Router cutting ferrules

dakota

dakota

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am curious to see whether other cue makers prefer to install ferrules and then make taper cuts (router cuts) after the ferrules are installed? I'm sure there are some cue makers that do this and others that don't, but I would love to hear opinions on the subject.

I am also curious... for those people who do install ferrules and make taper cuts, what shaft size do you install your ferrules at?

Thanks for any input...

dakota
 
If I make a shaft from scratch, I install the ferrule well above size and joint rings, then router down to size. Then I can sand with 220,320 and apply finish. I have tried both ways and this way works better for me. As far as size goes, I install ferrule with shaft around 15mm on the end.
 
I can go either way really.
On non-capped ferrules, it's easier.
I can install the ferrule at .530 end and slow cut to .512.
At .530 ends, those shafts have sat for a year at least at that size before I'd ferrule them.

I can install them on finish sized shafts as well.

Pic shows a replacement micarta ferrule.
I can use a helix mill or diamond debur to get it down to fine sanding size.
You can coat the ferrule with CA at around .010 from final size if you like.
Power feed the last fine passes.

Sharp lathe bits are fine as well.
I just like diamond debur for micarta.
 

Attachments

  • debur.JPG
    debur.JPG
    80.6 KB · Views: 1,200
If its uncapped I install early and let the taper shaper take it down
Capped I install at the same time as the tip.
 
Hi,

I use epoxied through ferrules only and install them @ about .090 over the finish taper size when I install my joint rings, drill and tap my joint and install my centering driver device.

I get great results by holding the raw wood without collets in my chuck, back chuck, and tip in a live center in my tail stock after center drilling with a # 1 CD. This way there is no push off on the tennon and my ferrule shaft concentricity is dead on when I glue up and taper turn on my saw machine. Real simple and quick.

For cue repair, I find that this method is great for ferrule replacement jobs also because the ferrule OD cuts very clean without chatter while single pointing when holding the tenon on center during the turning. Very little sanding required.

Rick

IMG_4614.jpg


IMG_4623.jpg
 
Last edited:
Thanks...

scdiveteam said:
Hi,

I use epoxied through ferrules only and install them @ about .090 over the finish taper size when I install my joint rings, drill and tap my joint and install my centering driver device.

I get great results by holding the raw wood without collets in my chuck, back chuck, and tip in a live center in my tail stock after center drilling with a # 1 CD. This way there is no push off on the tennon and my ferrule shaft concentricity is dead on when I glue up and taper turn on my saw machine. Real simple and quick.

For cue repair, I find that this method is great for ferrule replacement jobs also because the ferrule OD cuts very clean without chatter while single pointing when holding the tenon on center during the turning. Very little sanding required.

Rick

IMG_4614.jpg


IMG_4623.jpg
Click to expand...

Rick,

Thanks for the info and the pics. Based on the info and pics, it would lead me to believe that you are not using threaded ferrules?

I have been using threaded and capped juma ferrules which I later cut down to 5/8 tall and eliminate the cap. I'm planning on trying the non threaded juma tube with the larger .312 tenon to see how I like them. It would seem that this would allow me to adopt a method similar to yours. It would eliminate the headache of having to install the ferrule and then re-center drill and all that fun stuff, just to maybe lose my center that has been doing well for the previous 8 or 10 cuts.

Thanks again for your detailed post and pictures. I always appreciate how willing you are to share your ideas and techniques with others.

Thanks again.

dakota
 
ala joey's method
i use kj's cutter to cut tenon & trim ferrule
no push & supersmooth

obviously that's not a ferrule in pic :p
and i use a different blade than pictured
 

Attachments

  • 005-3.jpg
    005-3.jpg
    49.1 KB · Views: 1,146
Last edited:
dakota said:
Rick,

Thanks for the info and the pics. Based on the info and pics, it would lead me to believe that you are not using threaded ferrules?

I have been using threaded and capped juma ferrules which I later cut down to 5/8 tall and eliminate the cap. I'm planning on trying the non threaded juma tube with the larger .312 tenon to see how I like them. It would seem that this would allow me to adopt a method similar to yours. It would eliminate the headache of having to install the ferrule and then re-center drill and all that fun stuff, just to maybe lose my center that has been doing well for the previous 8 or 10 cuts.

Thanks again for your detailed post and pictures. I always appreciate how willing you are to share your ideas and techniques with others.

Thanks again.

dakota
Click to expand...

Dakota,

I have been doing a lot of cue repair for the last 10 years and have done many hundreds of through ferrules. I put 7 file notches to act as glue keyways on the tenon with 5 minute epoxy. I have never had one fail so I agree about the extra work being a headache. Shafts take a lot of time, I am not looking to spend more time unless there is a benefit. In this situation I see no benefit. JMO.

I am not a big fan of threading ferrules and I have notice that most of the cracked ferrules I repair are threaded. Most of the time when I am turning them for removal, they fly off from the lack of bonding. I think this is because people use wax when they are treading with the die to prevent breaking the tenon from the torque imparted. If you are going to take the time to thread a tenon use the live threading method or don't use wax with the die.
JMO,

Rick
 
Last edited:
Rick,

Thanks for the info and the pics. Based on the info and pics, it would lead me to believe that you are not using threaded ferrules?

I have been using threaded and capped juma ferrules which I later cut down to 5/8 tall and eliminate the cap. I'm planning on trying the non threaded juma tube with the larger .312 tenon to see how I like them. It would seem that this would allow me to adopt a method similar to yours. It would eliminate the headache of having to install the ferrule and then re-center drill and all that fun stuff, just to maybe lose my center that has been doing well for the previous 8 or 10 cuts.

Thanks again for your detailed post and pictures. I always appreciate how willing you are to share your ideas and techniques with others.

Thanks again.

dakota
Different strokes for different folks.
You can get Juma rods and experiment with them.
If you do, make some mock-ups/jigs in Delrin or UHMW. That way you can tell how you like them. I've made a few in white delrin.
I'm settled on one config now. I like bigger tenon than .312.
I still thread them though.

From a good talk with a traveling repairman, I was convinced even more threading is the way to go. Wood expands and contracts. I don't trust press fit ferrules.
From talking to some of the peeps in Singapore ( where it gets really humid ), I've found out one really famous brand who press-fits their ferrules are famous for gaps developing at the bottom of the ferrule due to movement.

I only use 5-minute epoxy now for customers who need to get out fast ( On shafts I did not make .)
Hysol and 3M 24-hour epoxy are about as good as any epoxy for collars and ferrules imo. They wick in on wood ( 5-minute epoxy do not do a good job of that imo ), fill gaps and their bond is absolutely industrial strength. They can hold airplane parts.
Machining and threading your tenon is not the same as using a die. Sorry, a .312 threaded ferrule on a die that requires the OD to be not more than .285 is not the same . 5-minute epoxy to fill that cap makes it even worse. That config will have a different sound.
DZ freely shares his excellent video here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVAyMQj1DqI
Dave B shows his big tenon ferrules here. .
http://davebarenbrugge.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/003.jpg?w=640&h=480
I do recommend using OB1's carbon fiber on big tenon'd uncapped Juma or on uncapped LBM or Ivor-X or ivory.
Not so on masonmicarta.
 
Last edited:
JoeyInCali said:


dakota
Different strokes for different folks.
You can get Juma rods and experiment with them.
If you do, make some mock-ups/jigs in Delrin or UHMW. That way you can tell how you like them. I've made a few in white delrin.
I'm settled on one config now. I like bigger tenon than .312.
I still thread them though.

From a good talk with a traveling repairman, I was convinced even more threading is the way to go. Wood expands and contracts. I don't trust press fit ferrules.
From talking to some of the peeps in Singapore ( where it gets really humid ), I've found out one really famous brand who press-fits their ferrules are famous for gaps developing at the bottom of the ferrule due to movement.

I only use 5-minute epoxy now for customers who need to get out fast ( On shafts I did not make .)
Hysol and 3M 24-hour epoxy are about as good as any epoxy for collars and ferrules imo. They wick in on wood ( 5-minute epoxy do not do a good job of that imo ), fill gaps and their bond is absolutely industrial strength. They can hold airplane parts.
Machining and threading your tenon is not the same as using a die. Sorry, a .312 threaded ferrule on a die that requires the OD to be not more than .285 is not the same . 5-minute epoxy to fill that cap makes it even worse. That config will have a different sound.
DZ freely shares his excellent video here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVAyMQj1DqI
Dave B shows his big tenon ferrules here. .
http://davebarenbrugge.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/003.jpg?w=640&h=480
I do recommend using OB1's carbon fiber on big tenon'd uncapped Juma or on uncapped LBM or Ivor-X or ivory.
Not so on masonmicarta.
Click to expand...

Joey,

Thanks for the info and ideas. I do prefer the idea of threading whenever possible. I would like to experiment with larger tenons. My only dilema is that I currently do not have a metal lathe to do live threading. I have considered buying the Hightower thread cutting stuff, but I would rather put that money towards a metal lathe at some point and have the higher accuracy.

With what you described using the larger tenons, are you live threading both the ferrules and tenons?

Thanks again,

dakota
 
dakota said:
Joey,

Thanks for the info and ideas. I do prefer the idea of threading whenever possible. I would like to experiment with larger tenons. My only dilema is that I currently do not have a metal lathe to do live threading. I have considered buying the Hightower thread cutting stuff, but I would rather put that money towards a metal lathe at some point and have the higher accuracy.

With what you described using the larger tenons, are you live threading both the ferrules and tenons?

Thanks again,

dakota
Click to expand...
Yes, I make them from tubes or rods.
Best melamine rods , you can get from Schmelke.
http://schmelkecue.com/cue-making-supplies/ferrules.html
Somehow their rods are cleaner than the tubes.
Tapping melamine is good work. They are really hard. Live threading is much easier.
Mason Micarta tubes you can get from Alex Brick. Real tubes, not from flat sheet. Tubes are better than rods in this one.
Juma you can get from several suppliers.
Phenolic rods for breakers are available everywhere now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top