Ron V aiming system video and diagrams
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SpiderWebComm said:
It's pretty obvious that it did. It seems that it would be harder to do this with your palm flat on the table. That's why I asked about the open bridge.
Just so I understand, is it correct that your bridge hand should not move at all, to the left or right, when pivoting to center?
bluepepper said:
You might be right; however, a parallel shift never occurs in that video. Everything pivots to center from 90/90 for each shot.
Rubyron said:
Correct. It shouldn't move. If I feel up to it, I'd make a 3rd video --- but I'm only doing that if I have a helper to physically pin my bridge to the table by leaning on it hard.
It's a non issue. I make the ball no matter what. Flat bridge, open bridge, jacked-up bridge, whatever. I promise, RubyRon. I promise to be a good boy and not ask someone to bet and have this entire thread disintegrate again. I'm not cheating the setup... I'm trying to get good, honest information out there.
Dave,
Thanks for taking the time to make and post the video. My take on it is that by pivoting your body, and eyes, you have changed where the center is on the cue ball - the cue travels less distance on the cueball finding center making a shallower angle. I would guess that if you used the the bridge and pivoted your head the same way the shot would be made just the same. I do believe you are still pivoting from where your bridge is, just changing your reference point to center. If you bridge 15 inches away with your hand and do the same exercise I would think you would hit the object ball too full (or at least fuller).
PJ and others (I feel this way too, but still would like to learn the whole system w/adjustments) is that whatever the new line of travel is created by the pivot of the body, it still creates the same type alignment adjustment all the time so I still believe that it wouldn't work for the range of shots Ron suggests without adjustments of bridge length or amount of pivot. You will miss the balls sometimes or hit them too full.
So what if you moved the object ball and cue ball over 3" each in either direction (keeping the same relationship with each other), would you still make the ball doing the same thing?
Dave, I have invested a good amount of time following this thread and would really like to understand it better. I have tried it and it does work for some shots but I have not had the success that you and others have had. I do appreciate everyone's input and the effort it took to make all videos.
Any thoughts?
Yet another Dave
Thanks for taking the time to make and post the video. My take on it is that by pivoting your body, and eyes, you have changed where the center is on the cue ball - the cue travels less distance on the cueball finding center making a shallower angle. I would guess that if you used the the bridge and pivoted your head the same way the shot would be made just the same. I do believe you are still pivoting from where your bridge is, just changing your reference point to center. If you bridge 15 inches away with your hand and do the same exercise I would think you would hit the object ball too full (or at least fuller).
PJ and others (I feel this way too, but still would like to learn the whole system w/adjustments) is that whatever the new line of travel is created by the pivot of the body, it still creates the same type alignment adjustment all the time so I still believe that it wouldn't work for the range of shots Ron suggests without adjustments of bridge length or amount of pivot. You will miss the balls sometimes or hit them too full.
So what if you moved the object ball and cue ball over 3" each in either direction (keeping the same relationship with each other), would you still make the ball doing the same thing?
Dave, I have invested a good amount of time following this thread and would really like to understand it better. I have tried it and it does work for some shots but I have not had the success that you and others have had. I do appreciate everyone's input and the effort it took to make all videos.
Any thoughts?
Yet another Dave
JoeyA said:
I'd still make the shot.
SpiderWebComm said:
I can accept that. BUT:
Since you've shown that the ball goes when the pivot point is at 25", and you've also shown that the ball is missed entirely when the pivot point is at 10", then the conclusion that must be reached is that to make the ball, the stick (when in the final position) MUST be aligned the same way as it was when pivoted at 25". (There may be a bit of fudging room since the pocket is bigger than the ball, but for now let's call that a concrete fact.)
I just thought of an image that might help describe what I'm picturing:
Let's say you bridge at 1" behind the cue ball. Obviously, to get the tip to center ball you'll have to move your bridge hand roughly 7/8". (1 1/4" - 1/2" for the tip.) If you were to pivot from the 10" or 25" point without moving your hand, the stick would bend but the tip wouldn't move much at all.
This is the problem I'm having with the bridge not moving yet also not being the pivot point. Granted, at 10" the stick only has to shift 1/2" or so, but it still has to shift or the stick will bend as above.
Edit: "shift" has an "f" in it...
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12squared said:
I disagree with your assumption because I've tested it heavily. The mechanical bridge, no matter what your pivot, will provide the same result.
If you move the ball 3" either way you're still making it.
Do you know the entire RonV system? Bridge length (obviously) is important with the system. If you tend to have a really short bridge, you'll have a hard time. All pivot systems tend to thrive with longer bridge lengths.
cigjonser said:
Forget whether the ball goes. It's nice that it goes... but the main thing is I'm hitting it and not missing it by 5". Obviously the point is to make the ball... and that's the beauty of Ron's system: you hit it and make it from all the way downtown.
The stick never bends, ever. I'm not bending my Lambros for any system.
Dave, take a look at 4:03 and 4:23 in your video, but focus on where you hover over the rail with the butt of your cue. Notice the move you make after your initial pivot. It's a cue shift that allows you to make the shot rather than miss the ball completely as you did with the mechanical bridge. You probably didn't realize you did it.
bluepepper said:
That's me getting to center ball. Bluepepper, I'd NEVER miss the ball with the hip pivot. Take that to the bank. *wink*
In other words... don't bet against it.
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SpiderWebComm said:
Interesting. No I do not know the entire system although I did take a phone lesson from Ron months ago, maybe after one of your first posts. Because I couldn't figure out how to hit the cue ball anywhere I wanted to navigate around the table I put the system down.
In regards to you still making the ball if you maintain the same relationship with both balls but moving them 3" or 4", whatever, how is that possible without making another adjustment. I would think you would hit the same exact point of the object ball if it's the same 90-90 to center pivot with the same bridge length, and the balls are the same distance as the test shot, what would change that you would then hit a different part of the object ball.
And if your bridge is solid and doesn't move, how is that different than using a mechanical bridge?
I'm not going to spend a lot of time with this but I really would like to understand it a little better. I find it very interesting and enjoy your passion about the system.
Dave
bluepepper said:
I'm just saying i'm ensuring I'm getting to center ball. I did seem to make a little tweak there, but not to cheat the shot... I was getting to center ball.
Let me say this.....
The content in my video is 100%. I can replicate these shots under adverse / hostile conditions with people's faces 5" from my bridge for money.
I'm NOT saying I'm looking to ignite a war. I'm not afraid to back up what I'm saying, that's all.
Edit:
I do know, by the way, some people will probably still say the bridge is the pivot point after my video. That's cool. I'm at peace with it. Bluepepper, make a video to contradict my video and let me dissect what you're doing.
I'm not afraid to have over 14000 AZB viewers dissect my video because, it is what it is and can be backed up. I'm still waiting for you, PJ, Dr. Dave, and Colin to post your first video on the subject. Let the pool world sort out who's right. So far, it's 2-0. Two of my videos (the second being the stronger by far) against 44 pages of armchair quarterbacks. Let's just say I have zero doubt I'm right.
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SpiderWebComm said:
I'm honestly not against you, Dave. I believe the pivot systems work. I have little doubt that you can make balls. But it's the little tweaks, like that butt shift, that you may not realize you're doing that you may eventually become aware of are the true heart of your pocketing ability, and perhaps not any system.
bluepepper said:
I wish I had something that enabled me to stroke on a track to prove my point after I pivoted. That little movement was to get to center ball.
Anyways, have a good night.
passing out....
SpiderWebComm said:
Good night. Sorry to be a thorn in your side. I agree you had to get to center ball. I think the first pivot where you move the butt of the cue to the right gets you to the center cueball that misses the shot, just like the mechanical bridge shot. Your instincts allow you to realize this, and you create a new center cueball by shifting the butt to the left, moving your bridge a lesser degree to the left, and moving the tip only slightly to the left.
Edit: on the second pivot, it's actually a pivot point that's beyond the face of the cueball, probably the heart of it or beyond towards the object ball.
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I would like to see you get an extension cord to position the CCD (camera) above your bridge with the CB 10" away and the OB 3" away from the CB - 90/90 alignment - hip shift - see how close to the center of the CB the cue tip is to pocket the OB. Observe the cut angle to the pocket.
Move the OB 12" away from the CB and see if the resulting angle to the pocket is the same.
Move the OB 12" away from the CB and see if the resulting angle to the pocket is the same.