SBE 2012 Constructive Criticism

Shermanscs

Steve sherman
Silver Member
I love this event and am grateful to Allen and his staff for promoting the Super Billiards Expo. It is very special that we have something like this on the east coast and we should not take it for granted. I appreciate how difficult it must be to put this event together and I hope it continues to improve and continue to be supported by the fans and players.

Rather than start a thread for ranting, I wanted to start a positive thread that would offer observations and constructuve feedback to help make this an even more successful event in the future.

I was there and offer the following balanced / constructive thoughts. I am interested in the feedback and suggestions of other attendees.

  • The venue / logistics were very disappointing compared to the Valley Forge Convention center. Having the attched hotel and a number of bars / restaurants in the faclity made a huge difference in the past. I would park my car when I arrived, and not touch it again until I left. Very convenient. Finding parking at this facility was difficult and I dreaded when had to leave to head back to the hotel or out for food. Perhaps running periodic shuttles (even if you have to pay a couple of bucks for the service) would help.
  • The food was so/so if you wanted to grab something quick, but is not something you can live on for 4 days. If you advance in the tournament it becomes difficult to leave, and as I said above, it is very inconvenient to leave. More food choices, perhaps with booths from local restaurants would be a good solution.
  • Inconsistency with regard to being able to enter and exit from multiple locations throughout the facility was inconvenient and frustrating. No matter who I asked and how often I asked, I just could not get it straight when I should enter through the back doors or the front. Simply having hand stampers in multiple locations and consistently allowing entry and exit from multiple locations would have eliminated frustration and been more convenient. The convention center is very large and constantly having to walk around half the building was a pain.
  • There was not enough room for the spectators or moving around throughout the amateur tournament area. The tables that formed the isles where the spectators watched were extremely tight. Whether you were sitting or standing, you had to get up every two seconds to let someone who was walking up the isle squeeze through. How anyone in a wheelchair navigated there way through this area (and I saw a few trying), it must have been impossible. I think there was too much jammed in the one room between the 14.1 tables, trick shot tables, three cusion tables and all the tournament tables. As much room as there was, I think that it could have been expanded further. I think there was more available space utilized by another convention behind the amateur playing area. It might be advisable to expand the space.
  • Seperation of the action tables from the vendor area would have avoided issues with regard to allowing individuals to play on the action tables vs. the need to protect the vendor merchandise. These action tables were often the only tables you could get on while tournament play was going on
  • Lighting was really poor. I especially heard this from the seniors and super seniors, although the rest of us had a problem with this as well. It was just too dark and there was often distracting light reflection on the balls from the lights. Lights over the tables would definately help
  • Concrete floor was another issue I heard alot about, especially from the seniors and super seniors. Not sure what can be done about this. As some pointed out, the surface in the past was not much better. I think this just became "another thing" to complain about, just to add to peoples frustration
  • Bathrooms - this is a tough one, but there just needs to be more facilities when you have this many people together at one time for this long. There were long lines at the rest rooms constantly. The poor restroom attendants did what they could to keep them clean, but it was a difficult task. Open to suggestions on this one as I do not think there is an easy answer here.
  • Scheduling seemed to be an issue with pros and amateurs alike. Amateur play times would be rescheduled from 7pm one day to 5pm the next. Day pro events would run over and players you bought a day ticket to see, you had to purchase another ticket to the night match to see. Better organization and planning may help here. Shot clocks on the pros might help to elimate run over. Perhaps there were just too many matches scheduled in given timeslots. Also, when the Wednesday warmup started, all the tables were not setup and as a result, finding a practice table was difficult and the tournament ran much longer than it should have. Players had to wait for hours for their matches to start. If the event started Wednesday evening, all the tables should have been setup
  • Online brackets were awesome as was the iphone/ipad app. The more online information, the better!
  • Mini-tournaments! This is something not limited to this venue and was something that I know people wanted in the past as well. This would require more space and more tables, but this would be tremendous. For those of us who travel from significant distances - single elimination on Thursday is brutal. I know that there is a second chance tournament, but mini's throughout the week would be awesome.
 
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They need to eliminate the tap tournament, its gotten too big and takes up too many tables. Plus I signed up online for the wed. warmup and my matches were spread out. 7, 9, and 11:30 for the finals were my match times. Didn't make any sense. 5 hours for an 8 man mini tournament.
 
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The hand stamp was rediculous by having to go thru one door to get it stamped and then having to walk to the far end for the tournament. No matter where you parked you had to back track to get back to your car. Plus when parking became a big problem the one location for the hand stamp really became idiotic.

I don't know about the concrete being a issue as much as the lack of seating. The other venue was also concrete and maybe tile which doesnt really do much. The proper shoes solves that problem.

Too much waiting around and late play along with having to be back early the next day and then having to wait around again.

The warm ups were fun for those that were in the brackets with the pros. Those unlucky players were told that anything can happen in a short match. They were right. It was fun for them to pay $55 dollars to rack for the pros and watch them break and run and be able to donate $400 for their weekend.

The lack of restaurants hurt.

Blocking off some of the aisles for the billiards and tricks shots didn't help. It caused a lot of excess walking for those playing in that area to get around.

I was told that other areas were being looked at. Considering the circumstances it could have been worse.



.
 
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I was there everyday and really enjoyed the event. Can't wait until next year. But... I agree they really do need to tweak a few things.
They weren't ready for the Wednesday night warmup. The players meeting started 40 minutes late and some of us didn't get our first match until 8 or 9 because they didn't have enough tables set up yet. Forget about being able to practice.
I was there early on Friday for the amateur tourney and parked on that end of the building but had to walk all the way around the outside to get in for the first time and to get my hand stamped. The guys telling us that at the first doors we tried felt bad, even they knew it was crazy, and I think some folks were giving them some grief.
Stayed throughout the day for the vendors and things and attended the evening (6 pm) session of the pro tournament. It was great watching the best players in the world doing their thing, but they were only using 8 tables again this year, same as before, instead of the 16 that they were supposed to be using this year. (Possible the field didn't fill up like they were hoping, not sure.) This area for watching the pro event did not have it's own bathrooms or access to food or drinks. You had to leave and go back to the main expo and stand in those lines with everyone else. And keep in mind that the main expo was only open until 8 pm. We didn't leave the pro event until 1:30 am, still a couple of matches going on, the building now is mostly locked up and the only doors they let you use are the main ones at the complete opposite side of the building from where we parked. (Freezing cold and the coats are in the car)
The facility did not have near enough access to food or bathrooms to accommodate the crowds that this event drew. They need to address things like this for next year and they need to bite the bullet and staff more entrances for the fans to use. Just MHO.
Overall Allen and team put on a great event, as always, and I wish them luck in future years.
Thanks Allen.
 
Dam i was glad i did not go . I went last year and it took me 6.5 hrs to play my 2'd round match , It was nuts . i had to find some outside tournments to play , .. I saw pic's from the show did not look like a lot of people came out to buy cues... I don' t know about the new place . but i hope this will not be the down fall of a great event.
 
Allen should have it in A.C. He's got clout there and might be able to finagle one of those casinos to host the SBE. :)
 
I'm sure allen will make some adjustments ..it was the first year in this location and I expect it to run much smoother next year. I will agree that Tap has to go or more table need brought in. Tap is big enough that they can have there own event. I mean I play less pool on this weekend then if I was at home lol There is no where to play unless you want to gamble and even then you wait over an hour at night to get a shot at one game on a table.
 
Allen should have it in A.C. He's got clout there and might be able to finagle one of those casinos to host the SBE. :)

Very bad idea, I believe I know why it isn't in AC and it makes perfect business sense.

JV
 
This place sucks, period. Its the simplest way to put it.

The event, is still the premium event in pool but it doesn't excuse what you have a year to plan for.

Having NO secure lockdown in the vendors area was a joke. The first night NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, knew what was happening. Not the event staff, and not the vendors. We asked 3 times at the window and we got three "I don't knows". We stood around for an hour till we just said screw it and wheeled everything back to the car. The solution was to put a few 8 dollar an hour guys in charge of protecting millions of dollars in merchandise. Muellers, the events biggest supporter in terms of vendor space, had someone in the booth all night.
So basically the 11-8 day, was a 9-10 day with break down and set up every night. It was purely a joke.
I guarantee that very few vendors came back after dinner for the pit. Just to exhausting. You lost that access that was very convienent if you couldn't sleep. I heard they were charging 10 bucks for nightly access.
Lets extrapolate to next year when the casino is in operation. I guarantee you that pit will be a ghost town. He is going to get slammed by the casino. They have slots and table games, lets see the choice, pay 5 dollars a beer, 10 bucks for the pit, and deal with cold chicken fingers OR go to a luxurious casino where the drinks will be for free and sit and play poker and black jack and get a quality meal. You tell me where you will be spending your time. What this means is that there will be LESS dollars spent in the vendor area. Heed this warning, an 800-1200 dollar cue or some poker.. its not even a close choice. Vendors will do a portion of what they have been doing. I talked to many people and they confirmed this exact situation.
Parking, we were given exhibitors parking passes, for what? There was no exhibitors parking, it was a snow job. Dishonest, all the way. Another of many issues that need to be fixed.
All in all on a scale of 1 to 10, from a vendors perspective, it was a .5.

One last thing.. there were a lot of dealer cases on the floor, NOT Dealers. THis was being overlooked with all the other problems being focused on. I don't mind competing with guys who spend for a booth, but trunk dealers, that is another story.

JV
 
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Allen should have it in A.C. He's got clout there and might be able to finagle one of those casinos to host the SBE. :)

Take an enormous collection of gamblers and people with large sums of money in their pocket (to be spent on cues, etc.) and put them within walking distance of a slew of casinos with free liquor, etc..

Putting SBE in the same place as a casino = SBE will be a losing venture for Allen.
 
Take an enormous collection of gamblers and people with large sums of money in their pocket (to be spent on cues, etc.) and put them within walking distance of a slew of casinos with free liquor, etc..

Putting SBE in the same place as a casino = SBE will be a losing venture for Allen.

I see your point. :o
 
Take an enormous collection of gamblers and people with large sums of money in their pocket (to be spent on cues, etc.) and put them within walking distance of a slew of casinos with free liquor, etc..

Putting SBE in the same place as a casino = SBE will be a losing venture for Allen.

Is it a losing venture for the guys in vegas? Seriously pool players want to play pool! Thats what were there for. but you keep it in a hole like this with no good restaurants or tables to play on the new casino near by will kill this event anyway.
 
Take an enormous collection of gamblers and people with large sums of money in their pocket (to be spent on cues, etc.) and put them within walking distance of a slew of casinos with free liquor, etc..

Putting SBE in the same place as a casino = SBE will be a losing venture for Allen.


I disagree to an extent, I would rather play pool then gamble on crappy electronic machines. Believe me pool players love live action.

As for the event, I think 15 bucks for regular admission is too much.

The floor layout for the vendors was ok, felt strange didn't seem as big because of 1 floor, but I guess just as many vendors as normal.

I did not think the vendors had enough stuff esp the cuemakers, like 5 to 10 cues on Thurs......how many did they have by Sunday?

I am wondering what the vendors thought, how were sales?

I wonder how general admission was this year, not counting the players.
 
expo

this place sucks, period. Its the simplest way to put it.

The event, is still the premium event in pool but it doesn't excuse what you have a year to plan for.

Having no secure lockdown in the vendors area was a joke. The first night no one, and i mean no one, knew what was happening. Not the event staff, and not the vendors. We asked 3 times at the window and we got three "i don't knows". We stood around for an hour till we just said screw it and wheeled everything back to the car. The solution was to put a few 8 dollar an hour guys in charge of protecting millions of dollars in merchandise. Muellers, the events biggest supporter in terms of vendor space, had someone in the booth all night.
So basically the 11-8 day, was a 9-10 day with break down and set up every night. It was purely a joke.
I guarantee that very few vendors came back after dinner for the pit. Just to exhausting. You lost that access that was very convienent if you couldn't sleep. I heard they were charging 10 bucks for nightly access.
Lets extrapolate to next year when the casino is in operation. I guarantee you that pit will be a ghost town. He is going to get slammed by the casino. They have slots and table games, lets see the choice, pay 5 dollars a beer, 10 bucks for the pit, and deal with cold chicken fingers or go to a luxurious casino where the drinks will be for free and sit and play poker and black jack and get a quality meal. You tell me where you will be spending your time. What this means is that there will be less dollars spent in the vendor area. Heed this warning, an 800-1200 dollar cue or some poker.. Its not even a close choice. Vendors will do a portion of what they have been doing. I talked to many people and they confirmed this exact situation.
Parking, we were given exhibitors parking passes, for what? There was no exhibitors parking, it was a snow job. Dishonest, all the way. Another of many issues that need to be fixed.
All in all on a scale of 1 to 10, from a vendors perspective, it was a .5.

One last thing.. There were a lot of dealer cases on the floor, not dealers. This was being overlooked with all the other problems being focused on. I don't mind competing with guys who spend for a booth, but trunk dealers, that is another story.

Jv


joe we talked all weekend and i agree with you. Every point in your post is a valid concern. I can assure you that all complaints/issues will be brought to allens attention so that future sbe's will be enjoyable for all.

Thanks
ron
 
I love this event and am grateful to Allen and his staff for promoting the Super Billiards Expo. It is very special that we have something like this on the east coast and we should not take it for granted. I appreciate how difficult it must be to put this event together and I hope it continues to improve and continue to be supported by the fans and players.

Rather than start a thread for ranting, I wanted to start a positive thread that would offer observations and constructuve feedback to help make this an even more successful event in the future.

I was there and offer the following balanced / constructive thoughts. I am interested in the feedback and suggestions of other attendees.

  • The venue / logistics were very disappointing compared to the Valley Forge Convention center. Having the attched hotel and a number of bars / restaurants in the faclity made a huge difference in the past. I would park my car when I arrived, and not touch it again until I left. Very convenient. Finding parking at this facility was difficult and I dreaded when had to leave to head back to the hotel or out for food. Perhaps running periodic shuttles (even if you have to pay a couple of bucks for the service) would help.
  • The food was so/so if you wanted to grab something quick, but is not something you can live on for 4 days. If you advance in the tournament it becomes difficult to leave, and as I said above, it is very inconvenient to leave. More food choices, perhaps with booths from local restaurants would be a good solution.
  • Inconsistency with regard to being able to enter and exit from multiple locations throughout the facility was inconvenient and frustrating. No matter who I asked and how often I asked, I just could not get it straight when I should enter through the back doors or the front. Simply having hand stampers in multiple locations and consistently allowing entry and exit from multiple locations would have eliminated frustration and been more convenient. The convention center is very large and constantly having to walk around half the building was a pain.
  • There was not enough room for the spectators or moving around throughout the amateur tournament area. The tables that formed the isles where the spectators watched were extremely tight. Whether you were sitting or standing, you had to get up every two seconds to let someone who was walking up the isle squeeze through. How anyone in a wheelchair navigated there way through this area (and I saw a few trying), it must have been impossible. I think there was too much jammed in the one room between the 14.1 tables, trick shot tables, three cusion tables and all the tournament tables. As much room as there was, I think that it could have been expanded further. I think there was more available space utilized by another convention behind the amateur playing area. It might be advisable to expand the space.
  • Seperation of the action tables from the vendor area would have avoided issues with regard to allowing individuals to play on the action tables vs. the need to protect the vendor merchandise. These action tables were often the only tables you could get on while tournament play was going on
  • Lighting was really poor. I especially heard this from the seniors and super seniors, although the rest of us had a problem with this as well. It was just too dark and there was often distracting light reflection on the balls from the lights. Lights over the tables would definately help
  • Concrete floor was another issue I heard alot about, especially from the seniors and super seniors. Not sure what can be done about this. As some pointed out, the surface in the past was not much better. I think this just became "another thing" to complain about, just to add to peoples frustration
  • Bathrooms - this is a tough one, but there just needs to be more facilities when you have this many people together at one time for this long. There were long lines at the rest rooms constantly. The poor restroom attendants did what they could to keep them clean, but it was a difficult task. Open to suggestions on this one as I do not think there is an easy answer here.
  • Scheduling seemed to be an issue with pros and amateurs alike. Amateur play times would be rescheduled from 7pm one day to 5pm the next. Day pro events would run over and players you bought a day ticket to see, you had to purchase another ticket to the night match to see. Better organization and planning may help here. Shot clocks on the pros might help to elimate run over. Perhaps there were just too many matches scheduled in given timeslots. Also, when the Wednesday warmup started, all the tables were not setup and as a result, finding a practice table was difficult and the tournament ran much longer than it should have. Players had to wait for hours for their matches to start. If the event started Wednesday evening, all the tables should have been setup
  • Online brackets were awesome as was the iphone/ipad app. The more online information, the better!
  • Mini-tournaments! This is something not limited to this venue and was something that I know people wanted in the past as well. This would require more space and more tables, but this would be tremendous. For those of us who travel from significant distances - single elimination on Thursday is brutal. I know that there is a second chance tournament, but mini's throughout the week would be awesome.


This pretty much covers everything good job. I would add that it needs to be kept a little cleaner. Trash cans were over flowing and trash was everywhere. The bare concrete floor is hard on older people and people with physical ailments. Carpet helps tremendously with the fatigue.
 
I disagree to an extent, I would rather play pool then gamble on crappy electronic machines. Believe me pool players love live action.

As for the event, I think 15 bucks for regular admission is too much.

The floor layout for the vendors was ok, felt strange didn't seem as big because of 1 floor, but I guess just as many vendors as normal.

I did not think the vendors had enough stuff esp the cuemakers, like 5 to 10 cues on Thurs......how many did they have by Sunday?

I am wondering what the vendors thought, how were sales?

I wonder how general admission was this year, not counting the players.

Lol. Gamblers also love table games like poker, blackjack, craps, roulette,etc.. And they have LOTS of those in Atlantic City.

But wait and see. Assuming they keep SBE at this venue, a new casino 5 mins.away might prove my point OR yours.
 
Moving the SBE to Atlantic City would be like moving the DCC from the Executive West to the Horseshoe Casino -------->>> terrible idea!
 
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