with no one's rules but the BCA's. So although getting into the Hall of Fame is certainly an honor it's only a small cherry on a delicious cake. The great players who aren't in are not forgotten by us fans.

3. I think it's wrong to criticize the induction of Terry Bell and Larry Hubbard for the APA. Love the APA or hate it the APA has done more to bring NON-PLAYERS to the game than any other entity in pool. Only the Color of Money movie did more to encourage people to play. The APA thrives BECAUSE they constantly bring new players into the game. Everyone knows how tough it is to survive and even thrive in the billiard industry and Terry and Larry certainly built a league that does both. Say what you want but 250,000 people people who mostly can't run three balls putting money into pool each week is worthy of being honored with a service award.

4. The BCA as an organization has lost it's way and it's broke and broken. I spent some time speaking with a BCA board member last month and got some information not commonly known. Suffice it to say that while I am still not pro-BCA I actually feel a little sorry for the state of the BCA and the people involved with it now who are left holding the bag.

5. If you want pool to thrive then don't depend on the BCA - go out into your communities and promote it - start your own in-house league where you work - go to the Boys and Girls clubs and work with the kids - get on Facebook and Myspace and any other types of places where you can infuence people, write a blog - search engines LOVE blogs.

To conclude, the time is now for us to create our own rules, our own hall of fame, our own promotional efforts. The power of community is strong. But as my friend who is on the BCA board reminded me, when the call goes out for volunteers no one shows up.

Will we show up?
 
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Just as an FYI to those who claim that the BCA only inducts their favorites to the HOF, the BCA has had nothing to do with deciding who is nominated or elected for the past two years.

That has all been handled by the US Billiard Media Association. They handle picking players for nomination and voting on those players after nominations are done.

More info is available at http://www.usbma.com/

Mike
 
So yeah, then what the heck have they been doing since the decline of business since Color of Money play numbers increase during that period from 30 to 40 million players, and by the way, at the Boulder CO board meeting there was a tabled item about Paul Neumans passing. Now, for the industry to not go after this aspect of real life and relate it to our billiard world, and realize its effect on our game, they are only showing their true color$/and lack of knowlege.
Here's another; why is it the BCA, the most sound billiard organiztion not even trying to represent the billiard world. Why would BCA not represent our sport in some capacity for an honor you bestow on another (HOF).
 
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AzHousePro said:
Just as an FYI to those who claim that the BCA only inducts their favorites to the HOF, the BCA has had nothing to do with deciding who is nominated or elected for the past two years.

That has all been handled by the US Billiard Media Association. They handle picking players for nomination and voting on those players after nominations are done.

More info is available at http://www.usbma.com/

Mike
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Thanks for the info, Mike. :)

It seems every few years, the BCA changes the voting method for their HOF. One year, there's a committee. Next year, it's a teleconference phone vote. Now it's the USBMA.

One year, the BCA had a public poll for several candidates to be inducted into their HOF. In fact, this BCA poll was right here on AzBilliards Main Page, as well as some other pool-related websites. One player won the vote by a landslide. I mean, it wasn't even close.

He won a huge majority of the votes on that BCA public poll. He was not, however, chosen that year. To this day, I wonder why the BCA even had the poll. Of course, they haven't had one since, either. :grin-square:

Just out of curiosity, are any members of the USBMA also active participants and/or members of the BCA? :confused:
 
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TimKrazyMon said:
JAM, i don't think people in the know are dissing Trudeau for what he tried to do for pool. I believe it's more for the fact he was promising money that he didn't have (typical of a lot of promoters). Here's hoping now that Ivan is BCA chair that they will come to their senses about pro pool in the US.
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You make a very valid point.

However, today those who are heralded and worshiped in this pool world seem to be anybody who has a big bank account. It matters not whether they can run three balls in a row or if they have unsavory business practices or even how many women they can buy. If they got money in their pockets, they're worshiped and followed around like the Pied Piper.

It is amazing that their worshipers aren't joined to their hip like Koala bears when they're hitting 'em. They never leave home without 'em and can't shoot without them in the eyesight, either. Hail to the guy with the deep pockets. This is what pool has turned into today.

I won't even go into the ego clashes, exhibited quite often here on this forum. Some people today think -- no, not think -- demand that they get respect in the pool world, and when it doesn't happen, they spew some unpleasant words and try to verbally knock down those who don't worship them.

Love him or hate him, Kevin Trudeau did, in fact, try to make something positive happened. He did lose millions of dollars on this vision of his. If you were to speak to some of the players who attended a couple of his events, I am sure they would tell you it was the most plush pool tournament they had ever attended. They were actually treated like sports competitors.

Francisco Bustamante, the BCA's latest Hall of Famer, told me in December 2005 that his third-place win at the King of the Hill Shootout was the largest money payout he had ever won in his life. I think it was about $80,000 and some change. And that was third place.

Greg Sullivan is probably my all-time favorite pool industry member. He truly loves pool and each year gives the pool world the beloved Derby City Classic. Why ain't he in the BCA's Hall of Fame? It's only the biggest pool mecca each year! :)
 
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As far as I know, the only people who are part of both are Jerry and I who sit on the advisory board for the BCA points list.

Neither Ivan or Rob or Karim are members of the USBMA.

I am sure that some members of the USBMA are card carrying BCA members though. (AzBilliards being one of them)

Mike

JAM said:
Just out of curiosity, are any members of the USBMA also active participants and/or members of the BCA? :confused:
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