Ruling body to launch inquiry after allegations of match-fixing

[Vahmurka]

He did look nervous but yet attempted to shoot the correct shot each time. He made balls and tried to play safeties. He did hit the last seven very poorly, but I've seen far worse from very good players before, who were laboring under pressure.

in the video with Burnett explanations (I don't know if it is the same link given here) in the end the expert in BBC studio, namely John Parrott, former pro, says that the miss on the black was bad even for an amateur, and completely disastrous for a pro.
And the excuse Burnett found is not very good IMO. If he already knew fix accusations before the match and it comes close to the result needed - why doesn't he approach Maguire in mid-session interval and ask him as a friend and regular practise partner: pal, save my ass and beat me 9-4 or 9-5 instead of that 9-3 scoreline! Otherwise people talks are inevitable and blah-blah-blah. But hey, the bets were made on 9-3, and none of matching amounts were taken at 9-2 or 9-4... Your call guys.

 

[vagabond]

there is no risk for players to dump it happens all the time in pool as well, when ever they get an opportunity with the bookies.

how many people here would not dump a game for a 100k us$

hi,
It was not the same scenario but in a different kind of situation PBTA ( professional billiards tour association ) once took deciplinary action in 1993/1994 against two top pro players for some deal making during the LA open which was a pro Tour event and nothing to do with Jay` tournament.Deal involved dumping the match.It was a complicated deal and even the experts like 'no saint' Billy Incardona allegedly could not completely comprehend the nuances of that deal made by this particular pro.PBT board had difficulty comprehending the complexities of that deal but the board took the action against the players involved.It was more complex than double crossing .

 

[watchez]

there is no risk for players to dump it happens all the time in pool as well, when ever they get an opportunity with the bookies. the reason why cause there is no money in the games

in the players lounge during the maguire/burnett match everyone was laughing while the match was being played cause they knew what was happening. betting accounts set up 3 days before in glasgow only to bet on 9-3 both players are great friends are scottish and practise together. um are people really that naive? there is no money in snooker anymore

the facts are as bad a performance as burnett put in they wont ban him and they wont ever ban a snooker player for fixing cause you cant prove it, so it will continue to happen alot in future as it happened in past even top players will be implecated like they have been in the past year including a former world champ. how many people here would not dump a game for a 100k us$

This is the idiotic mentality that gets pool no where. No risk to dump? Maybe pool should start banning players--permanently. If I ran a pool tournament, any known dumper would be barred from playing. I don't care if they dumped a tournament, a sports book, a backer, or Charles Manson. If these billiard organizations and tournament organizations won't do it maybe it should happen like it did to Barry Bonds last year in baseball. Silently, he was banned from baseball for cheating, even if MLB wouldn't put an official stamp on it themselves.

Saying it is ok to dump because there is no money in pool is like saying it is ok for the McDonald's worker to steal from the register because he is only making $8 an hour. If that is your job and the wage associated, then adjust to it. Don't steal from it to justify how you are earning your income.

How many people would not dump a game for 100k? The same amount of people that wouldn't walk into their neighbors house and steal their possessions. Remind me not to invite chamillionare or any of his friends over to my neighborhood. Again - stealing is stealing, dumping is dumping. There is no way to quantify it, no way to justify it. And if Grady is upset at a stakehorse for selling drugs or stealing then he can always call the police if he chooses. What we don't need is Grady (who is from the Carolina's right?) imitating Barney Fife or Gomer Pyle and making a 'citizen arrest' so to speak by dumping a stakehorse to get even for some other crime that he thinks was committed.

 

[Fatboy]

This is why dumping will always continue in pool with this mentality. Dumping is a black and white issue. It is wrong, never right. The player that dumps is a blight to the sport. If you have a problem with some of these stakehorses that you speak of, there are other ways to deal with them. I could go on and on but most likely I am speaking to deaf ears.

i dumped off a guy once for $200, stupidest thing I ever did. I did it just to see what it would be like-If it was a good idea or not. I felt aweful, it didnt come off clean either. He never talked to me again and dont blame him. I was 20 years old and just stupid. I have been staked many times since, but I can proudly say win or lose I played my best. Pride is whats lacking in pool. Drugs are everywhere-blamins backers for drugs, is like blaming girls for prostution.

 

[Russ Chewning]

To be honest it really is difficult to say one way or another. For every slightly suspect shot or strange shot choice, there's an equally plausible argument to explain it.

Absolute, utter horseshiite. A flurry of betting days before the final score had it pegged at 9-3, and the score ended up 9-3 because he missed shots.

There is no doubt. He fixed the match.

Russ

 

[Russ Chewning]

I talk about it in Pool Wars. I was the ref, standing right next to the table.

I hope you didn't hold back, Jay..If players are willing to sell their integrity for a few bucks, they should be able to claim the negative reputation, as well.

Russ

 

[chamillionare]

Were you there or is this just hearsay? Why don't you tell us why you got banned from the pro snooker tour? Or do you just prefer to talk about other guys?

well its no secret why i got banned from snooker but the real story of my retirement you or the general public dont know about and never will, like alot of stuff that goes on.

after a few good glasses of red the point i was trying to make is it is next to impossible to ban someone cause it is impossible to prove. that is a fact my case is not relevent because the only reason i got caught on tape discussing match fixing was something totally removed from match fixing. its complicated and i wont go into it here when i wouldnt speak about it for large amounts of money from the tabloids in london.

i have stepped onto usa soil twice and seen one of your WORLD CHAMPS take a bung first hand to lose not hearsay!! i was there.

grady who is a legend stated he has seen it and then reported it yet nothing happened.

another american player at the same tournament hit up a uk friend of mine saying he would let him win for 2 grand so he could qaulify for the next round my friend refused and ended up losing to him.

at the same tournament i heard of other people paying players to lose though that was hearsay, and the ipt changed their payouts because players where dumping at the first tournament that is what the ipt staff told me.

bookies got robbed big time at world 9 ball in cardiff when i was there when it first started and the players never even kept it a secret they thought it was brilliant.

so when i tell you it goes on alot in snooker believe me it does. i mean im giving you the inside story here and your bagging me, or do you know more than me about snooker Jay? im retired i dont need anything from cuesports ever again i have nothing to gain by making shit up, maybe i shouldnt say anything so everyone here can continue to think snooker/pool is an honest game and santa exhists too. it just baffles me that people are so friggin dumb that after all the circumstantial evidence and those terrible shots from burnett people cant see what really happened. maybe there was a psychics convention in glasgow that week so a few of them decided to open accounts 3 days before and only bet on 9-3 cause they knew that was the only game and score they could predict lol.

 

[memikey]

there was no fix there, he barely made the brown, missed shape on the blue-did pot it well all things considered, missed the pink and fluked it in the middle. and dogged the black-he twisted his body when he mis hit the black. They need to chill over there or stop gambling.

a guy doggs a ball and they threaten maguires career, he aint dumb enough to do that, to be sure there is fixing all the time but that right there wasnt. no way!! that particular thing didnt look like a dump, but i wsnt there either, Im aware of how it goes and it shouldnt be noticable, but that didnt seem like a dump to me, i have seen other matches that looked alot more suspeciuos.

Sorry Fatboy but that contains some of the biggest nonsense ever written on here on the subject of snooker. Dumping and correct score fixing by snooker players in world ranking events has been going on for decades. Some have been caught and banned, some have not, but frankly, few incidences of correct score fixing have ever been quite as blatantly obvious as this one.

You really need to have seen the whole of this match (which many of us have) to fully apreciate why it is inconceivable that this was not fixed. However, notwithstanding that it shouldn't just be judged on the last few balls, it's hard to believe how you perceived the last few shots in the way you describe above. The travelling of the white so far up the table after potting a simple brown is absolutely out of the question for my one armed granny, never mind a top 32 pro, even if he were roaring drunk. He then got down on the blue and leathered it towards the pocket, not really caring whether it went in or not as he knew he could dump on the pink or black if necessary. He was horrified when he fluked the pink when trying to miss it and a further 'tell' is that he didn't even make the usual "sorry" acknowledgement to his opponent which is what would happen 99.99% of the time in snooker after such a fluke....even if you are playing against someone you don't like, never mind someone who is a practice partner and friend. The set up miss on black is about as blatant as blatant gets, cos by that time he had little choice, he couldn't under cut it as he just might have left it relatively safe.

The betting patterns tell their own story. The full story on that has not yet came out from the bookies but most firms suspended betting long before the match was scheduled to start due to the highly unusual nature of the bets already placed. It is already known that a host of new accounts were opened up the day before the match and all of them placed one bet and one bet only....9-3 correct score.......and that against a background in UK where anyone over 18 can walk into any betting shop and have thousands of betting opportunities available on every sport imaginable.......but no, all new internet accounts and many 'new' cash customers in the betting shops, in the players home area, flooded on to a 9-3 correct score........pulllleeeeeese !

Edit....just to be clear, I'm not saying Maguire was necessarily in on it, but Burnett is bang to rights guilty every which way.

 

[bud green]

The betting pattern does appear to be awful suspicious. Chamillionaire's points about them being friends and training partners is also worrisome.

100k still doesn't seem enough for Maguire to risk his career though.

What's the full story on Cardiff? I hadn't heard about bookies taking a beating that year.

 

[memikey]

The betting pattern does appear to be awful suspicious. Chamillionaire's points about them being friends and training partners is also worrisome.

100k still doesn't seem enough for Maguire to risk his career though.

What's the full story on Cardiff? I hadn't heard about bookies taking a beating that year.

Maguire doesn't need to be in on it, that is often why 9-1, 9-2 or 9-3 is the correct score bet chosen by the intended 'loser'. He can be quite confident of getting up to 2 or 3 frames without any cooperation from his opponent. In a race to 9 snooker isn't remotely similar to 9 ball in respect of the chances of a 9-0 occurring.

Don't know where 100k comes into it because up to now nobody knows what the bookies liabilities are, let alone how many bets Burnett got down. Having said that, some snooker players of Burnett's level, career earnings less than 300k and with not much likely improvement in him and therefore not that much of a future in the game, if not averse to taking a small chance, would probably put the fix in for a helluva lot less than 100k.

 

[watchez]

well its no secret why i got banned from snooker but the real story of my retirement you or the general public dont know about and never will, like alot of stuff that goes on.

after a few good glasses of red the point i was trying to make is it is next to impossible to ban someone cause it is impossible to prove. that is a fact my case is not relevent because the only reason i got caught on tape discussing match fixing was something totally removed from match fixing. its complicated and i wont go into it here when i wouldnt speak about it for large amounts of money from the tabloids in london.
iso when i tell you it goes on alot in snooker believe me it does. i mean im giving you the inside story here and your bagging me, or do you know more than me about snooker Jay? im retired i dont need anything from cuesports ever again i have nothing to gain by making shit up, maybe i shouldnt say anything so everyone here can continue to think snooker/pool is an honest game and santa exhists too. it just baffles me that people are so friggin dumb that after all the circumstantial evidence and those terrible shots from burnett people cant see what really happened. maybe there was a psychics convention in glasgow that week so a few of them decided to open accounts 3 days before and only bet on 9-3 cause they knew that was the only game and score they could predict lol.

The statement in bold has to be the biggest cop out ever posted on AZ. Let's see, you will dump a match for $100K but for a large amount of money you won't say why you dumped? Are you serious? I think you had more than a few glasses of red.....

And then you state you need nothing from cue sports then why are you here? If I owned this site and you were a PROVEN dumper, you would be banned from here as well. You have learned nothing from your mistake and have stated, for $100K or probably less, you would do it again.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Lol

Everyone here boasts that Buddy Hall this and Buddy Hall that....

Then everyone says if someone dumps they should be banned for life....

Wasnt Labron and Hall the final match, that ended the gambling on pool in Vegas?

Dont think you can have it both ways guys......

ken

 

[chamillionare]

The statement in bold has to be the biggest cop out ever posted on AZ. Let's see, you will dump a match for $100K but for a large amount of money you won't say why you dumped? Are you serious? I think you had more than a few glasses of red.....

And then you state you need nothing from cue sports then why are you here? If I owned this site and you were a PROVEN dumper, you would be banned from here as well. You have learned nothing from your mistake and have stated, for $100K or probably less, you would do it again.

you obviously dont read that well as i never said any of that i asked the question who would not throw a game for a 100grand?

im here cause im at home watching tv and thought id post, what could i possibly get from here other than a little entertainment? i live in australia and havent played for around 2 years and more than likely dont intent to play again. my posts had only one intention and that was match fixing is a very common practise in snooker and in pool when they get the opportunity. i should know cause i was a pro for many years and saw it first hand

you really dont have any idea do you i was never accused of throwing a match by anyone ever. like i said before if i wouldnt go into details for money i wont go into here. but what the public knows is nothing sometimes things in life are more complicted than what you read but most people dont understand that.

thats why we have smart people and dumb people rich people and poor

and before in a previous post you said something like you wouldnt invite me or my friends over as we might steal something well, i bet my house is worth many times more than yours so what could you have that i would possibly want? and i doubt i would mix with you thats why i dont play billiards cause there is so many nobs like you involved

 

[dabarbr]

I talk about it in Pool Wars. I was the ref, standing right next to the table.

Since you're not saying much about the match and saving it for your book can you at least tell us how much you wagered on Lebron? Everyone else did.

P.S. I'm not implying that you had something to do with it. What was suppost to happen did happen.

 

[crawfish]

Okay, okay. Isn't it funny how we have another thread praising "the hustler." Remember the pedestal we all put Cooney on? Then, condemn the dump just because it's a tournament?

If you're in a poolroom, someone has already played out an angle. If they think it, they can achieve it.

Come on, guys. The money isn't like golf. Most guys are happy not to have to beg for a chilidog. They survive. I'm not condoning it, but come on. We ALL know what goes on. "Savers, advancing to next round cheese, " Shall I go on? Stop praising the undercover guy that takes someone's last dime and pissing on the guy that decides to do it in a tourney. They are cut from the same mold.

A dump is a dump. Laying down is the exact same thing. Ever know a poolplayer to lay down? Pool is what it is. Sad, but true. Just look at the APA. Sandbaggers? Money was on the line, they'd "bag" even worse. It's just at a different level.

 

[JAM]

Okay, okay. Isn't it funny how we have another thread praising "the hustler." Remember the pedestal we all put Cooney on? Then, condemn the dump just because it's a tournament?

If you're in a poolroom, someone has already played out an angle. If they think it, they can achieve it.

Come on, guys. The money isn't like golf. Most guys are happy not to have to beg for a chilidog. They survive. I'm not condoning it, but come on. We ALL know what goes on. "Savers, advancing to next round cheese, " Shall I go on? Stop praising the undercover guy that takes someone's last dime and pissing on the guy that decides to do it in a tourney. They are cut from the same mold.

A dump is a dump. Laying down is the exact same thing. Ever know a poolplayer to lay down? Pool is what it is. Sad, but true. Just look at the APA. Sandbaggers? Money was on the line, they'd "bag" even worse. It's just at a different level.

Good point!

Some folks think gambling, hustling, action, et cetera, is pool's dirty little secret and is what is keeping pool in the duldrums. :frown:

Yet, go to the DCC or SBE, and look at how many folks are watching the action tables, as opposed to the tournament tables.

This is how mainstream Americans look at pool, a bunch of rough-looking dog hustlers playing pool in "Cat Sucks Saloon."

Professional pool doesn't have a chance, as long as pool is viewed like this by mainstream press. Yet, it's the gambling factor that seems to be the big attraction for some. It's a Catch-22 in play here.

 

[JAM]

Oh, one more thing. I don't see anything wrong with savers between friends. It happens all the time, and it is a way for players to cover expenses. I'm not talking about dumping. I'm talking about two friends that have an agreement for a money percentage to give the other, before the match starts.

 

[JAM]

Duplicate post.

 

[watchez]

you obviously dont read that well as i never said any of that i asked the question who would not throw a game for a 100grand?

im here cause im at home watching tv and thought id post, what could i possibly get from here other than a little entertainment? i live in australia and havent played for around 2 years and more than likely dont intent to play again. my posts had only one intention and that was match fixing is a very common practise in snooker and in pool when they get the opportunity. i should know cause i was a pro for many years and saw it first hand

you really dont have any idea do you i was never accused of throwing a match by anyone ever. like i said before if i wouldnt go into details for money i wont go into here. but what the public knows is nothing sometimes things in life are more complicted than what you read but most people dont understand that.

thats why we have smart people and dumb people rich people and poor

and before in a previous post you said something like you wouldnt invite me or my friends over as we might steal something well, i bet my house is worth many times more than yours so what could you have that i would possibly want? and i doubt i would mix with you thats why i dont play billiards cause there is so many nobs like you involved

When you posed your $100K dumping question, everyone understood that you were inferring that you surely would be first in line.

Tell us then - when you did dump a match, how much did you make?

You don't have any intention of playing again because you can't -

Quinten Hann has been found guilty of breaking rules governing match-fixing and handed an eight-year snooker ban.

The World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association acted after Hann met undercover journalists in 2005.

A disciplinary panel decided that he had "knowingly entered in an agreement to join in an unlawful enterprise to fix results for financial gain."
Hann, who on Tuesday retired from snooker, had denied the charge in a letter, but was also fined ?10,000.

The story that sparked the investigation, published in The Sun newspaper last year, alleged that Hann had agreed to lose a game at the China Open in return for money.

The panel was shown transcripts and video and audio footage of the meetings which took place between Hann and the journalists in March and April 2005.

Hann had informed panel members in advance that he would not be attending Friday's hearing.

The newspaper did not go through with any agreement with Hann, but just by agreeing to lose, he was in breach of rule 2.8.

That states "a member shall not directly or indirectly solicit, attempt to solicit or accept any payment or any form of remuneration of benefit in exchange for influencing the outcome of any game of snooker or billiards."

The playing ban is purely academic following the Australian's decision to quit the sport on Tuesday.

It marks an undignified end to the career of a player of undoubted talent who has been dogged by disciplinary problems both inside and outside the playing arena.

He freely admitted turning up to play at the 2005 World Championships with a hangover, was happy to admit he did not practice and challenged Andy Hicks to a fight after their 2004 game at the Crucible.

You didn't show up for the hearing? In the USA, we call that taking the fifth.

Your actions and exit from pool is kinda like the McDonald's worker that gets fired but yells back at his boss, you can't fire me because I quit.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

Watch a few snooker matches, even look at no-names in the the sport. You will not find anyone miss balls that badly without asking for the CB to be cleaned. They always hit very close to the pocket. The brown that rattles, he probably tried to miss. He over ran blue shape and took a big stroke on the blue thinking he would miss. Makes the blue, hacks the pink and then hands the black. He wouldn't have missed 4 balls than badly during his entire career

How much he missed the yellow and black would be like a pro dart player hitting the bull while trying for double 16. It never happens. John says it all in the interview. He was just short of calling him a cheat. That from a man playing pro snooker for many many years.