RIP Jointed Cue

[RiverCity]

Here is an article: WANT TO AVOID AN ADA LAWSUIT BY SCOTT JOHNSON?

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/want-avoid-ada-lawsuit-scott-johnson-catherine-corfee

You can take pro-active measures to start complying with the ADA and the California disabled access codes. There is no grandfather clause/protection. The ADA provides that every business must remove barriers to the disabled that are easy to do without much difficulty or expense. There are some historical exceptions, and others too, however, the judges are reluctant to enforce them.

You cannot control what other people do. There are going to be assholes who are litigation happy, who work the system, who make you hate them.

But as I have mentioned however many times I have had to in this thread, had the owners of any of these businesses been in compliance with the LAW, they might still be in business.

Is the guy a asshole who is probably doing these lawsuits solely for profit? Damn sure looks that way. Is it his fault the owners were not in compliance? Nope.

Im done trying to make anyone understand who cannot. Have fun! :thumbup:

 

[Keith E.]

Does an existing building that met code at the time it was constructed have to be constantly modified to meet new codes if there wasn't a change-of-use involved?

Keith

 

[GoldCrown]

I'd like to get some more details on this lawsuit and what's involved. Thanks

I found it. This guy is a scam artist and needs to be shut down in court. Someone needs to fight him in court and bring to the court's attention all the claims he has made and the settlements (that's his real business!) that he asks for. He doesn't want to go to trial, trust me on that. He wants to settle - EVERY TIME IF POSSIBLE!

Know as a Professional. His attorney should be closed up.

 

[Icon of Sin]

\.............

 

[Icon of Sin]

Know as a Professional. His attorney should be closed up.

From one article I read, I think he is the attorney...

 

[jasonlaus]

While Chuck is right, the law needs to be changed to allow time to fix a compliance issue instead of starting with $4k fines each time this person documents a visit and then files a suit after 5 or more visits(20k or more plus legal fees). This guy wouldnt give a s#*% anymore about these things once the $$$$$$$ dried up.

The one lawsuit was because they didnt have a guard to protect them from burning their legs under the sink - the place didnt even have hot water. It's all a scam and need to be fixed.
Jason

 

[Ralph Kramden]

I understand your point, but you're way off base here. The guy in question sued my friends business over ADA compliance because the sink in the bathroom was 3/4" too tall. Google him. I know you didn't, or you wouldn't be talking like this. He has a team of people who search for businesses out of compliance and run in with tape measures and cameras then run out. He's caused hundreds of small mom and pop businesses to close their doors. He is truly a piece of shit that abuses the system. Look it up.

Does an existing building that met code at the time it was constructed have to be constantly modified to meet new codes if there wasn't a change-of-use involved?

Keith

Grandfather Act... I would check into that possibility. Maybe a letter of intent to local Code Inforcement.

.

 

[chefjeff]

While Chuck is right, the law needs to be changed to allow time to fix a compliance issue instead of starting with $4k fines each time this person documents a visit and then files a suit after 5 or more visits(20k or more plus legal fees). This guy wouldnt give a s#*% anymore about these things once the $$$$$$$ dried up.

The one lawsuit was because they didnt have a guard to protect them from burning their legs under the sink - the place didnt even have hot water. It's all a scam and need to be fixed.
Jason

Actually, Chuck is wrong. It is the duty of all American citizens to defy any unlawful piece of legislation. Compliance to all "laws" is not what we the people are to do re the govt's dictates.

This is America, not Russia.

Since there are no victims of the pool hall's actions, why should they suffer?

I have a friend who's been in a wheelchair for 50 years. He hates the ADA and knows they're full of only one thing: more power!


Jeff Livingston

 

[lfigueroa]

From Facebook:

"It is with true sadness that I have to share this post.

Due to a lawsuit filed by Scott Johnson and the repairs that need to take place according to ADA regulations, the Jointed Cue has to shut its doors. I understand the emotional connection everyone has with this historical pool hall that started 50 years ago by Terry Stonier and I want to thank everyone in the pool community for the love and loyalty you have all showed over the last half century but the financial obligations to this lawsuit have forced the closure. Please do not lose all faith as there may be a possible solution to keep the room open. However this will take some time to work itself out and it is still only a possibility at this time. I appreciate the love and I will keep everyone in the loop. Cross your fingers

Thank you all
Mike"

If you google "Scott Johnson ADA" you'll find out how big of a POS this guy is.

Very sad news.

I played at the JC for a few years in the early 80's. Terry Stonier was a gracious host and his Father's Day tournament was legendary. Here's an old thread with some shots taken in the back room. You'll recognize a few of the suspects:

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=54986

Lou Figueroa

 

[poolhustler]

OK, let me say it this way and see if this one rings a bell.

As a business owner (especially one whose business is open to the public), you have a plethora of laws/requirements that have to be followed to protect yourself from facing legal consequences. There are tax laws that have to be complied with (from city to state to federal). There are food safety laws. There are ADA compliance laws. There are liquor laws. There are employment laws. If you live somewhere with state gambling/lottery machines, there are laws on those you have to follow. On and on and on. The laws are there.

It is the responsibility of the business owner to not only keep apprised of those laws, but to follow them. Failure to do so, can result in legal consequences.

With me so far?

The businesses being discussed were not in compliance. Maybe they thought they wouldn't get caught, maybe they failed to educate themselves about what needed to be done. Maybe they thought they could plead ignorance if it ever comes up. I dont know. But by not being in compliance with the laws they are expected to follow, they opened themselves up to those pesky legal consequences that I spoke of earlier.

Blaming a litigation happy asshole does not change the fact that the business owner was the one in the wrong. The business owners created their own demise by not following the laws on the books.

You can hate on the guy for being an asshole, you can hate on him for abusing the legal system, you can hate on the motherfugger for breathing the same oxygen as you do. I dont care. Makes no difference.

If you want to hate on anybody for the businesses closing though, direct it on the people who caused the business to close. You know, the ones who didnt follow the laws in the first place.

I get all that and understand completely.... My point is … 1. This guy is a low life scam artist who should not be allowed to operate like this. 2. There needs to be a better system in place that allows a business to get in compliance with all rules and regulation WITHOUT being driven out of business.

I am in no way minimizing the responsibility of the business owner, but there has to be a better way.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Yes it is typical.

The guy who calls someone out on something is the POS, while the person we like who owns the pool hall, who is breaking the law, is fine.

The lawsuit guy could very well be the most colossal asshole on the planet, driven by greed, willing to screw over his own mother for personal gain. A real scum bag asshole.

But that doesn't change the fact that the pool hall was not in compliance with the law. If you choose to operate a business, you comply with the laws on the books whether you agree with them or not, or you face the possibility of getting caught somewhere down the line. He got caught.

But lets forget all about the personal legal responsibility of the business owner and put the blame where it feels better for us.

Yes, it is VERY typical of todays world.

I am sure someone is thinking, "just fix the problems and move on". It can be a huge can of worms. You can lose your grandfathered status in other areas and before you know it, you are rebuilding the whole place. I had a tree knock down some wires on one of my buildings.

The power co came out and said they could not re-hook up because the drop was not up to todays code. No big deal I got an electrician out to fix it. One thing led to another, more permits, more inspections. $12,000 later the power was back on. I wish I had just cut that tree in the first place.

Most any building be it a business or your own house is in multiple violations right now I guarantee it. I forgot to mention, with the wire thing I got written up on at least a dozen other violations. From the numbers on the building not properly place and the wrong size (Who even knew there was a rule) to having building materials illegally stored on the property. There were some bricks stacked behind the building.

With the Jointed Cue pool room, I am certain he has run into the same thing beyond the ADA stuff now that he is being looked at more closely. You don't want any building inspector or code guy on your property if you can help. You also don't want to make an enemy of one of those guys, they can make your life a nightmare.

 

[Z-Nole]

Interesting discussion on the ADA...but either way I hate to see that place close. It looks like an awesome pool hall.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Yes it is typical.

The guy who calls someone out on something is the POS, while the person we like who owns the pool hall, who is breaking the law, is fine.

The lawsuit guy could very well be the most colossal asshole on the planet, driven by greed, willing to screw over his own mother for personal gain. A real scum bag asshole.

But that doesn't change the fact that the pool hall was not in compliance with the law. If you choose to operate a business, you comply with the laws on the books whether you agree with them or not, or you face the possibility of getting caught somewhere down the line. He got caught.

But lets forget all about the personal legal responsibility of the business owner and put the blame where it feels better for us.

Yes, it is VERY typical of todays world.

When they pass stuff like that there are provisions in the law for existing businesses.
To not put an un fair burden on the businesses there is almost always a grace period for the improvements to be done. Usually years.

The owner of the pool room I am sure has had many years to come into compliance and choose to do nothing. Now it is being dropped on him all at once. Regardless how it happened he has only himself to blame.

Spreading the costs over time (Years), would had not made them a problem at all. The cost is early absorbed. He made a very bad business decision way back not coming up to code and is now paying for it.

 

[Black-Balled]

The cost is early absorbed. He made a very bad business decision way back not coming up to code and is now paying for it.

That is ignorant, unless you have an idea of the $ in and out of the place, as well as the actual violations.

 

[CuesRus1973]

Yes it is typical.

The guy who calls someone out on something is the POS, while the person we like who owns the pool hall, who is breaking the law, is fine.

The lawsuit guy could very well be the most colossal asshole on the planet, driven by greed, willing to screw over his own mother for personal gain. A real scum bag asshole.

But that doesn't change the fact that the pool hall was not in compliance with the law. If you choose to operate a business, you comply with the laws on the books whether you agree with them or not, or you face the possibility of getting caught somewhere down the line. He got caught.

But lets forget all about the personal legal responsibility of the business owner and put the blame where it feels better for us.

Yes, it is VERY typical of todays world.

Your reply is typical. Ever hear of "grandfather clause"? The place has been in busines for 50 years long before the law was written and put into effect. Also, if you had googled as the op suggested, you would have seen 2 things:
1. Scott Johnson is a "serial filer". He has filed over 2000 lawsuits.
2. The place has a history of pool players in wheel chairs. Obviously they have been accommodating.


Scott Johnson is just a douche.

 

[Runner]

I understand your point, but you're way off base here. The guy in question sued my friends business over ADA compliance because the sink in the bathroom was 3/4" too tall. Google him. I know you didn't, or you wouldn't be talking like this. He has a team of people who search for businesses out of compliance and run in with tape measures and cameras then run out. He's caused hundreds of small mom and pop businesses to close their doors. He is truly a piece of shit that abuses the system. Look it up.

Yeah, they're called Nuisance Lawsuits. There are predatory POS's whose income is derived from filing bullsh*t lawsuits to get quick settlements. A buddy of mine runs an old school electronics shop, one day a guy in a van shows up and says he's handicapped, and there wasn't a designated handicap parking spot... long story short, this guy and his lawyer use satellite imagery to look for these spots that are out of complaince, then sue for quick settlements. May they burn in hell.

 

[one stroke]

I did look him up. The businesses were not in compliance. They have a legal obligation to do so, if not they are open to legal consequences as happened in this situation and the others.

Him being a piece of shit or not does not change that. Using people to take measurements and pictures does not change that. Him doing things you dont like does not change that.

The guys motivation (greed, being an asshole, or whatever) for doing so is not important. People are going to do what people are going to do. The room owner was in error by not ensuring his business was in compliance.

Blame is being shifted from the person who made the mistake to the person who called them on it. It might seem trivial in your mind, ADA requirements might seem unimportant to you. I dont know. But the facts of the matter are that the business was not in compliance, no matter who called them out on it or for whatever reason.

Rallying around the idea of the whistleblower being an asshole, or having a history of making legal complaints for monetary gain etc etc etc does not change the fact that the business was not in compliance.

I'm sorry Dudley Doright but there are plenty of places where ADA laws would never be challenged unless a land shark piece of shit calls them out because a handicap person wouldn't be going into the place for establishment in the first place ,, clearly the case here so sorry the pile on is warranted

1

 

[KeithS66]

OK, let me say it this way and see if this one rings a bell.

As a business owner (especially one whose business is open to the public), you have a plethora of laws/requirements that have to be followed to protect yourself from facing legal consequences. There are tax laws that have to be complied with (from city to state to federal). There are food safety laws. There are ADA compliance laws. There are liquor laws. There are employment laws. If you live somewhere with state gambling/lottery machines, there are laws on those you have to follow. On and on and on. The laws are there.

It is the responsibility of the business owner to not only keep apprised of those laws, but to follow them. Failure to do so, can result in legal consequences.

With me so far?

The businesses being discussed were not in compliance. Maybe they thought they wouldn't get caught, maybe they failed to educate themselves about what needed to be done. Maybe they thought they could plead ignorance if it ever comes up. I dont know. But by not being in compliance with the laws they are expected to follow, they opened themselves up to those pesky legal consequences that I spoke of earlier.

Blaming a litigation happy asshole does not change the fact that the business owner was the one in the wrong. The business owners created their own demise by not following the laws on the books.

You can hate on the guy for being an asshole, you can hate on him for abusing the legal system, you can hate on the motherfugger for breathing the same oxygen as you do. I dont care. Makes no difference.

If you want to hate on anybody for the businesses closing though, direct it on the people who caused the business to close. You know, the ones who didnt follow the laws in the first place.

In concept I agree completely, except for the Peter Carter lawsuit where he tricked a normally non public business which does have ADA compliance issues into selling him a product to "help a guy out" and then hit him with no handicap parking, counter height and door handle issues. Because the guy sold something to a non-commercial partner (i.e. the public) the lawsuit was allowed to proceed (I wasn't able to see the actual outcome), but the builder owner where the business his housed, uses both a cane and a scooter was backing the tenant. Also there have been allegations that led to investigations into his paying taxes on his settlements and issues where he has tried to change language on settlement agreements to indicate he was physically harmed when there were no such originally allegations (a way to avoid paying taxes on settlements).
So while I agree that businesses in violation need to bring things into compliance or risk the results and in that case there is no one to blame but themselves, this type of behavior does resolve this guy from criticism of his methods, even if in some cases he was correct and above board and may have helped some people in the long run, he defeats the overall purpose by engaging in practices like was subscribed above even if it's only a small part of his overall litigation total.

 

[terryhanna]

News story about this https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/08/01/scott-johnson-ada-lwsuit-jointed-cue/

 

[wahcheck]

damn shame

I agree it's a shame. I don't know much about ADA law, but I have heard of many businesses shut down because they were "not in compliance", and couldn't afford the "compliance". I have also heard that the ADA law is very powerful. I agree the system needs changing. I hate it when some people profit from other people's misery.