Ronnie O'Sullivan vs Ali Carter Sunday 9 & 2 & Monday 9:30 & 2:30 EASTERN

[FastManners]

Snooker in Asia

To add to Celtics post, they have just announced another large tournament. This one will be called the international open and be held in China. There will be 150k pounds to the winner. Although snooker has always been big in Europe it is starting to get some real commercial traction in Asia.

 

[RunoutJJ]

I noticed that they Ronnie had a chance to lock up the rock on the black with that bank safety towards the side late in the last frame. Seems to me that they rather leave the other guy really long than concentrate on hiding the cue. I hate to say this (I will get crucified for it) but i couldve played a better safe. Don't get me wrong but when Ali tried that double rail hit on the red behind the black?? Really?? Why didnt he just curve it around the brown and glance the side rail right past the middle?? If he hit it Ronnie would've had to duck again.

I guess it doesnt matter since he won but I felt Ronnie wasn't playing well and will get him in the end. ill be watching

 

[Celtic]

I noticed that they Ronnie had a chance to lock up the rock on the black with that bank safety towards the side late in the last frame. Seems to me that they rather leave the other guy really long than concentrate on hiding the cue. I hate to say this (I will get crucified for it) but i couldve played a better safe. Don't get me wrong but when Ali tried that double rail hit on the red behind the black?? Really?? Why didnt he just curve it around the brown and glance the side rail right past the middle?? If he hit it Ronnie would've had to duck again.

I am not sure if you have ever played on a 6x12 snooker table like that with 2 1/8th inch balls and that speed of cloth but playing an actual safety behind a ball on those tables is about 1000 times tougher then hiding behind a noticably larger object ball with a larger cueball on far smaller pool table. Trying to get an actual "snooker" on those tables is not all that easy, in fact for a nornal non-pro it is really not very likely at all and even at the pro level it is as you can see, hard. They are playing for distance but on most of those shots they are also playing to potentially get behind balls alot of the time. But trying to hit the exact point on that smaller object ball to travel 14 or 16 feet on those tables and land behind a 2 1/8th inch ball is not all that easy.

 

[RunoutJJ]

]]

I am not sure if you have ever played on a 6x12 snooker table like that with 2 1/8th inch balls and that speed of cloth but playing an actual safety behind a ball on those tables is about 1000 times tougher then hiding behind a noticably larger object ball with a larger cueball on far smaller pool table. Trying to get an actual "snooker" on those tables is not all that easy, in fact for a nornal non-pro it is really not very likely at all and even at the pro level it is as you can see, hard. They are playing for distance but on most of those shots they are also playing to potentially get behind balls alot of the time. But trying to hit the exact point on that smaller object ball to travel 14 or 16 feet on those tables and land behind a 2 1/8th inch ball is not all that easy.

Yeah like I said I knew I would get it for posting that :lol:

I see your point but ive seen these guys do just that... Clip a red and go around the table and plant that cueball behind a colored ball which is extremely difficult and amazing. They go for these types of safeties and have great success with them.. SO that being said it just seems that locking up the cue on the black would have been easy for Ronnie to execute. Thats all I was pointing out. In no way shape or form can I play like those fellas.. No way :smilewinkgrin:

 

[onepocketron]

I noticed that they Ronnie had a chance to lock up the rock on the black with that bank safety towards the side late in the last frame. Seems to me that they rather leave the other guy really long than concentrate on hiding the cue. I hate to say this (I will get crucified for it) but i couldve played a better safe. Don't get me wrong but when Ali tried that double rail hit on the red behind the black?? Really?? Why didnt he just curve it around the brown and glance the side rail right past the middle?? If he hit it Ronnie would've had to duck again.

I guess it doesnt matter since he won but I felt Ronnie wasn't playing well and will get him in the end. ill be watching

If you know where a 12X6 snooker table is, get on it and play. You will have a much better appreciation for what these guys are doing. It is very very difficult. Not only are the tables huge, but the pockets are very small with the cushion wrapping around them. I am lucky in the fact there are several places in the Houston area that have 12x6 tables. I love this game second to one hole.

The thing is with these guy playing, if you make one mistake and leave an easy shot, you may be sitting for a long time so they play a lot of strategy even if that means not trying to hide the cue ball. Sometimes it is better not to hide or hook you opponent if they have an easy shot to stick you on the side of stack. Since no rail is required, only to hit the ball, it's a completely different philosophy/strategy than pool.

I wish I could watch the matches, but working nights this weekend, so I will have to pick it up on youtube after it's done. No way I can work 6 to 6 and then stay up.:frown:

 

[Bob Jewett]

a 6x12 snooker table like that with 2 1/8th inch balls ...

Regulation snooker balls are 2 1/16 inch in diameter.

 

[Siz]

]]...
I see your point but ive seen these guys do just that... Clip a red and go around the table and plant that cueball behind a colored ball which is extremely difficult and amazing. They go for these types of safeties and have great success with them.. ...

30 or so years ago top players like Ray Reardon, Alex Higgins etc did play this type of safety. It was not easy to do, but if you got it right you had the other guy in trouble; and if you didn't manage to hide the cb, what you left was long enough to probably be safe.

But the pro snooker game has changed since those days. The modern pros pocket the long balls so well that trying to hide behind one of the low value colors is just too risky. Instead, the smart play is usually to decide which side of the table will be the toughest for your opponent and then try to get the cb as close to the short rail as possible on that side of the table.

These days when pros get the cb behind one if the small colors, it is usually accidental, resulting from hitting the ob thinner than they had intended.

 

[acousticsguru]

I am not sure if you have ever played on a 6x12 snooker table like that with 2 1/8th inch balls and that speed of cloth but playing an actual safety behind a ball on those tables is about 1000 times tougher then hiding behind a noticably larger object ball with a larger cueball on far smaller pool table. Trying to get an actual "snooker" on those tables is not all that easy, in fact for a nornal non-pro it is really not very likely at all and even at the pro level it is as you can see, hard. They are playing for distance but on most of those shots they are also playing to potentially get behind balls alot of the time. But trying to hit the exact point on that smaller object ball to travel 14 or 16 feet on those tables and land behind a 2 1/8th inch ball is not all that easy.

I remember the shot RunoutJJ is referring to, and admittedly the same thought went through my my mind (that I'd easily have done better there). Why? Because Ronnie was hardly a foot away from the red, and all he needed to do was to shoot a straight-on stop shot - and it was almost impossible to shoot it so soft that the red wouldn't go the side rail and up table, hidden by black, pink and blue. It's a mystery to me why he nonchalantly hit it twice as hard as necessary and let both the cue ball and the red get away from him, leaving distance, but no safety (also, a ball in the open is harder to kick at, that is, hit cushion-first, than one close to a rail - even we pool players know that). Admittedly, this was the last frame of the session, and both competitors started to look a bit worn out. But the shot itself was just to simple to overlook, and too easy to execute, and it would have sealed the last frame of the session for him (which he ended up losing to Carter), so yes, I was rather baffled, too.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[Slh]

So I am watching this, there are thousands of people watching it also, live in the stands. It is also being seen LIVE on TV in many countries and is being watched by a huge number of people.

The game is not a runout fest, each shot is tough, there is considerable safety play, the players can and do miss. The table is brutally tough, more so then any pool table, and the players shoot fast.

The crowd is not drunk out of their tree and screaming at the players and making a general ruckus like a soccer game or a Mosconi Cup, they are quiet when the players shoot and on occasion they clap when they feel it is justified but not every shot.

The announcers occasionally discuss questionable shot selection, sometimes they mention an open ball in the pack, they are quiet as often as not simply watching the game and letting the viewers do the same. They are not trying to anylize the entire runout and guess which balls the player is going to shoot for the next 5 shots, they are not talking about this one story they heard about Ronnie playing for $5,000 a game in a pub and going off on a tangent.

This single match JUST past it's 5 hour mark as well, in a snooker best of 35 final race to 18 that has the potential to be over 10 hours long.

I am watching this and so many things people say pool needs to become popular, the soccer hooligan fans, the easy tables and constant runouts. People say the game does not work as a spectator sport, and yet spectators for this event are HUGE. People say it does not work because you cannot get many people around a table to see it, and yet thousands are watching this live in person with the help I am going to guess of giant screen TV's for the viewers. People say matches must be fast to "keep" the fan interest and that long sessions simply wont work.

I watch this as it is presented and I think to myself "this game is going to take over from pool in Asia and pool is going to be a dead second rate game world wide". Not because the game of pool does not have the potential to be huge, but because the people in the game of pool trying (or not trying) to promote the game don't have a clue, and the snooker promotors "GET IT" more then ANYONE trying to promote pool today does or anyone who has tried to promote pool in close to a century.

If you think about it, if snooker had loosened up the pockets so more people could compete, so that dominance in the sport was impossible, so that strong amatures had a chance to beat top pros simply because everyone runs out now. If they let those amatures simply pay $2000 to play in a pro event against the pros, and tried to sell THOSE matches to the public with amatures running racks on an easy cut table against pros, do you think the public would buy it? Do you think snooker would be where it is today if they had of compromised the game like that? But in pool we argue that it is imperitive we do this?

The whole of pool is a mess, and ANY and EVERY pool promotor should be watching this as "How to promote and present cue sports 101".

I agree with your post.
Every shot on a snooker table is hard and even O' Sullivan could miss... instead in pool when a pro makes a ball on the break and has a shot on the lowered ball you hear "he is out". The problem with pool is it totally lacks drama. Most of the times a match is decided because a player scratched on the break or came up dry.
Also snooker looks much harder to play to a non pool/snooker fun and you have the feeling of you are watching something amazing, in pool, instead you have the opposite.
When my mother watched a rack of 9 ball she immediately thought it was easy to do, instead when she watches snooker she always ask how these players can make 10ft ( or more) long shots on such small pockets.

 

[TheThaiger]

So I am watching this, there are thousands of people watching it also, live in the stands. It is also being seen LIVE on TV in many countries and is being watched by a huge number of people.

The game is not a runout fest, each shot is tough, there is considerable safety play, the players can and do miss. The table is brutally tough, more so then any pool table, and the players shoot fast.

The crowd is not drunk out of their tree and screaming at the players and making a general ruckus like a soccer game or a Mosconi Cup, they are quiet when the players shoot and on occasion they clap when they feel it is justified but not every shot.

The announcers occasionally discuss questionable shot selection, sometimes they mention an open ball in the pack, they are quiet as often as not simply watching the game and letting the viewers do the same. They are not trying to anylize the entire runout and guess which balls the player is going to shoot for the next 5 shots, they are not talking about this one story they heard about Ronnie playing for $5,000 a game in a pub and going off on a tangent.

This single match JUST past it's 5 hour mark as well, in a snooker best of 35 final race to 18 that has the potential to be over 10 hours long.

I am watching this and so many things people say pool needs to become popular, the soccer hooligan fans, the easy tables and constant runouts. People say the game does not work as a spectator sport, and yet spectators for this event are HUGE. People say it does not work because you cannot get many people around a table to see it, and yet thousands are watching this live in person with the help I am going to guess of giant screen TV's for the viewers. People say matches must be fast to "keep" the fan interest and that long sessions simply wont work.

I watch this as it is presented and I think to myself "this game is going to take over from pool in Asia and pool is going to be a dead second rate game world wide". Not because the game of pool does not have the potential to be huge, but because the people in the game of pool trying (or not trying) to promote the game don't have a clue, and the snooker promotors "GET IT" more then ANYONE trying to promote pool today does or anyone who has tried to promote pool in close to a century.

If you think about it, if snooker had loosened up the pockets so more people could compete, so that dominance in the sport was impossible, so that strong amatures had a chance to beat top pros simply because everyone runs out now. If they let those amatures simply pay $2000 to play in a pro event against the pros, and tried to sell THOSE matches to the public with amatures running racks on an easy cut table against pros, do you think the public would buy it? Do you think snooker would be where it is today if they had of compromised the game like that? But in pool we argue that it is imperitive we do this?

The whole of pool is a mess, and ANY and EVERY pool promotor should be watching this as "How to promote and present cue sports 101".

Great post.

Snooker is a sport: pool is a pastime.

Your point about commentators - ever notice how they constantly refer to good cueing fundamentals and NEVER aiming?

 

[acousticsguru]

I agree with your post.
Every shot on a snooker table is hard and even O' Sullivan could miss... instead in pool when a pro makes a ball on the break and has a shot on the lowered ball you hear "he is out". The problem with pool is it totally lacks drama. Most of the times a match is decided because a player scratched on the break or came up dry.
Also snooker looks much harder to play to a non pool/snooker fun and you have the feeling of you are watching something amazing, in pool, instead you have the opposite.
When my mother watched a rack of 9 ball she immediately thought it was easy to do, instead when she watches snooker she always ask how these players can make 10ft ( or more) long shots on such small pockets.

But this is mainly because 9-Ball has become the professional game of choice. It wasn't always like that, remember?

It's a mystery to me how a game could be considered a sport in which 89% of the balls on the table don't count towards winning towards or losing, worse yet, a game in which someone can break and run out, miss the last ball and hang it in a pocket, turn around and offer his handshake for a win for which his opponent doesn't even have to get out of his chair.

At least in games like 8-Ball and Rotation, one's opponent will have to do some work, whereas only games like Straight Pool, Onepocket and banks share Snooker's principle that the other guy will have to accumulate more points, and in order to so, run as many or more balls, for a win.

Also, non-sloppy pockets are fine, but it should always be possible to shoot balls along a rail at any speed and pocket a ball, or else pool would merely try and emulate Snooker - which needless to say already exists. We don't need another pocket billards discipline in which balls on a cushion or far away are automatically considered "safe", after all, rotational pattern play in Rotation, 9-Ball and 10-Ball, run-outs from nowhere in 8-Ball and Onepocket, banks and kicks in the rotational disciplines and Onepocket, combination and kiss shots etc. & etc. in all pool disciplines, and not least the fact that "leaving distance" alone won't do as a "safety" in pool - all this is worth seeing, and if we fail to sell what makes pool attractive, taking away from what makes it attractive in the first place won't help either.

Pool needs its own niche. Turning back the clock half a century and more, it's kind of sad to realize we had our place in the public's heart, and seemingly didn't make the best of it. Pool has its own specific attraction (which to me consists mainly of the fact that in a best case scenario, it's so much less repetitive than Snooker) - I have no doubt it can be all we want it to be without sacrificing its apparent "easiness". On the contrary, that should be what makes the average person want to to give it a try or their own.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[acousticsguru]

Great post.

Snooker is a sport: pool is a pastime.

Your point about commentators - ever notice how they constantly refer to good cueing fundamentals and NEVER aiming?

That's simply because in 99.9% of cases, we don't hit where we aim. On average, the idea that we miss because we aim off target is delusional.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[predator]

Turning back the clock half a century and more, it's kind of sad to realize we had our place in the public's heart, and seemingly didn't make the best of it.

I know pool had better days in USA half a century ago, but I don't think it was ever big in Europe, at least not in sense of big money offers.

Nowdays, top prize on highest class Eurotour pool tournament is in a range of 3500-5000 Euros. Lowest class snooker pro tournament (Player Tour Championships) offer 10K pounds first prize.
At pool, both at Eurotours and European pool championships, they play with music in the background! I mean, nothing against music in the club, but at major championships? How professional is that?

I really cannot understand why European countries billiard federations don't invest more into snooker. Hopefully success of Luca Brecel will change that in future. In my mind snooker really is the pinnacle of all billiard games. Something like Formula One in motorsports.

 

[Scaramouche]

Awesome thank you!!!!


Do they have to win 35 games to win the set??

Best of
Have to win 18
Could be all over this morning

Google and youtube searches are a bit of a pain and not particularly productive, so ....

Video - 2012 World Championship
Today, offering a smorgasbord.
Pick what you like.

Results
http://prosnookerblog.com/calendar/2...-last-32-draw/

The Matches
http://www.youtube.com/user/ShavgaStas
http://www.youtube.com/user/786hunzavalley

The Talking Heads
http://www.youtube.com/user/BetfredWorldSnooker

 

[TheThaiger]

In my mind snooker really is the pinnacle of all billiard games. Something like Formula One in motorsports.

It's a good comparison. F1 is high tech and stylish, whereas American motor sports are all about grunt. Trouble with pool is there's neither style NOR grunt.

There's something seriously wrong with pool when a frame of snooker is over in less time than a rack of pool.

 

[TheThaiger]

But this is mainly because 9-Ball has become the professional game of choice. It wasn't always like that, remember?

It's a mystery to me how a game could be considered a sport in which 89% of the balls on the table don't count towards winning towards or losing, worse yet, a game in which someone can break and run out, miss the last ball and hang it in a pocket, turn around and offer his handshake for a win for which his opponent doesn't even have to get out of his chair.

At least in games like 8-Ball and Rotation, one's opponent will have to do some work, whereas only games like Straight Pool, Onepocket and banks share Snooker's principle that the other guy will have to accumulate more points, and in order to so, run as many or more balls, for a win.

Also, non-sloppy pockets are fine, but it should always be possible to shoot balls along a rail at any speed and pocket a ball, or else pool would merely try and emulate Snooker - which needless to say already exists. We don't need another pocket billards discipline in which balls on a cushion or far away are automatically considered "safe", after all, rotational pattern play in Rotation, 9-Ball and 10-Ball, run-outs from nowhere in 8-Ball and Onepocket, banks and kicks in the rotational disciplines and Onepocket, combination and kiss shots etc. & etc. in all pool disciplines, and not least the fact that "leaving distance" alone won't do as a "safety" in pool - all this is worth seeing, and if we fail to sell what makes pool attractive, taking away from what makes it attractive in the first place won't help either.

Pool needs its own niche. Turning back the clock half a century and more, it's kind of sad to realize we had our place in the public's heart, and seemingly didn't make the best of it. Pool has its own specific attraction (which to me consists mainly of the fact that in a best case scenario, it's so much less repetitive than Snooker) - I have no doubt it can be all we want it to be without sacrificing its apparent "easiness". On the contrary, that should be what makes the average person want to to give it a try or their own.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Pool needs to be fast, furious and fun. It needs to be as exhilarating to watch as it is to play. It needs to be unpredictable. There should be a limit on how many safeties a player can play in a set - 2/3, perhaps. Attack, attack, attack.

Anyone that takes over 20 secs to play a shot should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[acousticsguru]

I know pool had better days in USA half a century ago, but I don't think it was ever big in Europe, at least not in sense of big money offers.

Nowdays, top prize on highest class Eurotour pool tournament is in a range of 3500-5000 Euros. Lowest class snooker pro tournament (Player Tour Championships) offer 10K pounds first prize.
At pool, both at Eurotours and European pool championships, they play with music in the background! I mean, nothing against music in the club, but at major championships? How professional is that?

I really cannot understand why European countries billiard federations don't invest more into snooker. Hopefully success of Luca Brecel will change that in future. In my mind snooker really is the pinnacle of all billiard games. Something like Formula One in motorsports.

Of course the music is meant to even out noises, partly because spectators, in contrast to decades ago, can't seem to keep quiet anymore. I'll admit it does get on my nerves at the Nationals and EPC every year, but it I may be alone in this.

In terms of presentation, how it's sold to the public, Snooker is no doubt the reference billiards sport. The game itself, to me, isn't inherently more interesting than pool, Three Cushion carom, Italian Five or Nine Pin etc. - each hold their own specific fascination, which is why there are players who devote a lifetime of practice to each one of them. I see the different cue sports as alternatives rather than some sort of rivalry - I remember watching the World Pyramid Championship live once, deeply impressed by e.g. Evgeny Stalev, even though it took me a while to figure out what they're doing and why. I'm not one to take away from the love of the game of others, even if mine belongs to pool, with its many variants, and even without, because of the pattern play perhaps the least repetitive billiards discipline of all. Having said that, I'll watch and admire what great players do in all of the other cue sports, and wish they all had a media appearance like Snooker.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[acousticsguru]

Pool needs to be fast, furious and fun. It needs to be as exhilarating to watch as it is to play. It needs to be unpredictable. There should be a limit on how many safeties a player can play in a set - 2/3, perhaps. Attack, attack, attack.

Anyone that takes over 20 secs to play a shot should be ashamed of themselves.

I don't agree insofar as I think there should be no limit to what it can be. It can cover the whole spectrum from fast, furious and fun to exacting and serious - I for one enjoy an hour-long safety battle over a single game of Onepocket, but I understand that the average spectator lacks the experience to appreciate the skill involved. What I mean is, there is no use scaring of the expert fan either. There needs to room for all that makes this game so fascinating, including a Nick Varner (thinking of a specific shot in a match against Jimmy Fusco in the Legends of Onepocket) taking over five minutes in a situation all experts considered hopeless (hill-hill match seemingly bound to be lost, case closed), coming up with the type of shot and run-out for the win that everyone who's seen it is going to remember for the rest of their lives. I mean, whoever lacks the nerve to sweat a match like that would not devote their time to Onepocket to begin with, so why take away from them? I'm repeating myself: there needs to be room for all that!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[bfdlad]

What time in the USA does the final session begin? anyone know?

 

[spanky79]

What time in the USA does the final session begin? anyone know?

any minute now