Ring games: When does a 2-way cross the line to be a safety?

[KoolKat9Lives]

Let's take this layout as an example (maybe it's a good example, maybe just so-so, but go with the concept please).

The player (call him a B player) should make an effort to make the 7, probably bank it cross-corner as the corner cut is a risky scratch.

So the player shoots as illustrated.

2 questions:

1) what rules govern this obvious cop-out?

2) where do you draw the line?


Any real life experiences to draw on would be appreciated.

CueTable Help

 

[BryanBpool]

Looks like an intentional safe to me. No effort was made to pocket the ball.

Id be jumping all over em.

Now if they play the bank and it comes up short going two rails to that postion, I would be ok with it.

Id ask that it be treated like a foul, and the upcoming player can pass the shot back.

 

[muttley76]

I actually cover this exact thing in the chapter entitled "beat the tar out of this jackass" in my new book.

 

[Big Perm]

Based on your cue table, that's is an intentional safe for anyone that has a decent game.....unless you have a bunch of D players banging balls around, but they don't usually get in high dollar ring games...

 

[poolhustler]

Unfortunately I can't see the Cue Tables here at work, but the bottom line is that the shooter MUST make a legitimate attempt to pocket the ball. If not, its time for a beating!!!

 

[LILJOHN30]

this is a intentional safe in my book,and the shooter should be called out.This happened last week in a ring game I was in and he heard it as soon as he hit the ball..lol The shooter said I'm not going to wail at a ball..and my reply was you can do better than that you just banked the ball into the rail and it stopped in the middle of the ****in table .shit you can't even hit the next ball:thumbup:

 

[MitchAlsup]

What rule set are you playing under?

The BCA and APA rule sets consider this a legal shot. Legal stroke was used, CB hits legal OB first, some ball hits a rail after CB-OB contact, no other foul comitted--thats all of the requirements.

But question: Take the same cue-ball trajectory and landing spot, but have the 7-ball bounce off the side rail just above the second diamond and travel straight towards the opposite corner pocket--comming to rest with the 8-ball hiding the 7-ball?

Here, there was simply not enough energy put into the OB, something hit a rail after CB and OB contact, OB was on a usefully good path towards a pocket, so the shot is legal. Right?

 

[BryanBpool]

What rule set are you playing under?

The BCA and APA rule sets consider this a legal shot. Legal stroke was used, CB hits legal OB first, some ball hits a rail after CB-OB contact, no other foul comitted--thats all of the requirements.

But question: Take the same cue-ball trajectory and landing spot, but have the 7-ball bounce off the side rail just above the second diamond and travel straight towards the opposite corner pocket--comming to rest with the 8-ball hiding the 7-ball?

Here, there was simply not enough energy put into the OB, something hit a rail after CB and OB contact, OB was on a usefully good path towards a pocket, so the shot is legal. Right?

We are discussing this shot under the context of a Ring Game.

No intentional safe shots allowed.

You have to try to run out no matter what.

 

[Sam Waltz]

High noon!

Sounds like this boy needed to be sent over to the "hangin' judge" and strung up like the dog he is...kill 'em all and let the pool gods sort 'em out IMO!

 

[joeboxer]

That was definately an intentional safety shot.
But in ring games, couldnt the incoming player give the shot back to the shooter?
I thought thats why that rule was in place, for situations like this.

 

[the420trooper]

That was definately an intentional safety shot.
But in ring games, couldnt the incoming player give the shot back to the shooter?
I thought thats why that rule was in place, for situations like this.

Shooter can only pass the shot back if the previous shot was a foul. This is a legal shot in every situation EXCEPT a ring game.



Matt, this guy definitely tried to play you for a fool..

He didn't hit the ball hard enough to get to the pocket, and missed the "bank" by 3 diamonds???? While conveniently putting whitey on the bottom rail, with no shape on the next ball?

I might have picked the offending 7 ball off the table, and beat him viciously about the head and shoulders..JMO.

 

[joeboxer]

Shooter can only pass the shot back if the previous shot was a foul. This is a legal shot in every situation EXCEPT a ring game.



Matt, this guy definitely tried to play you for a fool..

He didn't hit the ball hard enough to get to the pocket, and missed the "bank" by 3 diamonds???? While conveniently putting whitey on the bottom rail, with no shape on the next ball?

I might have picked the offending 7 ball off the table, and beat him viciously about the head and shoulders..JMO.

If thats the case, then i agree......beat him viciously......

Did he have a friend in the game who was shooting after you??

 

[jcrack_corn]

what thread are you replying to, because the OP clearly stated this is a ring game.

safties are not allowed (intentional). You must try to pocket a ball every shot.

What rule set are you playing under?

The BCA and APA rule sets consider this a legal shot. Legal stroke was used, CB hits legal OB first, some ball hits a rail after CB-OB contact, no other foul comitted--thats all of the requirements.

But question: Take the same cue-ball trajectory and landing spot, but have the 7-ball bounce off the side rail just above the second diamond and travel straight towards the opposite corner pocket--comming to rest with the 8-ball hiding the 7-ball?

Here, there was simply not enough energy put into the OB, something hit a rail after CB and OB contact, OB was on a usefully good path towards a pocket, so the shot is legal. Right?

 

[ShootingArts]

tell him it is all his

Neither the path or the final position of the balls indicates a good faith effort at offense. I'd give it back to him and tell him that a repeat would find him kicked out of the ring game. He could have done much the same by banking the seven a little short of the pocket and shooting a little harder. Hit within six inches or less of the pocket and it can be argued it was a bad bank. Nobody can seriously contend this was a good faith effort by any half decent player.

There is always the bounce test . . .

Hu

Let's take this layout as an example (maybe it's a good example, maybe just so-so, but go with the concept please).

The player (call him a B player) should make an effort to make the 7, probably bank it cross-corner as the corner cut is a risky scratch.

So the player shoots as illustrated.

2 questions:

1) what rules govern this obvious cop-out?

2) where do you draw the line?


Any real life experiences to draw on would be appreciated.

CueTable Help

 

[Drew]

So now I have to ask...why on Earth would you even want to play safe in a ring game unless you're working a fish? In a fair ring game, there's no reason to play safe because you aren't rewarded for it, the next player is. Why would you want to help another player get out of the rack?

 

[Majic]

Let's take this layout as an example (maybe it's a good example, maybe just so-so, but go with the concept please).

The player (call him a B player) should make an effort to make the 7, probably bank it cross-corner as the corner cut is a risky scratch.

So the player shoots as illustrated.

2 questions:

1) what rules govern this obvious cop-out?

2) where do you draw the line?


Any real life experiences to draw on would be appreciated.

CueTable Help

Of course its an intentional safety. He should get the shot back. Is it a patrners ring game?

 

[Pushout]

What rule set are you playing under?

The BCA and APA rule sets consider this a legal shot. Legal stroke was used, CB hits legal OB first, some ball hits a rail after CB-OB contact, no other foul comitted--thats all of the requirements.

But question: Take the same cue-ball trajectory and landing spot, but have the 7-ball bounce off the side rail just above the second diamond and travel straight towards the opposite corner pocket--comming to rest with the 8-ball hiding the 7-ball?

Here, there was simply not enough energy put into the OB, something hit a rail after CB and OB contact, OB was on a usefully good path towards a pocket, so the shot is legal. Right?

Heh, ring game, league rules do not apply.

 

[Pushout]

So now I have to ask...why on Earth would you even want to play safe in a ring game unless you're working a fish?

Somehow, some people think that if they can stick the guy following them, they'll get another shot to get out. I've seen this a lot back in the day, not with the rule allowing the incoming player to pass the shot back to the original shooter. Back then, there was no such rule. I used to refuse to play in a ring with people who were known for this kind of play.

 

[Johnnyt]

It simply amazes me how people can let scumbags like this get away with air-barreling, playing safe in ring games time after time after time. The lawyers have most everyone scared to lay a hand on anyone no matter what they have done to them. This is the reason they do it, because no one does anything to them for doing it. Wait for them outside the room, or by their car. Wear a hood or get some bikers to do it for you for a price. Make sure bones are broken and he does some painful hospital time to think why he ended up there. He will think long and hard before he pulls what he did again.

I'm a little old guy, but you can ask anyone that knows me in NY or FL that no one that knows me would even think to pull that kind of s*** on me. I'm not trying to be a tough guy here, but bones would be broken one way or another. It's like honor among thieves, you just don't screw one of your own kind. It use to be that way in pool where I came from. Now the ones that get screwed make it sound like it's part of gambling and pool. IT IS NOT. Johnnyt

 

[poolhustler]

Unfortunately I can't see the Cue Tables here at work, but the bottom line is that the shooter MUST make a legitimate attempt to pocket the ball. If not, its time for a beating!!!

WOW......I wasn'st expecting that lame of a shot!!! Definately a safe.