Schon vs. Joss

[Rod]

I own several Joss cues, and really like the hit of them. I have heard that Schon cues have a similar hit, but have never played with one, not too many in my area, what i am wondering, is the difference in the price justified, in thems of playablity? I know the resell is better on a Schon, but is the playabily worth the additional cost?

Joss cues have straight taper shafts for the first 12" or so. A Schon has a conical taper. A Schon has a stiffer feel because of this. So, if you don't mind a shaft that grows in size (not by a lot) through the stroking area, you may like them. Compare apples to apples and use the same tip of course. Price as always depends on the cue.

Rod

 

[HollyWood]

They both need a stroke-

Shane has played with his mothers schon butt, with his Joss shaft off a custom cue, Danny Janes made for him . And has won all of the biggest tournements in the world, with it. mark

 

[poolplayer2093]

Shane has played with his mothers schon butt, with his Joss shaft off a custom cue, Danny Janes made for him . And has won all of the biggest tournements in the world, with it. mark

i play with the same setup and i haven't won anything yet though.

 

[snipershot]

now a days i would not buy a production joss cause from what i heard they are made elsewhere and imported to the usa. <<

where did you hear this? Last I knew, Joss was a Made in the USA company.


Joe

 

[snipershot]

Well i guess that proves it?????

i've seen a few threads on here of pictures of people's schons that were broken. most of them say that the guy just dropped the cue, from the leaning it against the table or some thing, and it breaks at the forearm. i've never heard of joss's breaking that easily

Its been my experience that the stories of "it fell", or "I just leaned it in the corner" are just stories made up by embarrased people that dont want us to know that they cant control their tempers I have never heard of these problems. It wasnt that long ago that I picked up my first Schon, and after doing quite a bit of research on here, it was clear that Schon was considered the better cue. But I still like em both, now I just gotta get one of those Mezz cues I keep hearing about........





Joe

 

[manwon]

I own several Joss cues, and really like the hit of them. I have heard that Schon cues have a similar hit, but have never played with one, not too many in my area, what i am wondering, is the difference in the price justified, in thems of playablity? I know the resell is better on a Schon, but is the playabily worth the additional cost?

The Schon cue is the closet production style cue that you can buy to a custom cue. The production of Schon cues is Top notch, the materials used are Top Notch including the shaft wood, and with all this considered it certainly justifies the difference in price.

Now, I am not downing Joss cues in any way, however, their production models do not compare in quality to Schon cues in my opinion. However, they do make great custom models for a great deal more money than their production cues.

As far as the hit, since they both have Stainless steel joint, and also are piloted there is not much difference in the hit of these cues, except that in my opinion the Schon cues are balanced better than the production Joss cues.

Take care

 

[poolplayer2093]

The Schon cue is the closet production style cue that you can buy to a custom cue. The production of Schon cues is Top notch, the materials used are Top Notch including the shaft wood, and with all this considered it certainly justifies the difference in price.

Now, I am not downing Joss cues in any way, however, their production models do not compare in quality to Schon cues in my opinion. However, they do make great custom models for a great deal more money than their production cues.

As far as the hit, since they both have Stainless steel joint, and also are piloted there is not much difference in the hit of these cues, except that in my opinion the Schon cues are balanced better than the production Joss cues.

Take care

i think i like that joss cues seem to be thicker in the wrap area.

 

[poolplayer2093]

Its been my experience that the stories of "it fell", or "I just leaned it in the corner" are just stories made up by embarrased people that dont want us to know that they cant control their tempers I have never heard of these problems. It wasnt that long ago that I picked up my first Schon, and after doing quite a bit of research on here, it was clear that Schon was considered the better cue. But I still like em both, now I just gotta get one of those Mezz cues I keep hearing about........





Joe

Oh no joke? i dig mezz cues a lot. imo they're the best production cue available. which model did you get? what joint style? which shaft?

i don't know why but i like hearing that other people in the states use mezz cues. a friend of mine in south carolina said he saw a lot of them over there but i've only seen 2 other people in cali using them. one was me one was mika and one was some guy i saw at crown billiards.

 

[JoseV]

I doubt if your $4200 Joss hit much different then a $500 Joss. you payed about $500 for playability and $3700 for cosmetics.... the shaft is probably just the same shaft that comes with a $200 Joss.
Same goes to fancy Schons vs. simpler Schons.

If you compare two cues that cost $4200 then compare the art work and not the playability....
Most of the playability comes from the shaft and tip, the butt affect the feel more the it affect playability. Take the test I've done using the same 314 shaft on two butts (actually 4 butts as the same shaft fits my McDaniel and my Jacoby as well) each cue feels different but all play the same with the same shaft. Your $4200 went into how the butt will look and not how the cue will play.
To be honest, if I had to spend $4200 on a cue then neither Joss or Schon would be my pick...

I have a 600 doller JOSS i bought back in 98 i played with it for ten years. Then i finally got my new one and could tell right off the bat the hit was no where close to the same both cues have ivory ferreules and same tip but the balance is diffrent my new one and has a solid ivory and silver joint my old one is just stainless steal joint. And the reason why i went with Joss is becsue i never shot with anything else and my dad used nothing but Joss since the 69.

Name one Cue maker alive making cue's longer than Dan. Bill stroud, Mike Segal and Tim Scruggs all learned from Dan before they went on there own. T know it has nothing to do with this topice but i thought i just throw it in there :thumbup:

 

[perspicaz]

I recently have bought a joss (one of the available cues on their site but not the usual production models that you can buy in stores) straight from Dan Janes. Cocobolo 4 pointer into curly maple with fire hue veneers; veneers are sharp, but the outline of points is rounded suggesting cnc.

I asked for a precise weight setup and a 12,75 shaft. The weight was matched perfect, the shaft is incredibly good (although I think the maple might have been bleached a little) and the overall communication was greater than my previous experiences with "custom" cue makers. I got a better weight/balance match to my requirements than with my two previous custom cues. And I ended up selling my custom cue because it was too rear weighted for me and the other one was a gift for my father.

I highly recommend Joss. Very high quality, nice balance for me and the shaft wood is pretty good. At least this one I got straight from Dan Janes. I have not played with a Schon so I can't comment really.

I have small hands and I have not noticed the Joss handle to be any thicker than usual. Maybe it is just me.

 

[JoseV]

where did you hear this? Last I knew, Joss was a Made in the USA company.


Joe

Snipershot is right, Joss always made there cues in baltimore and never had there cues made anywhere else.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I have a 600 doller JOSS i bought back in 98 i played with it for ten years. Then i finally got my new one and could tell right off the bat the hit was no where close to the same both cues have ivory ferreules and same tip but the balance is diffrent my new one and has a solid ivory and silver joint my old one is just stainless steal joint. And the reason why i went with Joss is becsue i never shot with anything else and my dad used nothing but Joss since the 69.

Name one Cue maker alive making cue's longer than Dan. Bill stroud, Mike Segal and Tim Scruggs all learned from Dan before they went on there own. T know it has nothing to do with this topice but i thought i just throw it in there :thumbup:

I'd rather have a scruggs than a stroud joss. that's just me though. i've hit balls with both cue makers and the scruggs hit way better imo

 

[JoseV]

I will have to say that Joss does not make the prettiest looing production cues. But my last Two cues are not production the one on my signiture is my last cue from Joss. I never really been the chaser on the newest Fab and like rare things this current Joss is one of one the they hit is unreal, Look at Ralf Suqet's New playing Joss in fact there is a thread about it on here somewhere and he is kicking some ass with it.

 

[poohkiller]

Tad Kohara and Ernie Gutierrez have begun building cues sooner than Dan Janes, to answer your question - but, on the other hand, I seriously doubt that a couple of years or even 10 years matter when we are talking about 3-4 decades.

As for a Schon vs. a Joss: I have played with an 03 series Joss and a few others and I just didn't like their feedback, nor the way they hit with their original shaft or with a predator shaft. As for their construction, they all were sound, perfectly built so you can see the knowledge behind the cues but I didn't like any of them.

I have owned an STL-4 Schon with the ivory ferrule Schon shaft and it was wonderful - good feedback on shots and very-very consistant. It was too stiff for my liking on shots but all that I have said above is 100% true for the cue - in my opinion.

One very last thought: I, personally, seriously doubt that two cues should be compared to each other by how fast/soon does any of them break when they "fell". There is only one force a cue should endure, and that is coming from the tip - everything else belongs to the category of misuse and abuse (once again: in my opinion).

 

[JoseV]

Tad Kohara and Ernie Gutierrez have begun building cues sooner than Dan Janes, to answer your question - but, on the other hand, I seriously doubt that a couple of years or even 10 years matter when we are talking about 3-4 decades.

As for a Schon vs. a Joss: I have played with an 03 series Joss and a few others and I just didn't like their feedback, nor the way they hit with their original shaft or with a predator shaft. As for their construction, they all were sound, perfectly built so you can see the knowledge behind the cues but I didn't like any of them.

I have owned an STL-4 Schon with the ivory ferrule Schon shaft and it was wonderful - good feedback on shots and very-very consistant. It was too stiff for my liking on shots but all that I have said above is 100% true for the cue - in my opinion.

One very last thought: I, personally, seriously doubt that two cues should be compared to each other by how fast/soon does any of them break when they "fell". There is only one force a cue should endure, and that is coming from the tip - everything else belongs to the category of misuse and abuse (once again: in my opinion).

Tad Kohara and Ernie Gutierrez ? Are they still alive to this day ? If so i stand corrected

 

[Cuephoric]

apples and oranges and pears....

Oh no joke? i dig mezz cues a lot. imo they're the best production cue available. which model did you get? what joint style? which shaft?

i don't know why but i like hearing that other people in the states use mezz cues. a friend of mine in south carolina said he saw a lot of them over there but i've only seen 2 other people in cali using them. one was me one was mika and one was some guy i saw at crown billiards.

Mai put away her Predator for a Mezz, and after she left me try it out at Diamonds in Rancho Cordova I can understand why.
A $200 Joss plays the same as a $2,000 Joss- damned good. But there is zero difference in the playability.
I just traded a custom for a Schon ltd on Friday, and can honestly say that I've never found a Joss that I would trade a decent/good handmade cue for.
Danny Janes makes a great cue, but even though they are both production cues, I'd never trade a custom for a Joss.
Not even the Enigma as good looking as it is.
I have however traded for old Runde era Schons quite a few times, even though I generally don't touch production cues.
Schons are the closest thing to a custom cue out of all the production cues made in the US out there.
There's NO WAY I'd ever pay $2-3,000 for ANY McDermott or Meucci, even though there are probably some out there that are worth it, I don't see it. I bought a Masterpiece when McD came out with them for $2,000, just to get one in Vegas for $800 later that week, and won one in a raffle the same trip out there.lol And selling all three for as much as possible I barely broke even.shrug.
I bought the Meucci Special edition #10 several times now, and probably will again, but that's not a normal Meucci, and is a rare production cue that goes up in Value...
Joss cues are super consistant, Schon cues are the same, but tend to have better balance and are stiffer, both are easy players and sellers but Schon is the better cue for the dollar IMO, and they always have been pretty much. Since Joss and JossWest aren't the same, that's a whole different animal,altogether.

Now if you want to compare Schons to JossWest...... I think you already know which one I'd pick.:wink:

 

[Cuephoric]

Name one Cue maker alive making cue's longer than Dan. Bill stroud, Mike Segal and Tim Scruggs all learned from Dan before they went on there own. T know it has nothing to do with this topice but i thought i just throw it in there :thumbup:

Jim McDermott, Bob Meucci, both were making cues in the 60's if you want to go off of the ones that went on to become production cues.
GinaCue, Tad, Bert Schrager, Searing.....
Never hear that Stroud learned from Janes.
Partners yes, but I guess I've never dug around too much, since Bill makes great cues and Joss makes production cues.
Not the same category.
Clay Etheridge built his cues,too....

I'm sure there are probably several cue makers that were around in the 60's that still build cues.
How long has Richard Black been building cues?
Somewhere in the vicinity of Danny isn't it?
Now I have to call around and find out who is the oldest production cue maker still alive and the longest running custom cuemaker that uses cnc now, and the same category without cnc....
lol Anyone on here that can save me some phone calls and enlighten us?

 

[poohkiller]

I definitely wouldn't make it depend on the use of CNC - at all. Take a look at ANY ginacue and say that they could be more elaborate, more nicely built and made... I doubt you'll that, despite the fact that they have been built using CNC. Do the same with a JossWest... all I mentioned is true for any JWs as well - from my point of view.

Dan Janes and Bill Stroud were working together, and during the early 70's (if I know correctly?) they had to make decisions. Dan has decided to build cues in bigger volume, mass producing them while Bill has decided to build custom, one of a kind cues.
Both gentleman have reached their goal as their cues are well respected and cherished by A LOT of players all around the world - let them be players who need a good tool to play pool or collectors looking for something more. (exceptions can be found, for example this Enigma cue that is one of the nicest Joss cues to date).

I know for sure - from the awesome TAR interview - that Ernie will be building his 50th anniversary cue around 2011-2012.
I know that Ernie has taken about 15 (?) years off designing racing cars, so my other guess would be Tad Kohara but I assume that he has not built that many cues during the past couple of years with his son doing most of the work nowadays.

As for the longest running custom cuemaker that uses CNC, I believe he has to be Bill Stroud - he's been using the CNC since the late 70's or early 80's.

I hope I have not wrote anything incorrect and that my information is accurate.

 

[JoseV]

Jim McDermott, Bob Meucci, both were making cues in the 60's if you want to go off of the ones that went on to become production cues.
GinaCue, Tad, Bert Schrager, Searing.....
Never hear that Stroud learned from Janes.
Partners yes, but I guess I've never dug around too much, since Bill makes great cues and Joss makes production cues.
Not the same category.
Clay Etheridge built his cues,too....

I'm sure there are probably several cue makers that were around in the 60's that still build cues.
How long has Richard Black been building cues?
Somewhere in the vicinity of Danny isn't it?
Now I have to call around and find out who is the oldest production cue maker still alive and the longest running custom cuemaker that uses cnc now, and the same category without cnc....
lol Anyone on here that can save me some phone calls and enlighten us?

I would like to know for my self who as been around the longest a you have stated Cuephoric I stand corrected But now its got my attention tho would be nice to know.

Im little confused since im a little fried from not sleeping from what your saying is you think my Enigma cue is a production Cue ? Joss is a production cue Company but my cue is not a production cue . Its a one of a kind infact i have to emal them becuse i might have issues with customs when i leave iraq.

 

[alstl]

Well i guess that proves it?????

i've seen a few threads on here of pictures of people's schons that were broken. most of them say that the guy just dropped the cue, from the leaning it against the table or some thing, and it breaks at the forearm. i've never heard of joss's breaking that easily

Before I moved I had a steel pole next to my table and my Schon has several tiny bumps in the butt section from contact with the pole. Stilll plays the same and rolls straight. That is my experience with a Schon.