Ron V aiming system video and diagrams

His bridge doesn't have to move - neither does yours. There's lateral movement.
Click to expand...

I don't know what that means.

You don't seem to follow the things I say, so there's not much point in our trying to talk about this stuff. Just consider my posts to be in a foreign language for other foreigners. We don't have to argue about it.

Our debate would last about 5 mins before you started talking about the weather, or lipstick on pigs, or something.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know. You play really good and you know lots of really good players. That has nothing to do with anything I've said, but I'm sure it's nice for you.

pj
chgo
 
If the bridge hand doesn't move and the back of the cue (butt) is moved by shifting the hips left or right (new stance), then the effect is similar to BHE.

Shifting the butt of the cue along with the hip to establish a new stance is more secure than BHE - where the result is that you stroke your grip hand either away from or near the stationary hip.

There is no escaping PJ's diagram - a hip shift that works at 1 foot separation between the CB and OB will not cut the same angle at 8 feet separation.

There is a concious or unconcious adjustment that needs to be made for different CB and OB separations (1 ft. through 8 feet).

In another thread the clock system was explained and though it doesn't work, for me, on shots where the CB distance to the OB is a large distance (8 ft) and thus the CB appears much larger than the OB (foreshortening).

On very close shots the clock system works very well for me and I have adopted it for another reference point.

Just havin fun with it....
 
I do have a question..even at the 90/90 positioin ...and you pivot to center..because you are placing your body out of line for the stroke and coming to impact center of the cue ball from an angle. Doesnt that impart spin on the ball.. and if spin is involved how do all the low deflection shafts play into this. I wanted so badly to go down stairs to my pool table and give it a try. However my father in Law is visiting and staying in the spare room downstairs so 1am pool practice was out the window. Im gona break out the old jimmy rempe training cue and give this a try. I know many will say you should never train yourself to mess up your stroke and routine...but i am curious as to how and why this works.

Great post, it nice to see people thinking and moving pool foward.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I'm sure I don't pivot my cue around a point at the bridge like you demonstrate.
Click to expand...

I note only academically as I don't have a horse in this race.

but the OP in the diagrams note specifically that the bridge is the pivot point

"Pivot point (bridge)"
 
Dammit Dave your sounding like a Zealot. Must you always get confrontational about this. PJ's diagram is correct based on what Ron V. did/instructed in the video. The bridge is the Pivot. The back (his thigh/back off his cue shifts/moves/deviates/offsets or any thing else you want to call it). The bridge DOESN'T move (I watched the video again) and he shots straight through from there.

Forget what the adjustment is. Forget whether it works or not. Forget your personal opinion on the matter. The bridge is his pivot (but he does not move his bridge hand).

Nick

SpiderWebComm said:
That's my point. You DO have to. I don't know why he projects like he's omnipotent with aiming - he's far from it. His diagram ISNT what Ron, or what anyone else is doing.

Like I said earlier.... i offered to pay 1/2 his airline ticket to spend a day with me and he declined. He's scared to death of the outcome. Ya see, while he projects to know shit with aiming, guys like Ron really do. If you wanna make diagrams to disprove a technique... I'm all for it... but take the time to do it right and investigate the procedure. DON'T say you don't have to.... if anyone does, it's PJ since he's not knowledgeable with pivot techniques.

One thing I give Colin Colenso a LOT of credit for, is that guy will grind at the table for DAYS before making a post and he plays 10000x better than PJ. Not even Colin would say "I don't need to." That's why I respect his posts whether they favor my opinion or not--- the guy's a player and he's a student of the game. PJ is a student of himself.
Click to expand...
 
softshot said:
I note only academically as I don't have a horse in this race.

but the OP in the diagrams note specifically that the bridge is the pivot point

"Pivot point (bridge)"
Click to expand...

You are correct Sir.:thumbup:
 
Flex said:
OK folks, here goes.

Against my better judgment, I'm posting something that might just help someone improve their potting of balls. I hope they don't use it to beat me!

I watched those videos of Ron V on Youtube as posted above.

What I found after a few hours experimenting, and another three hours playing 9 ball was this.

Starting with the 90/90 position, play around with using the 90/90 for shots that are in the under 15 degree range, and then pivot to center ball and roll the cue ball with a touch of follow and see what you get. For shots in the 30 degree range, line up as for a 90/90 shot, and pivot your cue stick through the point on the cue ball across the object ball and divide it into six equal sections. Then aim the cue stick through the 90 point on the cue ball towards the 2nd of the six points on the top of the object ball, make a bridge about 10 to 12 inches or so, pivot the cue using the your bridge point to the center of the cue ball, and stroke it smoothly, and roll it with a touch of follow and see where the object ball goes. You may find that you need to adjust the length of your bridge, but if it's in the 10 to 12 inch range, you probably won't need much adjustment. For shots in the 45 degree range, do as in the second example above, but point the tip of your cue through the 90 on the cue ball and aim at the top of the center, or point 3 of the 6, then pivot your cue about your bridge to center ball and stroke the cue ball as in the other examples. Do the same for the 60 and 75 degree shots.

How do you tell what the angle is, approximately, without a protractor? Here's what I do, and it works alright for me. From the angle of the cue when at 90/90 to each of the intermediary points on the way to 75 degrees, you will find if you place your cue along those lines that the distance between the points is approximately 12 or 15 inches or so, whatever the distance for your cue is from 0 at 90/90 up to the 75 being 5, divide the angles angles by the distance between the butts at the bumper. Experiment with this a bit, and you'll soon be able to estimate what the angle is, and then make your primary aim line and then the pivot line to center.

Believe me, this thing works.

For me at least; hope it does for you.

As with anything else, if you want to shoot with english, you'll need to make adjustments for squirt and swerve and throw and so on. In the meantime, start to enjoy pool using center ball like you've never done before.

Wow...

Flex

P.S. Sorry if my explanation doesn't make any sense to you. Perhaps it needs to be shown on the table to "get it."
Click to expand...

Flex,
You have hit one one of the more important points in your post about aiming systems.

This might be just you and I but I have a funny feeling that it is a lot more than just you and I. Most of these aiming systems allow players to use center ball like never before. At least for myself, in the past, I have found myself setting up with the cue tip off-center of the cue ball and I wind up putting a little spin on the cue ball to make the shot.

With these aiming systems they require you to get back to center ball by pivoting. When you get closer to center ball, you get more accuracy.

Ron Vitelo's aiming system is a good system and when you use it, it actually makes the game more fun.

Tonight I was experimenting with it and I think that MANY people will improve their ability to pocket the object ball.

Two thumbs up for RonV and Cleary. Thanks for posting the information. I will experiment with it even more in the future. It looks like a GOOD AIMING SYSTEM. I look forward to seeing the Ron V banking system but I thinkn I was using it when I was practicing my banks.. :grin:

Nice work guys.

JoeyA
 
Nick/PJ,

I'm gonna politely make this my last post in this thread because frankly, I don't care.

Any diagram that demonstrates the bridge being the pivot point is incorrect.

If you lay a cue on the table, addressing the CB at the 90-position, pinch it with two fingers and rotate the cue around that point until the tip reaches center ball, you'll see Pat's diagram is completely accurate.

If you pinch the cue at the back of the grip and rotate around that point, you'll see a completely different alignment.

Finally, if you hold the cue while in a stance and pivot your body from the hip.......report back to the AZB forum on which of your two experimental pivots is closer to your shooting technique.

It is what it is. I'm not the drama queen here. I'm merely stating PJ's diagram is incorrect because it doesn't reflect what's happening in the system.

I'm not sure how my point can possibly be argued if either of you would take 30 seconds to walk up to a table and do what I described.

Whether or not you do that is a moot point, because I know the other 1000 azb readers will do it on their own time and figure it out for themselves. That's what's important.

Seacrest...OUT...
 
JoeyA said:
Flex,
You have hit one one of the more important points in your post about aiming systems.

This might be just you and I but I have a funny feeling that it is a lot more than just you and I. Most of these aiming systems allow players to use center ball like never before. At least for myself, in the past, I have found myself setting up with the cue tip off-center of the cue ball and I wind up putting a little spin on the cue ball to make the shot.

With these aiming systems they require you to get back to center ball by pivoting. When you get closer to center ball, you get more accuracy.

Ron Vitelo's aiming system is a good system and when you use it, it actually makes the game more fun.

Tonight I was experimenting with it and I think that MANY people will improve their ability to pocket the object ball.

Two thumbs up for RonV and Cleary. Thanks for posting the information. I will experiment with it even more in the future. It looks like a GOOD AIMING SYSTEM. I look forward to seeing the Ron V banking system but I thinkn I was using it when I was practicing my banks.. :grin:

Nice work guys.

JoeyA
Click to expand...

Ain't that somethin'? I wonder why you're making balls and not missing them completely after the pivot? Hmmmmm :)

Dave

P.S. This is my last one, had to comment on Mr. JoeyA's post.
 
This is not much different than CTE and Center OB to Center CB. Same concept of aiming without aiming. The only drawback is it would not work severe cuts unless there is another aim point.

I don't like the idea of moving my hips after I am down tho...
 
because you are placing your body out of line for the stroke and coming to impact center of the cue ball from an angle. Doesnt that impart spin on the ball..
Click to expand...

"Center" means there will be no spin.

pj
chgo
 
JoeyA said:
Flex,
You have hit one one of the more important points in your post about aiming systems.

This might be just you and I but I have a funny feeling that it is a lot more than just you and I. Most of these aiming systems allow players to use center ball like never before. At least for myself, in the past, I have found myself setting up with the cue tip off-center of the cue ball and I wind up putting a little spin on the cue ball to make the shot.

With these aiming systems they require you to get back to center ball by pivoting. When you get closer to center ball, you get more accuracy.

Ron Vitelo's aiming system is a good system and when you use it, it actually makes the game more fun.

Tonight I was experimenting with it and I think that MANY people will improve their ability to pocket the object ball.

Two thumbs up for RonV and Cleary. Thanks for posting the information. I will experiment with it even more in the future. It looks like a GOOD AIMING SYSTEM. I look forward to seeing the Ron V banking system but I thinkn I was using it when I was practicing my banks.. :grin:

Nice work guys.

JoeyA
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response, Joey.

Although I didn't mention it in my prior post, when playing 9 ball after figuring this thing out, my opponent saw me running the balls like never before, and it was plenty easy. Center ball requires a different kind of game than using english and so on, for obvious reasons. Suffice it to say that whenever a center ball shot was possible and getting shape from it was reasonably easy, I went that way. At one point, my opponent said, "Hey, someone's smokin' on table 2."

While this system isn't the be all and end all, at least not yet for me, it sure is helping me pot a lot more balls.

Flex
 
Flex, I understand what you're describing when you refer to the divisions of the object ball, but I can't seem to follow how you find the right angle with your cue. Can you try to describe that again? Thanks
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I like to analyze these aiming systems because I think players like me are interested generally, but also because I think they may have things to teach us outside the use of the systems themselves. Like maybe how players like me, who can't devote the time necessary to become great "feel" players, can find our way into the zone more often. Or maybe how to use "reference angles" to keep our aiming eye sharp without the need to practice hours a day.

The reason I question these systems so closely is not so I can reject them; it's so I can really understand them so I can get from them what's useful to me.
Click to expand...
Ditto!

Dave
 
I agree with Patrick that Ron is describing a pivot point at the bridge. He explains in the interview video that he first tried moving the butt of the cue to cause the pivot, but found that the changing relationship of body to cue would throw him off. That's why he moves the hip. By moving the hip, the upper body and cue stay in the same relationship. Makes sense.
But the fixed point about which everything else pivots is the bridge.
 
Colin Colenso said:
Of course, if the pivot point varies then this allows a greater range of cuts. The question is, how does it vary?
Click to expand...
I wish somebody would answer this question. You, me, and others have asked it countless times (in various forms).

Dave
 
Johnny "V" said:
This is not much different than CTE and Center OB to Center CB. Same concept of aiming without aiming. The only drawback is it would not work severe cuts unless there is another aim point.

I don't like the idea of moving my hips after I am down tho...
Click to expand...

As stated, this system does work for severe cuts. But that will be explained at a later date. Its not 90/90, its 90/reverse90.

There are 4 parts to this system. 2 have been shown, 2 are on the way. Cant tell you when... I dont have much time to work on it. Work+wife+baby+sleep=24 hours a day.
 
A - B - C - D

SpiderWebComm said:
Ain't that somethin'? I wonder why you're making balls and not missing them completely after the pivot? Hmmmmm :)

Dave

P.S. This is my last one, had to comment on Mr. JoeyA's post.
Click to expand...

FTR, these were shots that were at least 3 to 4 diamonds away.

It appears to me that one group of people want to make a point that aiming systems require adjustments in bridgehand placement, body placement etc.

Another group claims that aiming system XYZ is the greatest thing since slice bread.

If Group A is truly trying to figure out how these aiming systems work, you would think that they would go get a lesson from the source (keeping an open mind) and put it to the test on the pool table; you know, just for academics sake.

If Group B thinks that aiming systems XYZ is the greatest thing since slice bread, then what harm comes from it. They either play better with it or they don't.

There's another Group out there and I think I belong to it. It's Group C. We appreciate the people who put in the time to scientifically disect aiming systems and the other pool phenomena out there. The details of what's actually happening on the table is FUN. When using some of these aiming systems, we also delight in watching the balls, miraculously go in the hole time after time. Group C also believes that VERY TALENTED players use aiming systems as well as ball-bangers and enjoy the journey of learning about the aiming systems and APPLYING the things we learn to help us pocket more balls. This group while mildly interested in the details of what's going on are more concerned with the results obtained by using aiming systems.

There's another group called Group D. They could give a rat's azz about whether there is instinctive adjustment going on with their aiming system. They don't play enough to stay in stroke and their aiming system helps them get their alignment and aiming corrected fast and they pocket more balls with it. Maybe they won't ever be a superstar, but they simply don't care. They have fun playing pool and using aiming systems to pocket balls and they can't understand for the life of it why there is so much heated discussion about aiming systems.

Most everyone tires of the one upsmanship going on about aiming systems and to me it truly looks like each group is trying to prove themselves right.

There are people who are exclusive aiming system users who can play better pool than many non-aiming system users. There are people who have never used an aiming system and see no need for learning one because they can beat 98% of the people they come across. Then there are professional players who actually use aiming systems to enhance their already powerful game.

So Group A, all I'm saying is if you are so interested in learning how these aiming systems work, instead of blowing your dough on a gambling match that you are willing to do, invest it in a pool lesson from one of the aiming system specialists and keep an open mind. Learn WHY MANY PEOPLE are able to pocket balls more easily. Learn how to better your game and then come back and explain it to us why the aiming system works. You can throw in lots of why it doesn't work too and many of us will listen but go to the source of the systems, learn it from them, then come back and authenticate the system, debunk it or just chop it all to hell. Trying to learn these aiming systems ONLINE from those of us who are STILL struggling to improve our game is just plain silly.

I'm not trying to be mean-spirited or start an Internet Main Forum turf war. I just believe that aiming systems are GREAT for the vast majority of players even though the polls indicated that at least in this informed forum, aiming system users are in the minority. If Group A wants to provide the details of why aiming systems work then they should go to the source. Don't rely on a telephone call. Don't rely on some text printed on a computer screen. Don't rely on a youtube video. Be professional about it and go to the source. Pay for the lesson and then come back and give it all you've got. My only other piece of advice is if you go, go with the intent of learning how to improve your game using the inventor's aiming system. You can decide LATER, how or why it does or does not work.

OK, maybe group B and D are from the same clan..:D
Best Regards,
JoeyA
 
Last edited:
learnt my lesson long ago

Joey,

I learned my lesson long ago, at the hands of old men that didn't give a rat's ass why something worked, they just knew what did. They focused on the goal, not trying to endlessly break down why the things they needed to get there worked. They weren't nearly as smart or knowledgeable as this young whippersnapper but they pounded my head into the sand on a regular basis!

Hu




JoeyA said:
FTR, these were shots that were at least 3 to 4 diamonds away.

It appears to me that one group of people want to make a point that aiming systems require adjustments in bridgehand placement, body placement etc.

Another group claims that aiming system XYZ is the greatest thing since slice bread.

If Group A is truly trying to figure out how these aiming systems work, you would think that they would go get a lesson from the source (keeping an open mind) and put it to the test on the pool table; you know, just for academics sake.

If Group B thinks that aiming systems XYZ is the greatest thing since slice bread, then what harm comes from it. They either play better with it or they don't.

There's another Group out there and I think I belong to it. It's Group C. We appreciate the people who put in the time to scientifically disect aiming systems and the other pool phenomena out there. The details of what's actually happening on the table is FUN. When using some of these aiming systems, we also delight in watching the balls, miraculously go in the hole time after time. Group C also believes that VERY TALENTED players use aiming systems as well as ball-bangers and enjoy the journey of learning about the aiming systems and APPLYING the things we learn to help us pocket more balls. This group while mildly interested in the details of what's going on are more concerned with the results obtained by using aiming systems.

There's another group called Group D. They could give a rat's azz about whether there is instinctive adjustment going on with their aiming system. They don't play enough to stay in stroke and their aiming system helps them get their alignment and aiming corrected fast and they pocket more balls with it. Maybe they won't ever be a superstar, but they simply don't care. They have fun playing pool and using aiming systems to pocket balls and they can't understand for the life of it why there is so much heated discussion about aiming systems.

Most everyone tires of the one upsmanship going on about aiming systems and to me it truly looks like each group is trying to prove themselves right.

There are people who are exclusive aiming system users who can play better pool than many non-aiming system users. There are people who have never used an aiming system and see no need for learning one because they can beat 98% of the people they come across. Then there are professional players who actually use aiming systems to enhance their already powerful game.

So Group A, all I'm saying is if you are so interested in learning how these aiming systems work, instead of blowing your dough on a gambling match that you are willing to do, invest it in a pool lesson from one of the aiming system specialists and keep an open mind. Learn WHY MANY PEOPLE are able to pocket balls more easily. Learn how to better your game and then come back and explain it to us why the aiming system works. You can throw in lots of why it doesn't work too and many of us will listen but go to the source of the systems, learn it from them, then come back and authenticate the system, debunk it or just chop it all to hell. Trying to learn these aiming systems ONLINE from those of us who are STILL struggling to improve our game is just plain silly.

I'm not trying to be mean-spirited or start an Internet Main Forum turf war. I just believe that aiming systems are GREAT for the vast majority of players even though the polls indicated that at least in this informed forum, aiming system users are in the minority. If Group A wants to provide the details of why aiming systems work then they should go to the source. Don't rely on a telephone call. Don't rely on some text printed on a computer screen. Don't rely on a youtube video. Be professional about it and go to the source. Pay for the lesson and then come back and give it all you've got. My only other piece of advice is if you go, go with the intent of learning how to improve your game using the inventor's aiming system. You can decide LATER, how or why it does or does not work.

OK, maybe group B and D are from the same clan..:D
Best Regards,
JoeyA
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top