Rodney announces Bonus Ball's return on FB

(((Satori))) said:
CJ,

Are you saying the networks don't pay the sports organizations for exclusive rights? They don't compete and pay big$'s for sports programming so that they can make their $'s from subscription rates and advertising?

I know the major sports organizations are charging the networks premium prices for the exclusive rights to air their events. Nfl charges billions and the next nba deal is expected to be billions also.baseball hockey even soccer all charge mega $'s. From what I understand even the poker programs are bringing in the $'s. beach volleyball, darts they are all paid to be on TV and between the TV money and corporate sponsors, that is why a professional dart player makes more than a professional pool player.

I read an article the other day about how little league baseball players who make it to ESPN should be getting paid to play on TV. The author gave out exact figures for what the "non profit" organization brings in and the numbers from the TV deal with ESPN and the corporate sponsors would allow the organization to pay for a college scholorship or trust fund for every player on every team who made it on ESPN and the league still would not spend one tenth of the revenue generated from the post season series. ESPN alone paid millions to be able to exusivy air a certain number of games.

To me it seems like if bonusball had a sufficient leader managing the organization then a TV deal could be made that would more than generate enough revenue to sustain the operational costs and make plenty of profit. This does not even include the sponsorship $'s. if they were able to get bonusball on the board in Vegas then forget about it, the TV deal would be worth megabucks. The game is structured perfectly for that also.

Am I wrong in my thinking? I think you have experience in this field right? Please explain your thinking so that I understand better.

Thanks.
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I do not mean to answer for CJ, but you are confusing major sports like college football or baseball or basketball with pool. Two entirely different animals. TV will pay for major sports, but not for second and third-tier stuff like pool. ESPN (or anyone else in the USA) has not paid for a second of pool in the last twenty years. They get it for free if they air it and then they air it opposite Monday Night Football or NASCAR.

Pool is filler material for sports networks. That is why you do not see great matches like the Mosconi Cup or the World Cup of Pool on American TV. Because they refuse to pay the price of that material when they can get all the pool they want for free from other sources.

I keep hearing that new sports networks will pay for pool programming. But I have been hearing that for a long time with no results. The new NBC Sports network is on-air and was planned for many years without ever contacting anyone in the world of pool concerning programming.

At the moment pool producers not only have to give the content to the networks, they also have to pay the production costs, usually up around $50-60,000. So not only do they not get paid for their content, they have to pay to get it aired. So ask yourself this: If the networks can get pool for free why would they suddenly decide to pay for it?
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
I do not mean to answer for CJ, but you are confusing major sports like college football or baseball or basketball with pool. Two entirely different animals. TV will pay for major sports, but not for second and third-tier stuff like pool. ESPN (or anyone else in the USA) has not paid for a second of pool in the last twenty years. They get it for free if they air it and then they air it opposite Monday Night Football or NASCAR.

Pool is filler material for sports networks. That is why you do not see great matches like the Mosconi Cup or the World Cup of Pool on American TV. Because they refuse to pay the price of that material when they can get all the pool they want for free from other sources.

I keep hearing that new sports networks will pay for pool programming. But I have been hearing that for a long time with no results. The new NBC Sports network is on-air and was planned for many years without ever contacting anyone in the world of pool concerning programming.

At the moment pool producers not only have to give the content to the networks, they also have to pay the production costs, usually up around $50-60,000. So not only do they not get paid for their content, they have to pay to get it aired. So ask yourself this: If the networks can get pool for free why would they suddenly decide to pay for it?
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That is one side of the equation I had not realized. Thanks for that! :)
 
It was not a tour. And that question's answer may be lost to time. The first free tourney that I knew about was the Richie Florence events in Lake Tahoe, but I have been told he was not the first to do so. The last ones to get paid were I believe the ones that were aired on Wide World of Sports, but again that could be erroneous as I do not have access to confidential contracts from back then.

The WPBA was on ESPN for a dozen years or more and never got paid a penny and always had to pay their own production costs. The PBT did not get paid for their events on any of the networks they were on and that includes ESPN, FOX and (I believe) TNT. ESPN has now relegated the ladies to ESPN 3, the computer streaming channel, so they no longer want it for broadcast TV even if it is free.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
I do not mean to answer for CJ, but you are confusing major sports like college football or baseball or basketball with pool. Two entirely different animals. TV will pay for major sports, but not for second and third-tier stuff like pool. ESPN (or anyone else in the USA) has not paid for a second of pool in the last twenty years. They get it for free if they air it and then they air it opposite Monday Night Football or NASCAR.

Pool is filler material for sports networks. That is why you do not see great matches like the Mosconi Cup or the World Cup of Pool on American TV. Because they refuse to pay the price of that material when they can get all the pool they want for free from other sources.

I keep hearing that new sports networks will pay for pool programming. But I have been hearing that for a long time with no results. The new NBC Sports network is on-air and was planned for many years without ever contacting anyone in the world of pool concerning programming.

At the moment pool producers not only have to give the content to the networks, they also have to pay the production costs, usually up around $50-60,000. So not only do they not get paid for their content, they have to pay to get it aired. So ask yourself this: If the networks can get pool for free why would they suddenly decide to pay for it?
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In my honest opinion bonusball is better for the networks and that is why they could be persuaded to buy it in my opinion. For one it is a seasonal team sport that offers more excitement for the casual fan to follow and get into. Plus it is a challenging game that I think most hard core players would like if they gave it a shot. And the structure is perfect for sports gambling. The game is easy to handicap and offers plenty of prop bets to keep the sports betters active all the way through.

If ESPN won't pay then go to another network. It doesn't even have to be a 24 hr sports network. Other small sports are getting paid, hell, honey boo boo is getting paid, why not pool? It makes me wonder who started giving it away in the first place.
 
Regarding T.V. rights fees, lets compare pool with something in the same stratosphere, not the NFL.

The PBA,(bowling) just recently signed a new T.V. deal. Their deal provides them with no rights fees, but for the first time since the mid-90s the deal will actually pay for their production costs. For the last 15 years, they have been paying it out of pocket and just struggling to stay afloat. But, they did it. Maybe in another 10 years they will get paid rights fees and a better time slot.(They currently air opposite the NFL.)

But remember, they got this deal while having a single organization working towards it. Financial backing from their couple moderately wealthy owners and near continuous presence on TV. And they almost went bankrupt every year along the way. Anyone who thinks its as easy as someone just asking ESPN for some rights fees, doesn't get it. It will take serious financial backing, plus big time industry support, in an industry filled with small time companies. Plus, you still got to draw a rating once you get on air. It might happen as a one off once and a while, but full seasons? I don't think anyone active in the industry, has that kind of bankroll, or is that mad at their money.
 
Cashman said:
Regarding T.V. rights fees, lets compare pool with something in the same stratosphere, not the NFL.

The PBA,(bowling) just recently signed a new T.V. deal. Their deal provides them with no rights fees, but for the first time since the mid-90s the deal will actually pay for their production costs. For the last 15 years, they have been paying it out of pocket and just struggling to stay afloat. But, they did it. Maybe in another 10 years they will get paid rights fees and a better time slot.(They currently air opposite the NFL.)

But remember, they got this deal while having a single organization working towards it. Financial backing from their couple moderately wealthy owners and near continuous presence on TV. And they almost went bankrupt every year along the way. Anyone who thinks its as easy as someone just asking ESPN for some rights fees, doesn't get it. It will take serious financial backing, plus big time industry support, in an industry filled with small time companies. Plus, you still got to draw a rating once you get on air. It might happen as a one off once and a while, but full seasons? I don't think anyone active in the industry, has that kind of bankroll, or is that mad at their money.
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Those are some good points. I often wondered how promoters like Matt Braun, who produces a few pool events a year, does it financially, but he keeps coming back. :smile:

Another thing about bowling is that they actually have a pro tour, unlike pool. :frown:

I agree that comparing pool industry with bowing is a better analogy.
 
JAM said:
Those are some good points. I often wondered how promoters like Matt Braun, who produces a few pool events a year, does it financially, but he keeps coming back. :smile:

Another thing about bowling is that they actually have a pro tour, unlike pool. :frown:

I agree that comparing pool industry with bowing is a better analogy.
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Why compare pool to another small sport that's not getting paid though when there are other small sports that are?
 
(((Satori))) said:
Why compare pool to another small sport that's not getting paid though when there are other small sports that are?
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I just think it is a better analogy than when folks compare pool to golf or NBA or MLB or tennis or NFL.

Bowling has managed to get non-pool-related corporate sponsors, but they also have a tour.

Pool hasn't had any corporate sponsors that I know of in a long while. Of course, in order to get sponsors in, pool needs a product to sell. :embarrassed2:
 
(((Satori))) said:
hell, honey boo boo is getting paid, why not pool? It makes me wonder who started giving it away in the first place.
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Honey Boo Boo's most recent show pulled a 1.7 rating (approx 2 million households).

When ESPN was airing pool on TV, it averaged a 0.2 rating (approx 230k households).

I'd love to see pool back on TV on a regular basis, but given the viewership, there's no reason why any network would pay for this programming.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
I do not mean to answer for CJ, but you are confusing major sports like college football or baseball or basketball with pool. Two entirely different animals. TV will pay for major sports, but not for second and third-tier stuff like pool. ESPN (or anyone else in the USA) has not paid for a second of pool in the last twenty years. They get it for free if they air it and then they air it opposite Monday Night Football or NASCAR.

Pool is filler material for sports networks. That is why you do not see great matches like the Mosconi Cup or the World Cup of Pool on American TV. Because they refuse to pay the price of that material when they can get all the pool they want for free from other sources.

I keep hearing that new sports networks will pay for pool programming. But I have been hearing that for a long time with no results. The new NBC Sports network is on-air and was planned for many years without ever contacting anyone in the world of pool concerning programming.

At the moment pool producers not only have to give the content to the networks, they also have to pay the production costs, usually up around $50-60,000. So not only do they not get paid for their content, they have to pay to get it aired. So ask yourself this: If the networks can get pool for free why would they suddenly decide to pay for it?
Click to expand...

One of my other hobbies is sailing - understanding there are many many more dollars sunk (sorry - too easy) in the America's Cup boats - NBC Sports is running the full Americas Cup - every race. There is a very professionally done website, unbelievable technology ala NASCAR during the race, speed, distance, tracking, closure rates, every conceivable camera, more. FOR SAILING!!!

Unless this is Oracle (the US "Defender" boat sponsor) dumping millions into the programming, I can't see what advertisers are jumping on board. How many gallons of marine paint could they sell??!??

Percentage of pool players in the US vs. the percentage of sailors in the US?

COME ON!! - Get some POOL on TV.
 
mikefeiman said:
Honey Boo Boo's most recent show pulled a 1.7 rating (approx 2 million households).

When ESPN was airing pool on TV, it averaged a 0.2 rating (approx 230k households).

I'd love to see pool back on TV on a regular basis, but given the viewership, there's no reason why any network would pay for this programming.
Click to expand...

The production of pool currently on TV sucks, which makes sense if we are footing the bill; the time slot is no better; and the promotion pales in comparison to honey boo boo. I have little doubt that bonusball or pool could outperform Honey boo boo if done right. That is my opinion.
 
(((Satori))) said:
Why compare pool to another small sport that's not getting paid though when there are other small sports that are?
Click to expand...

What other small sports are getting paid? Darts? That's U.K. Entirely different TV model, and it pulls a surprisingly good rating. Beach Volleyball? Lots of press releases about them signing a deal, nothing about what type of fees. How do you know their getting paid?

NHL, no rights fees in the U.S. until 3 years ago, UFC, originally paid their own production costs on the TUF show. Poker, 90% industry supported, most that content during the boom was paid for by Full Tilt and PokerStars advertising budgets.

You only get paid when two networks want you. One network isn't knocking on pools door, and whose door do they knock on if they were?
 
TCo said:
One of my other hobbies is sailing - understanding there are many many more dollars sunk (sorry - too easy) in the America's Cup boats - NBC Sports is running the full Americas Cup - every race. There is a very professionally done website, unbelievable technology ala NASCAR during the race, speed, distance, tracking, closure rates, every conceivable camera, more. FOR SAILING!!!

Unless this is Oracle (the US "Defender" boat sponsor) dumping millions into the programming, I can't see what advertisers are jumping on board. How many gallons of marine paint could they sell??!??

Percentage of pool players in the US vs. the percentage of sailors in the US?

COME ON!! - Get some POOL on TV.
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They will advertise all kinds of luxury products. I am pretty sure the sailing deomgraphic's wealth is triple that of the pool player's. My brothers adv company got $14k a month to hang ONE poster ad in one of the Airline Clubs in Atlanta as the frequentors were CEO's, Company presidents, and real high salaried wizards. DeBeers was one of the companies advertising there as i recall.

The pool players demo is a 55 y.o. beer drinker with a pot belly, a cough, a lot of wife beater shirts, earning 40K a year.
 
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TCo said:
.... Unless this is Oracle (the US "Defender" boat sponsor) dumping millions into the programming, I can't see what advertisers are jumping on board. How many gallons of marine paint could they sell??!?? ...
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The qualifier for the challengers for the America's Cup was titled the "Louis Vuitton Cup". Vuitton paid a lot of money for the title. I think they recently asked for $7M back because things did not go as they expected. Put

louis vuitton cup 2013

into Google News for more info.
 
I woudnt use bowling as a reference...it is dying very fast........the sport has seen a down hill fall for the last 20 years......very few youth involved in it anymore, and bowling alleys closing like bars.....there one minute gone the next.:frown:



JAM said:
Those are some good points. I often wondered how promoters like Matt Braun, who produces a few pool events a year, does it financially, but he keeps coming back. :smile:

Another thing about bowling is that they actually have a pro tour, unlike pool. :frown:

I agree that comparing pool industry with bowing is a better analogy.
Click to expand...
 
(((Satori))) said:
The production of pool currently on TV sucks, which makes sense if we are footing the bill; the time slot is no better; and the promotion pales in comparison to honey boo boo. I have little doubt that bonusball or pool could outperform Honey boo boo if done right. That is my opinion.
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Not in your wildest dreams will pool ever out do Honey boo boo , pool is not I repeat not even remotely entertaining unless you do a reality pool show with added comedy . Like the pit at the SBE with Kieth McCreedy Ryan McCreesh. Pooky Frankie Hernadez Eddie Abraham for starters , then you have something ' but pool now in its current form has no shot

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