Sandbaggers on APA Regionals

[cbi1000]

I play ok

I say practice, get better, become a good SL7 and then you don't have to worry about it.

I'm not to sure that works either. You know me, (Craig), and i'm a sl7 8ball and a sl8 9ball. I played a guy this weekend who was a sl6 in 8ball. I won the match. THEN in 9ball the guy is a sl4. I lost that match.

I give one game in eight ball, then turn around and have to give 30+ balls in 9ball.

This is my first session in a couple years playing apa, it's just like it was when i left.

Cbi

 

[Guerra Cues]

Hey Mr. Softshot, in this scenario I was not the only one seing it, the entire room watching saw it. The guy I aplyed got bumped to a level higher on his very first game, he should have been bumped twice. All I am saying is that it really sucks when people are not tru to themselves. If I was really, really good, I might have won, no doubt, but if you are playing on handicap system, people still should be true to themselves.

I don't know if it happens or not...I've never seen it... "sandbagging" is usually what the loser says the winner did.

you got beat

get over it

practice more and maybe he won't beat you again.

VNEA has a much better (though not perfect) way to do things it isn't a cryptic secret algorithm... its simple division # of points divided by number of games.. losing on purpose doesn't do you any good.. add in getting paid per point... most people want to get their money back.

I've never played APA but all I read from APA members is bad press.. they need to fix something.

 

[Guerra Cues]

Welcome to the APA, Tony.

Seriously, the things you mention are everywhere in the APA. My answer to your (justified) venting is that you should get over being bothered by sandbaggers and low-rent poolrooms or quit and play more tournaments instead.

In the league I played in years ago sandbagging was generally thought of as part of the game, like maximizing your tax deductions or waiting for the after-christmas sales. I left the APA because it hurt my game to play folks who are no threat to get out no matter how many mistakes I made; the sandbaggers never bothered me, they are just hurting themselves by playing below their potential, and generally I could beat them anyway.

Hey Boyd,
You're right. That is why I am starting the BCA league at Edgies. You win, you win, you loose, you loose. The 10 point handicap system is not the best but works really well and what I like about BCA is that in official competitions they really pay attention to sand baggers. You know, a cheater is always a cheater. There are no perfect systems. I am also starting to play more tournaments because that is absolutelly true.

 

[Guerra Cues]

RunoutalloverU...This is only true, if the league operator doesn't care. I had 80 teams (over 600 players) in my APA league, and I knew EVERY one of them. I also had a standard rule, that if you sandbagged, even once, you were automatically, and permanently raised to the top skill level. If you didn't like it...QUIT! I had NO sandbagging in my leagues, for the four years I ran them...ZERO!...and I'm very proud of that fact.

Scott Lee ~ former APA league operator
www.poolknowledge.com

I wish all the APA league operators would do that. That is the right medicine!

 

[TheBook]

From day one when I was introduced to pool it was about hustling (Watching the Hustler). That was the basis of playing pool and I don't think that it is limited to pool. Disguise your ability and beat the other person out of their money. I have heard people talk about it in golf and bowling where there are also handicaps involved.

It appears as if the APA is helping players hone their skills in sandbagging.

It is sad that every sport or game relies on cheating to win. Many cheaters like to think that they are just bending the rules or taking advantage of the loop holes. W. C. Fields was "caught" reading the bible and said that he was just looking for loop holes.

NASCAR fined at least 10 different teams after the first week for violations. Look at baseball, football, even marriages. Cheaters are everywhere.

There are 10 Commands and cheating can be covered by more than one but I don't think players are really concerned about the moral issue.

Cheating is something that will never go away. It is something that we have to deal with and the only satisfaction is some will get caught. Just do your part and play according to the rules and have fun playing.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Wow

I wish all the APA league operators would do that. That is the right medicine!

I wish I was naive enough to believe that there isnt sandbagging in any league.

Okay,,,,maybe I dont. But if you can do it, the best to you.

UGH!

Ken

 

[Robbie]

I wish I was naive enough to believe that there isnt sandbagging in any league.

Okay,,,,maybe I dont. But if you can do it, the best to you.

UGH!

Ken

You do realize you are part of the problem, right? I mean, Im sure you are an awesome player, and could destroy anyone in your area straight up. So why pick on people out to have fun? Thats the part I hate. If Ive got a girl on my team who enjoys the game, and wants a fun somewhat competitive night out, and she has to play (and pay to play) some idiot who is just going to bang balls around and hand her the match anyway, what fun is that.

There is one fun part about sandbaggers though! I ran into a "sandbagger" in Vegas in 9ball. He was their secret weapon, we had heard about him. Im the 8 on our team, so they put him up against me ( he was a 5 ). Beat him 18-2. Most satisfying match I played down there for sure.

If you can dump 1 or 2 nights a week (or however often you play) and still keep your game sharp, the best to you as well.

 

[rackem]

You guys must remember an sl5 who plays in a pool rich envirorment might actually play on the same level as the sl7 who plays in a pool starved envirorment with no competition. The handicap system does depend on your local talent.

 

[PROG8R]

The last time I played in the APA I was a SL5. I joined with the sole intention of going to Vegas in the singles, I could have cared less if the team won or lost every match. Anyways, I made it to regionals, and it began in the morning around 8:00, and that is when I began to handicap myself with Miller Lite. I was waiting for someone to complain or for the LO from that area to kick me out. I was playing very very well, every game I played I ended in 0-2 innings. I did lose a game here and there but it was because they won it by getting out or a BRN. By the time the finals started it was 10:00 at night and I was close to 20+ bottles into the bag. This guy played me so slow that I almost exploded. His saftey play and my beer caused me to forget all the rules (stalemate rule!!). I lost 4-3 and his took 19 in Vegas. Oh well, I will make another return to league play soon. Except now I dont drink anymore. Just take Xanax.

 

[catscradle]

Sandbagging does occur in all handicapped leagues, but not nearly as much as people think it does. Most of what people think is sandbagging is just the natural variance in a person's game. We all have good days and bad days.

 

[UWPoolGod1]

I give one game in eight ball, then turn around and have to give 30+ balls in 9ball.

Cbi

Granted. I have not played APA 9-ball so I really have no frame of reference. I would say that, just like in any 9-ball tourney or match, the winner will ultimately be the person who makes balls on the break, doesn't scratch, plays smart (safes over banks if appropriate, etc) and doesn't miss. Thats all of us, right?. Misses happen and they could get a few balls but after their little run it should be back to controlling the table.

Just like playing a SL2 as an SL7, unless you scratch-make the 8 on break, it should pretty much end 7-0. Unless they are a super sandbagger, they are not running the table and getting out twice unless the SL7 is just playing bad that day and giving them 5 innings per game. My best is a 1-inning match, and every match I would strive to beat that..which is hard to do.

 

[PROG8R]

Just like playing a SL2 as an SL7, unless you scratch-make the 8 on break, it should pretty much end 7-0. Unless they are a super sandbagger, they are not running the table and getting out twice unless the SL7 is just playing bad that day and giving them 5 innings per game. My best is a 1-inning match, and every match I would strive to beat that..which is hard to do.

Yes, that is very good. But I would expect such greatness out of you after that Vegas FIASCO in which you almost won!!

 

[Ken_4fun]

Exactly

You guys must remember an sl5 who plays in a pool rich envirorment might actually play on the same level as the sl7 who plays in a pool starved envirorment with no competition. The handicap system does depend on your local talent.

This is also true. I left an area where there was pretty tough area and played in an area that wasnt so hot either.

I told the people that I thought the skill levels were too high, but probably 1-1 1/2 levels (bigger city verses small town). They got pi$$ed off. I meant nothing by it, but in the smaller town the better players did not play APA. So therefore, what I would consider SL5 became SL6-SL7.

Again, to me it was a ego deal. I am SL3. and proud of it!

Ken

 

[Ken_4fun]

You understand that I understand...

You do realize you are part of the problem, right? I mean, Im sure you are an awesome player, and could destroy anyone in your area straight up. So why pick on people out to have fun? Thats the part I hate. If Ive got a girl on my team who enjoys the game, and wants a fun somewhat competitive night out, and she has to play (and pay to play) some idiot who is just going to bang balls around and hand her the match anyway, what fun is that.

There is one fun part about sandbaggers though! I ran into a "sandbagger" in Vegas in 9ball. He was their secret weapon, we had heard about him. Im the 8 on our team, so they put him up against me ( he was a 5 ). Beat him 18-2. Most satisfying match I played down there for sure.

If you can dump 1 or 2 nights a week (or however often you play) and still keep your game sharp, the best to you as well.

All I am saying is, I have never seen a handicap league (bowling, pool or whatever) that is played full speed.

So if you are a SL7 and I am SL3, do you really think you can beat me? I like my odds.

Dont take it too seriously. Really.

Ken

 

[dabarbr]

Unfortuanally sandbagging does exists, however only by a select group of individuals that are willing to sacrafice their morals and character. These few people are what gives all handicap systems the bad rap.

Most that play league are honest and put out all they can every time they play. In APA I have noticed that when a person of honesty has just gone up a skill level you can see the shine in their smile because they are proud of their accomplishment. They walk around like they just had a medal pinned on them.

I believe that some of the sand baggers prepare themselfs for the Vegas trips only to play in the mini tournament they have there when the other big events are being held. There are no officials there to watch these games.

I once played a skill level four player in one of these tournaments. We met in the finals of an open skill level. A skill level four is the best level to be if you're a sandbagger. Which means that you can come off with a good shot once in a while without being questioned. He broke and ran out the first rack with the skills a high level seven. Believe me it was not a fluke. He then says to me " that the best game I've ever played " I then said to him " how many times have you said that today "

He broke that next rack and ran out. At that time I just felt sorry for all people he played and beat the previous rounds. He could easly win all the tournaments he entered. Scum!

 

[Guerra Cues]

This is also true. I left an area where there was pretty tough area and played in an area that wasnt so hot either.

I told the people that I thought the skill levels were too high, but probably 1-1 1/2 levels (bigger city verses small town). They got pi$$ed off. I meant nothing by it, but in the smaller town the better players did not play APA. So therefore, what I would consider SL5 became SL6-SL7.

Again, to me it was a ego deal. I am SL3. and proud of it!

Ken

Here we have a true sand bagger then. Sl3 playing with a Southwest and Tascarella? Right... Who is your LO? I would like to report you!

 

[UWPoolGod1]

Yes, that is very good. But I would expect such greatness out of you after that Vegas FIASCO in which you almost won!!

I know I am weak.
The thing that frustrates me about that is that I was on the BCA Rulebook the other day and was looking at the previous winners in the back and they put the Winner and Runner up in there. Noone cares who got Bronze! Some good names on that list in the Open. I liked the Nick Varner beating Mike Massey in 1980.

 

[Icon of Sin]

I too played Regionals on Saturday. I am an SL8 in 9ball. I beat 2 SL8s and lost to a friend of mine who is an SL8 by only 2 or 3 balls and got taken out by an SL9. Funny thing is, my friend who put me to the losers bracket is the one that went on to win the bracket.

 

[hilla_hilla]

APA is funny. I have never understood the rating system. I play as a 5 in both 8 ball and 9 ball. My skill level as a 5 in 8 ball is accurate.

The only season I played 9 ball, I lost 1 match out of 10 (and I lost that match only by 2 points). In those 10 matches I played people who are rated 6's or higher and a couple of them I beat by 30 balls or more and still never went up .

 

[Goldy]

Unfortuanally sandbagging does exists, however only by a select group of individuals that are willing to sacrafice their morals and character. These few people are what gives all handicap systems the bad rap.

You think regionals are bad? heh.. Wait until Vegas., or you may have already been there.

sandbagging is real, it happends, it works if done properly.. The point of the matter. What is being done about it? -- I don't think a whole lot.. APA has a good scoring system that enables all qualified players to participate together in 1 national event. This is different that most other popular leagues. AA(Master),A,B,C is usually used in others, which separates everyone at nationals, and of course splitting all the promoted money all over the place. Small Payouts.. APA= BIG PAYOUTS..

I think more that get over the fact that sandbagging is real, and it will continue to happen no matter what is put in place, is just to follow suit or shut up.