I think some people are missing the point of what is trying to be accomplished here. I don't believe we are trying to come up with 20 different ways to run these balls, we are looking for the proper way a very accomplished straight pool player would complete the pattern. That would be the simplest pattern that would get us to the breakball while having least amount of cue ball movement with the least amount of risk in either missing the shot or getting out of line.
I can guarantee you that John Schmidt would never run the balls out as illustrated in the last post.
If you ask me there is no proper way to take them out, theres loads of ways you could play this. theres much easier and safer options than what ive suggested i dont even know if id play them that way. now you could put this situation in front of someone like john schmidt and one day he'd play it one way and on another day a completely different way, it jus depends on how you see them at that time and what you think is the best way to play them! Theres tons of other factors that come into play eg how your feel, what pressure your under etc etc these all come into play in your decision process!
I don't believe we are trying to come up with 20 different ways to run these balls, we are looking for the proper way a very accomplished straight pool player would complete the pattern.
Bill
Bill that's a very nice point you have here. IMO it should be put up every time a new "Run this" comes out, at least for a while
Could you btw ask John to share his view of this pattern? Since you mentioned
Here is my approach I came with all of a sudden. Loaded it to study cuetable and when I made first two shots I noticed I finished at a proper angle to stay below (or is it above?) 15 ball and slightly develop the 2 so that it finishes just outside the rack boundaries.
there is many ways to run these balls but i have to say bill marop and bob jewett were spot on in there decisions.the other patterns had to much movement.there is usually many ways to pick off the last 6 ball and they vary from best to worst but all doable.i would rate marops ,jewetts as the best because of its simplicity and possibly reapers as the worst or fantasy land as jewett pointed out. if reaper played the game more he would improve his thought process no doubt.im happy to see reaper trying 14.1 though as i think he would like the game eventually.basically keep things as simple as possible with as little cueball movement as possible.
I posted those routes as suggestions, they are possible but have even said i still probably wouldnt even play them in previous posts unless left in that situation of the shot trying to develop the 2! if i was actually to play this id more than likely use the 6 ball as my break ball and go about the first two shots as indicated in this diagram and once there, you have a few ways to play it to get on the 6
there is many ways to run these balls but i have to say bill marop and bob jewett were spot on in there decisions.the other patterns had to much movement.there is usually many ways to pick off the last 6 ball and they vary from best to worst but all doable.i would rate marops ,jewetts as the best because of its simplicity and possibly reapers as the worst or fantasy land as jewett pointed out. if reaper played the game more he would improve his thought process no doubt.im happy to see reaper trying 14.1 though as i think he would like the game eventually.basically keep things as simple as possible with as little cueball movement as possible.
Hey john I do enjoy the game of 14-1, I originally come from a snooker backround where i used to practice 2-6 hours a day from the age of 8 to 14, i quit altogether about a month b4 my 15th bd mainly as id had a fight with the golden boy of the club and was asked to leave by the club manager! it was only because i was dragged by a m8 to a new club when i was 17 that i started playing again, didnt realise how much i actually missed playing in those yrs.
Once started again if i become bored of the practice drills and had no 1 round to practice with, which was about 3times a week, id go downstairs in the club and play for about 2hrs on a 9ft brunswick, play 9ball (was far more fun than snooker) and also a release from the restraints of snooker. But got bored of 9ball as it was easy so started playing 14-1 and when i got into that i jus kept on trying to beat my highest runs!
So i do have quite a good understanding of the playing paterns needed. As for the rules i havent got a damn clue just send those babies home and leave 1 up and more importantly dont miss!
highest run is 236, broken the 200 mark a handful of times, hit quite a few 100 runs! Havent played what id consider seriously since leaving home for university and thats coming upto 5 yrs ago! Did practice quite a bit last summer before moving away, the nearest tables are now 30 miles away so i dont really bother playing that much, just when i get that itch that needs to be scratched mainly happens once ive watched some snooker on TV. only come on here to mess round as i get bored in the evenings and to see whats happening. lately as im not working been on here a bit too much
I like the 12 as my break ball, getting to it by rolling even or a little past via the 15 in the bottom left. Here is my run:
6 BL back to the same position for the 7 TL
Roll up for the 1 TL leave an angle on the 13 BL
Leave for the 2 BL if it goes or BS to leave for the 15 BL
Roll even or a little past the 12 TL and the break.
Thanks John for posting. Good to have you checking in. Your endorsement of Marop's run made me take a second look, and I happened to see a slightly different way of approaching it, leaving the 1 to get to the 15 key ball.
I've been looking at this thread for over a week amazed at why anyone believes they need to set up a break ball or nudge the 15 and 12 with that 7 ball sitting perfect for a side pocket break shot. The 6 and 1 lay beautifully for key balls for that shot. The 12 and 15 clear the pocket. This far into the rack, I'd rather do something like what I have diagrammed and work with what I have on the table. If I start trying to nudge the balls from here, I might inadvertently move something that I already have. The below diagram is just an example - the 6 and 13 would also work as break balls (last resort options) - but for me, I like doing this.
I've been looking at this thread for over a week amazed at why anyone believes they need to set up a break ball or nudge the 15 and 12 with that 7 ball sitting perfect for a side pocket break shot.
I didn't even think of the 7 because it looks too high (and at the centerline) of the rack. Can you really get a good break with this setup? You'd have to draw into the pack and just pop a few balls out.
I didn't even think of the 7 because it looks too high (and at the centerline) of the rack. Can you really get a good break with this setup? You'd have to draw into the pack and just pop a few balls out.
I do think you'll hit the pack, but not very hard, and I wonder if the spread would be all that much. Here's another way of getting to that 7 break ball if one is so inclined.
I didn't even think of the 7 because it looks too high (and at the centerline) of the rack. Can you really get a good break with this setup? You'd have to draw into the pack and just pop a few balls out.
That is the way I was taught to play the game - knock a few out and create a secondary break ball. When you have a mess like this and 3 "iffy" break shots - I pick the one that is easiest to deal with. By using the 7, I am pushing balls to the back rail and keeping my cue ball above the stack, so if I play it right I am likely to get another shot. The trick is to not blast the balls all over the place. Of course when you have that type of shot, it is tempting to smash it, but in this game you eventually learn that less = more.
I've been looking at this thread for over a week amazed at why anyone believes they need to set up a break ball or nudge the 15 and 12 with that 7 ball sitting perfect for a side pocket break shot. The 6 and 1 lay beautifully for key balls for that shot. The 12 and 15 clear the pocket. This far into the rack, I'd rather do something like what I have diagrammed and work with what I have on the table. If I start trying to nudge the balls from here, I might inadvertently move something that I already have. The below diagram is just an example - the 6 and 13 would also work as break balls (last resort options) - but for me, I like doing this.
That's exactly what I saw. They all have a clear path to the pocket and you have not one but two perfect key balls with a simple stop shot. I was always taught to try and avoid going into balls when you don't have to if they all go and you have a reasonable break ball. I know the seven won't yield an ear busting wide open table beauty....but it does keep you at the table. Manufacturing a break ball there is certainly an option, but it's good to know that if you fail you can still control the table after this tricky layout is over.
Here's another idea to consider that nobody's mentioned. Pocket the two with the intention of bumping into the 15/12 cluster. This will push the 12 into a break position below the pack without too much trouble. The shot is something just beyond a stun shot so as long as you can execute that at the right speed, you have a good chance of success. If not, the 6 can be a back up break ball if necessary. The 15 would be available for the next shot, and if not then the 13. I would keep the 13 as the key ball preferably.
Hi, Dan. I like your idea of running into the 15-12 and moving them out but I have one small fear with it, depending on the actual layout. The only problem I see with that shot is that you're hitting it soft to keep them from moving all over the place. If you hit that first ball on the wrong side you could get hooked behind it.
MULLY
That's exactly what I saw. They all have a clear path to the pocket and you have not one but two perfect key balls with a simple stop shot. I was always taught to try and avoid going into balls when you don't have to if they all go and you have a reasonable break ball. I know the seven won't yield an ear busting wide open table beauty....but it does keep you at the table. Manufacturing a break ball there is certainly an option, but it's good to know that if you fail you can still control the table after this tricky layout is over.
Exactly. The 7 works enough to get me into the next rack. When I am down to that decision of which break ball to use and how to set up for it, I am also looking at what can be accomplished by using each break ball.
As I said, I just need to contact the stack and knock a few balls out. In the below diagram, the shot you see does not have to be shot with much force to get a few balls out. You just need to avoid the gap between the top two balls in the stack - look at these diagrams -
In the first diagram I contact the 9 ball and bring the cue ball to the rail. The 1 will come out of the pack, as will some of the balls on the side of the rack, hopefully a secondary break shot. If not, I will have the 1 sitting near the corner pocket and I can work towards getting to a secondary break ball from there. This is why you don't want to smash into the rack with this break shot - you want to create an opportunity - to do that you need to exercise care and control and work those balls out of the stack.
In the second diagram we draw into the 8 ball LIGHTLY, and the two will work its way to the corner pocket and the balls along that side of the stack should just peak out of there. If you hit this shot too hard you will get kissed up table by the 8, or lose control of the cue ball some other way... you just want to "skip" off of that 8 ball and either get a shot on the 2 ball - or develop a secondary break shot or a key ball to get to a secondary break shot.
If you look at page 2 of the diagram, I show what could happen if you try to hit this shot with too much force. The 8 ball will kiss the cue ball up table - and the balls will go all over the place. Chances are that you will
a) miss the 7 ball
b) spread the balls on the outer layer of the stack, but leave a cluster in the middle of the triangle
c) sit down for a long time
In this final diagram, I show the way I want the balls on that side of the stack to move when the cue ball hits the stack... notice how I am manipulating the one ball towards the bottom rail...that will serve as an insurance ball after I pocket the 7. I am not just trying to clobber the rack to spread the balls all over the table. I have a definite plan - and I intend to execute it.
Also look at the balls along the side of the stack... I merely want them to nudge themselves outside the triangle to develop a secondary break shot.
If you handle shots like this with the same care and control that you would use to manufacture or "nudge out" a break ball, you will start to see a major improvement in your game, and your high run will increase.(Edited to add) You will also not be intimidated by break balls that seem to show very little promise, such as the 7 in the side.
Thanks Blackjack. I'll remember this. I noticed that your second diagram, probably because you were just making the point rather than trying to show perfect lines, shows what I think is an impossible angle off of the 7 into the 8, so I moved the 7 slightly in the following diagram to where I think it would have to be to make that break shot. One thing that's good to notice is that these side pocket break shots are an extension of the side of the rack break shots. When they get a little too high for the side of the rack, you can just play for the side pocket.
Thanks Blackjack. I'll remember this. I noticed that your second diagram, probably because you were just making the point rather than trying to show perfect lines, shows what I think is an impossible angle off of the 7 into the 8, so I moved the 7 slightly in the following diagram to where I think it would have to be to make that break shot. One thing that's good to notice is that these side pocket break shots are an extension of the side of the rack break shots. When they get a little too high for the side of the rack, you can just play for the side pocket.
I did kind of rush through that shot where I contact the 8 ball, but I don't like contacting that ball. If you look at you diagram, you will see that your cue ball is going towards the corner pocket. If it goes in there, it ain't coming back out of there with you shooting.
I like using the 9 because the break ball is going in that direction - so to minimize cue ball movement, I want my cue ball to continue towards that rail. Drawing into the 8, I think you give up some control on that shot - I don't like it because in this situation you need to keep your cue ball above the stack.
Look at the diagram below - and it more clearly illustrates what you are trying to accomplish on the shot. If you cue ball goes below the stack, you run the risk of getting hidden behind the balls. You want to guide the back corner ball out of the stack, and disturb the balls enough to develop a secondary break ball.
If you go below the stack, then if something develops on the side of the rack, you'll have to shoot it down to a corner at the opposite end of the table - not good.
If one of the back corner balls pops out for a shot - you'll have it if you are at points A or B. If you are able to pocket one those "manufactured insurance balls" then you are likely to use a ball behind the stack as a secondary break shot.
Also, if you remain above the stack, you can more easily evaluate, identify, and utilize a dead ball coming out of the stack.
My advice is to stay above the stack on a shot like this, and just make the break ball, and tap a few balls out to give yourself some opportunities to continue your run.
(I know this isn't the best diagram in the world to explain this, but I hope it helps you to understand the principle of controlling the rock, and manipulating key balls out of the stack.)
