Scott Frost vs The So Called One Pocket Greats

The upcoming induction of two new members to the One Pocket Hall of Fame got me thinking:

Who would win - Scott Frost vs the One Pocket Greats of the One Pocket Hall of Fame if these greats were in their prime.

Ronnie Allen
Artie Bodendorfer
Jack Breit
Melvin Brooks
Billy Burge
Marshall Carpenter
Steve Cook
Jack Cooney
Danny DiLiberto
John Fitzpatrick
Jimmy Fusco
Billy Incardona
Marvin Henderson
The Jansco Brothers
Larry Johnson
Ed Kelly
Hayden Lingo
Grady Mathews
Efren Reyes
Leonard Rucker
Bill Staton
Eddie Taylor

I witnessed Danny Harriman play Billy Johnson one pocket - New School vs Old School. Danny had his opponents head spinning, saying he just go lucky and what kinda shot was that. A few months later, Billy Johnson posted the same great shots in a billiard magazine. I wonder if Scott could make this list of players head spin or would he be outclassed?

i will only do a few, just conjecture of course.... all my matchups based on a small pocket table.....

artie would ROB scott.

i think ronnie vs scott would be interesting of course, but ronnie would get it

i think steve cook in his day would rob scott.

i think scott would rob diliberto

i think the cardone in his prime vs scott would be super close and quite the contrast, i think scott would get him with the scary offense.

bugs would rob anybody when he was playing good i would think

interesting to think about these matchups.

i saw somebody say scott would beat everybody but efren, that may be true on a loose table, but that would be like playing a golf tournament on all par 3's or something, that is, it just wouldn't be "right." truth is, i think a LOT of the players in the initial post would out think scott, but his offense is just so powerful it just don't matter, at least in big pockets.
 
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i will only do a few, just conjecture of course.... all my matchups based on a small pocket table.....

artie would ROB scott.

i think ronnie vs scott would be interesting of course, but ronnie would get it

i think steve cook in his day would rob scott.

i think scott would rob diliberto

i think the cardone in his prime vs scott would be super close and quite the contrast, i think scott would get him with the scary offense.

bugs would rob anybody when he was playing good i would think

interesting to think about these matchups.

i saw somebody say scott would beat everybody but efren, that may be true on a loose table, but that would be like playing a golf tournament on all par 3's or something, that is, it just wouldn't be "right." truth is, i think a LOT of the players in the initial post would out think scott, but his offense is just so powerful it just don't matter, at least in big pockets.

Steve cook would rob scott frost? Lmao for years! Incardona would be close against frost? Lmao for years! I used to play cook in a weekly tournament the first couple years I played.
 
Jay - Who were the great young players of 1991? Frost, Jones, Daulton, Chohan, Owens - were they around?

One of the thoughts I had from my original post was to hear what weight it holds to be a member of the Virtual One Pocket Hall of Fame. When a player with the reputation such as Dick states that he never heard of Artie Bodendorfer until a few years ago, it makes me wonder what stories are real and what stories are just stories. And if someone like Scott Frost, Gabe Owens, Jeremy Jones, Chohan, Joyner, Daulton - the current greats of one pocket today - are shoe ins for the One Pocket Hall of Fame?

Watchez, (very colorful alias, I trust thats not your real name)

As usual, you are a way off target. (again)
As most of my peers know, I took a 20 year hiatus from pool. ('73 to '93) And when I say hiatus, I mean I never went in a pool room, or picked up a stick. A decision I sure don't regret today. (but I do regret what I missed in the pool world)

So for me not to have heard of a guy who rarely left his home town, was not that unusual. I understand Artie B. himself has said, that he quit playing about 1985 (around the middle of my hiatus)
AB is about 10 years younger than me,...so when I was 30, he was a teenage newbie. Plus, in his short career, he played in almost zero major tournaments. I played in very few myself.
Also, Jack Cooney was a publicity hound (LOL) compared to Artie.

I was never a pool detective, which appears to be your main forte. So for me never to have heard of him, is really not that shocking...except maybe only by your uninformed, misconstrued, and confused bungling of the facts.

Also, you seem to be on a mission to undermine the admirable work, of Steve Booth, on One Pocket.org... and his efforts to promote our game, and keep its history intact, by initiating, and founding, the 1P Hall of Fame.
What could make you think ANYONE would listen to YOU, on that subject ?

Is it yet another attempt by you, to show how smart you are ???....FAIL !!!

As you probably knew when you started this thread, it would be divisive and would include many of your ilk...who don' have a f-ing clue about one pocket, or what it was like back in the day.
Jay Helfert knows whereof he speaks, and you see fit to argue with him.... Un-F**king-believable.
I responded to Fast Lenny as a courtesy to him...I almost didn't when I saw you were the thread starter.

I think your best game is... professional s--t disturber...JMHO

Dick Mc Morran

PS.. The 5 or 6 guy's you mentioned, (in your post) might well wind up in the HOF, someday...WHATS YOUR POINT ???
 
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This thread is very interesting with a bunch of opinions, most of us have not seen the older players in their prime. Scott played Ronnie Allen a couple years back and gave him 10-5 for $1,000 playing 5 ahead, Ronnie quit.

As for Corey I am sure they have exchanged cash a few times and in a short race it can go either way with these top players. Look at DCC and John Schmidt but in an ahead set...lets say 8 ahead, Scott would win IMO.

I think Gabe's tournament will be great and look forward to it, the race to 5 is excellent. DCC is the equal to the One Pocket Championship but race to 3 Final is too short.

I think Scott will do as well as he wants to do, he was never much of a tournament player, he is a gambler, he plays for the cash, night life, no practice and not playing everyday. His game could go way up if he was on the tournament trail playing the top players.
 
Steve cook would rob scott frost? Lmao for years! Incardona would be close against frost? Lmao for years! I used to play cook in a weekly tournament the first couple years I played.


you're probably right? who knows though? i have seen him play only twice but i can have fun and open my mouth :) but, just so you know, from what i saw he shoots like crazy (we all know this), and if on a tight table i thought maybe some brainy players might beat him. i didn't think all that much of his moving compared to other movers, but again, what do i know. the one thing i DO know is offensive players who shoot the lights out tend to miss more when there's a lot on the line, and since they rely on that funny stuff happens. not knocking him just a pattern ive seen.
 
you're probably right? who knows though? i have seen him play only twice but i can have fun and open my mouth :) but, just so you know, from what i saw he shoots like crazy (we all know this), and if on a tight table i thought maybe some brainy players might beat him. i didn't think all that much of his moving compared to other movers, but again, what do i know. the one thing i DO know is offensive players who shoot the lights out tend to miss more when there's a lot on the line, and since they rely on that funny stuff happens. not knocking him just a pattern ive seen.

About 7 or 8 years ago Scott would shoot at everything, in recent times he still shoots but moves much more when needed, the thing is that he does not need to move someone very much before they say uncle and will shoot at weaker players more so then not.

He is a great shot maker and runs out excellent but the funniest thing which me and a friend of mine who has seen Scott play for thousands per game is that people are thinking he cannot move with the best of them. When he is playing other top one pocket players you will see moves, someone will make that first mistake and its usually over, its not move and make 1-2-3, its move and make 8. Scott made a big mistake at DCC shooting at John when he could have out moved him.
 
Lenny,

This is just my opinion. Scott would probably be the favorite, to beat anybody in the world RIGHT NOW, at one pocket, in a long set.

I am trying not to live in the past, but for about ten years of his prime, No one on earth, before or since...could have beat RA even up, when his mixture was right. (which he controlled very well)
I never saw him shoot the wrong shot, and he could run 8 or 10 and out, as easy as Scott does, on a lot tougher equipment. (and also in a lot rougher spots)

I know its hard to look at him now, and see that...but I honestly believe that Efren (in his prime) may not have got there, due to Ronnie's superior moving, not to mention the conversation. Red was never near the "cash getter" that RA was, even though their game was pretty close.

If you tried to pin me down, to the best in their primes..I would say #1 all time--- RA/Worst, a toss up...then Marvin Henderson/Efren tied for #2, Then I would rate Jersey Red, Ed Kelly, and Scott, a close 3rd. (along with maybe AB and several others) Artie apparently played a great game, but he just never left his home court enough for ANYONE to accurately judge his speed. I have been around a little bit, and never saw, or heard of AB, until I joined 1P.org. a few years ago...And I'm not the only one to say that.

Again, this is just based on my experience, and what I've seen. And its JMHO

Cardone or Grady may see it different, and they have seen all those guys in action more than I have. Be interesting to see their take on this subject.

SJD

This post holds a lot of weight with me, haha. it's worth reposting it here :)

one thing im curious about, how would you rate frost vs worst if it strictly came to offense?? worst was stronger, right (guess). i didnt even kow worst played a lot of one hole, thats how much i know, and here he is at the top of the list, haha.
 
About 7 or 8 years ago Scott would shoot at everything, in recent times he still shoots but moves much more when needed, the thing is that he does not need to move someone very much before they say uncle and will shoot at weaker players more so then not.

He is a great shot maker and runs out excellent but the funniest thing which me and a friend of mine who has seen Scott play for thousands per game is that people are thinking he cannot move with the best of them. When he is playing other top one pocket players you will see moves, someone will make that first mistake and its usually over, its not move and make 1-2-3, its move and make 8. Scott made a big mistake at DCC shooting at John when he could have out moved him.

My thoughts exactly Lenny. (on the '09 DCC) That is why I have him ranked down a notch or so from some of the proven all time 1P player's
But thats all based on my personal observations. I do firmly believe, he could not have beat RA in his prime, at his level of play right now.
His shot selection against top players will improve, and I agree he could become one of the all-time greats...he's just not quite there YET.

I do think he is the best 1P player in the U.S. (maybe the world ) right now. He will only get better once he learns to NOT relinquish control of the game, when he is up against top player's in short races.
Do not base his play against an out of shape, way over the hill RA, no matter how much weight he was giving up....remember I was in with RA when they played. Ronnie would have won 2 or 3, races to 5 (if you watched the see-saw)...but he could not stand up to a long, grinding ahead session...he was cooked after 12 hours...he gave up with Scott still needing 1 or 2 more games in a 4 ahead race.

That is just the nature of tounament play...you don't get to play long races.

Have a great New Year Bud.

SJD
 
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Jay - Who were the great young players of 1991? Frost, Jones, Daulton, Chohan, Owens - were they around?

One of the thoughts I had from my original post was to hear what weight it holds to be a member of the Virtual One Pocket Hall of Fame. When a player with the reputation such as Dick states that he never heard of Artie Bodendorfer until a few years ago, it makes me wonder what stories are real and what stories are just stories. And if someone like Scott Frost, Gabe Owens, Jeremy Jones, Chohan, Joyner, Daulton - the current greats of one pocket today - are shoe ins for the One Pocket Hall of Fame?

In 1991 only Shannon had emerged as a young champion. He won the Legends of One Pocket that year, beating Miz in the finals. I think he was 19. The rest of these guys didn't start to emerge until later in the 90's. Jeremy won an early U.S. Bar Table Championship in '94 or '95. He beat Don McCoy in the finals. Corey showed up a few years later and played in the finals against Chris MacDonald. He had so much talent already! He looked like a young Earl Strickland to me the way he moved the ball around.
 
That brings up an interesting question. Lets assume this is true for arguements sake.

If you were actually able to warp an "in his prime" Ronnie Allen to today, right in the heart of his truly top gear years (Jay would know that age perhaps, I have no clue), give him a year to prowl around checking out the new equippment, finding a new custom cue he likes, figuring out which fancy new tip he likes, figuring out simonis cloth, the new polymer resin balls. He spends that year watching some accustats, gambling the local talent as it is today, playing in whatever 1-pocket events he can find, ect...

The question I have for you Donny, after that year how good do you think Ronnie would be? Do you think Scott would be into playing him straight up after that year?

Personally, I am guessing Ronnie knew most of the tricks, the few new things that come up would not be something that would take long for a guy with his loads of talent to pick up on, and perhaps then even improve on.

This is kind of my thought on the whole thing. People ask these questions as if they are yanking the older generation player from out of the cold, slapping him down onto a diamond with Simonis and Aramith Pro balls, and saying "OK, play this guy".

Did you watch the IPT Straight Pool match with Sigel and Schmidt? The aftermath and what John had to say says alot about what the pro's of the olden days had to deal with playing with mud balls, technologically inferior rails, and cloth that was not made to the exact standards of today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOlxow0l8bE&feature=channel

For a pro from the 1950's they would have thought this was more the norm of equippment. I have played with the old balls, they play "dead", they dont do bugger all. You have to stroke the ball like crazy to get them to do anything. From video I have seen the cloth is nothing like the slick simonis of today. Players stroke the balls well but the reactions are dull compared to the reactions with todays balls and cloth.

I think that if you grabbed a Mosconi in his absolute prime and his peak level of playing ability and put him against Schmidt immediately in a long set he would be in tough. I think if you brought him into today at his peak and gave him a month to practice and adjust to the equippment he would be the best straight pool player in the world after that month. He simply had that level of natural ability that just warped everyone in a very competitive era of the sport.

These hypothetical debates are interesting. Times do change. But even if a player in the past plays at a lower level in their era if you grabbed that same player and brought them into the present to compete in this era for a full 10 years of their prime I am pretty sure they take in all of todays advantages and end up taking their spot at the top of todays rankings, just like they did in the past.

Keep in mind, Efren at one time did not know how to play 1-pocket. He picked up alot from watching others, he learned some shots, then he went off on his own and revolutionized the game and made it his own, in turn becomming the one now teaching those who he learned from in the past. If Ronnie came into todays world he would already be a master, but anything he learned from the new breed of players would simply be adding more tools to his arsenal and he would then in turn start improvising his own stuff off of that lead and much like Efren leave people going "what the heck is he doin... holy cripe, that was strong".

Another good post Celtic. It was more the slow cloth that made pool so much different in the 60's and 70's. The best players had the most powerful strokes. Miz probably had the most powerful stroke of all time. And Worst and Cornbread may have been second. But all the good players could move the cue ball around the table. Shortstops like me just couldn't do the same things that a top player could, and we knew it. That limited our games.

Ronnie's peak years were probably from about his late 20's to his late 40's. He was the best One Pocket player on the planet for a good twenty years. If somehow a Ronnie in his prime were transported into the present, he would still be "wowing" the onlookers. He just did things playing One Pocket that no one else ever did, past or present. He could teach today's One Pocket players more than a few moves and shots they may not already know.

Most importantly, he could execute those shots. Shots that a lot of good players wouldn't even attempt. Like kicking three rails (from being buried behind the pack) and coming in behind a ball sitting by his opponents hole. The cue ball would tap that ball ever so gently and then touch the end rail for a perfect safe. He had completely turned the game around with that one shot. That was routine stuff for him. Another favorite shot of his was to kick (again from behind the pack) off the end rail and the side rail and back into the stack, sending several balls rolling toward his hole. If one went in, the game was over. He won from spots like this (usually ten and out!) so often that it ceased to surprise me after a while. He could read the pack better than anyone I ever saw.

And people say that Efren kicked better than Ronnie. Efren doesn't even know the shots Ronnie used to play. Kicking one rail into an open ball, Ronnie was even money to make that ball. Yes, he kicked okay I would say. He liked to kick a ball toward his hole and bury the cue ball in the stack. Scott wouldn't be too happy after a few hours of this kind of stuff. No one else was either.

As for Mosconi, he would be a great player in any generation. His cue ball control was as good or better than Efren. And he just never missed a ball! Probably even more flawless than Sigel. It might take him one day to adjust to the faster cloth. The man was a pool playing machine. Playing exhibitions every day for weeks at a time, on slow cloth, he would run a hundred or more every day! And he didn't get several chances to do it. He did it in his exhibition match, so he got exactly one chance, maybe two if he made a short run in his first inning. That's it! Mosconi came out there cold, shot a few balls and did some trick shots and then played a match against a local player. And then he ran a 100 balls or more, like clockwork. You think there's anyone who could do that today? I don't.

Once again, there are definitely many good players today. In fact some of the filipinos and Taiwanese are as good or better than anyone who came before them. I seriously doubt that even Lassiter, Miz or Sigel could have beaten Yang, Wu, Dennis or Alex. They may be better players (but not by much), so I'm not locked into the notion that someone today can't play better than the old time greats. But at One Pocket only Efren has reached the level of the greatest players I ever saw.
 
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My premise may be condescending but when no one can name a player that Artie B. ever beat, I think when I state 'so-called' it is valid. He keeps saying that he is the best and I find it odd that no one ever questions him on it. Also, when some posters come on and state that Scott Frost would beat all but one (Efren) or two (Ronnie) and me only seeing 11 of the members of the One Pocket Hall of Fame hit a ball, my premise was/is how good or great are the members. Other sports have statistics to compare if you had never seen a player play, pool unfortunately does not.

I could have been more respectful but I would not have gotten the pages of response that I have.

Jim Brown would still be a great RB in the NFL today, Ted Williams would still hit close to .400 in baseball today, Jack Nicklaus with today's equipment would still win majors today, Oscar Robertson would still lead the NBA in assists today, Bobby Orr would still dominate the NHL.
 
I could have been more respectful but I would not have gotten the pages of response that I have.

IMHO you would have gotten as many responses regardless of your respect for the players. Just a fact of life on an internet forum! Sad but true!

Lyn
 
I think Scott plays great one pocket first off. But there is a difference in the warrior now a days. I think the players of years past had more grit than most of the players today. Someone said something about "diet" earlier, and that has a lot of truth. You are what you eat and these great players, played other great players, all the time.
 
I think Scott will do as well as he wants to do, he was never much of a tournament player, he is a gambler, he plays for the cash, night life, no practice and not playing everyday.

That is a simple copout FL. You basically gave Scott an out to "not" do well, and negate any loss he might have as "his choice". It is bunk. IF the top players of the game, Efren, Gabe, Jones, Daulton, show up in a match against Scott he is in tough, any one of those players when they are in practice are certainly no worse then 50/50. Efren and Daulton are IMO better then 50/50 if they come into the tournament ready. They are favorites to beat Frost if they are playing right, even if he wants to win. Frost gets a big boost in the fact that Daulton virtually quit playing pool.

Daulton was a flat out better player back in the day, then Daulton quit, Frost did not, and now Daulton is a fraction of his former self and Frost got alot better. And you know what? Frost STILL does not have to beat Daulton, even with him playing at a considerably lower speed then he did in the past. Most of the reason Daulton lost to Reyes in Galveston was shot making, he actually moved well, got into good positions, but then he could not make the payoff shot. That is a man who has the moves and is simply out of practice.

You say Frost does not play every day? Frost puts a heck of alot more effort and time into the game then Daulton I would bet.
 
My premise may be condescending but when no one can name a player that Artie B. ever beat, I think when I state 'so-called' it is valid. He keeps saying that he is the best and I find it odd that no one ever questions him on it. Also, when some posters come on and state that Scott Frost would beat all but one (Efren) or two (Ronnie) and me only seeing 11 of the members of the One Pocket Hall of Fame hit a ball, my premise was/is how good or great are the members. Other sports have statistics to compare if you had never seen a player play, pool unfortunately does not.

I could have been more respectful but I would not have gotten the pages of response that I have.

Jim Brown would still be a great RB in the NFL today, Ted Williams would still hit close to .400 in baseball today, Jack Nicklaus with today's equipment would still win majors today, Oscar Robertson would still lead the NBA in assists today, Bobby Orr would still dominate the NHL.

Instead of being condescending or disrespectful, you could have just asked a question about how Scott would do against these players. If one would stoop to those type of measures to get a possible few more replies, one would have to question the OP's integrity and their further interaction with that person.

If you read near the bottom of this page, you will see some of the critieria of how someone is selected in the Onepocket Hall of Fame. Being the greatest one pocket player ever, I don't see as being a requirement there.

http://www.onepocket.org/fame.htm

Interesting approach at asking a question. Can't say I'd ever use it.
 
My thoughts exactly Lenny. (on the '09 DCC) That is why I have him ranked down a notch or so from some of the proven all time 1P player's
But thats all based on my personal observations. I do firmly believe, he could not have beat RA in his prime, at his level of play right now.
His shot selection against top players will improve, and I agree he could become one of the all-time greats...he's just not quite there YET.

I do think he is the best 1P player in the U.S. (maybe the world ) right now. He will only get better once he learns to NOT relinquish control of the game, when he is up against top player's in short races.
Do not base his play against an out of shape, way over the hill RA, no matter how much weight he was giving up....remember I was in with RA when they played. Ronnie would have won 2 or 3, races to 5 (if you watched the see-saw)...but he could not stand up to a long, grinding ahead session...he was cooked after 12 hours...he gave up with Scott still needing 1 or 2 more games in a 4 ahead race.

That is just the nature of tounament play...you don't get to play long races.

Have a great New Year Bud.

SJD

I agree SJD, its a shame because that one pocket tournament is no picnic, not sure of the head count but its usually in the hundreds. To me if Scott won DCC there would be less doubt and more believers as there are those who think Gabe is the best. Well today I am going to start a little project for you nuts and put a short video from live stream footage of moves that Scott plays in games. :wink:
 
That is a simple copout FL. You basically gave Scott an out to "not" do well, and negate any loss he might have as "his choice". It is bunk. IF the top players of the game, Efren, Gabe, Jones, Daulton, show up in a match against Scott he is in tough, any one of those players when they are in practice are certainly no worse then 50/50. Efren and Daulton are IMO better then 50/50 if they come into the tournament ready. They are favorites to beat Frost if they are playing right, even if he wants to win. Frost gets a big boost in the fact that Daulton virtually quit playing pool.

Daulton was a flat out better player back in the day, then Daulton quit, Frost did not, and now Daulton is a fraction of his former self and Frost got alot better. And you know what? Frost STILL does not have to beat Daulton, even with him playing at a considerably lower speed then he did in the past. Most of the reason Daulton lost to Reyes in Galveston was shot making, he actually moved well, got into good positions, but then he could not make the payoff shot. That is a man who has the moves and is simply out of practice.

You say Frost does not play every day? Frost puts a heck of alot more effort and time into the game then Daulton I would bet.

I have played many tournaments and beat plenty of players I probably should not have and if we were gambling I would not like it or bet it. In a tournament you win one set and the guy takes a walk and you move on, in gambling you have to face him until the money runs out or he quits. I am not saying Scott would not go to a tournament wanting or trying to win but he is a gambler at heart as other players are tournament players.

He might go to a tourney where first is $10,000 and he might be playing a set for that or $1,000 a game. I know when I play my weekly 9 ball with a first place of about $200 and someone wants to play $50 to $100 a game one pocket I know what I am doing. :wink:
 
Another good post Celtic. It was more the slow cloth that made pool so much different in the 60's and 70's. The best players had the most powerful strokes. Miz probably had the most powerful stroke of all time. And Worst and Cornbread may have been second. But all the good players could move the cue ball around the table. Shortstops like me just couldn't do the same things that a top player could, and we knew it. That limited our games.

Ronnie's peak years were probably from about his late 20's to his late 40's. He was the best One Pocket player on the planet for a good twenty years. If somehow a Ronnie in his prime were transported into the present, he would still be "wowing" the onlookers. He just did things playing One Pocket that no one else ever did, past or present. He could teach today's One Pocket players more than a few moves and shots they may not already know.

Most importantly, he could execute those shots. Shots that a lot of good players wouldn't even attempt. Like kicking three rails (from being buried behind the pack) and coming in behind a ball sitting by his opponents hole. The cue ball would tap that ball ever so gently and then touch the end rail for a perfect safe. He had completely turned the game around with that one shot. That was routine stuff for him. Another favorite shot of his was to kick (again from behind the pack) off the end rail and the side rail and back into the stack, sending several balls rolling toward his hole. If one went in, the game was over. He won from spots like this (usually ten and out!) so often that it ceased to surprise me after a while. He could read the pack better than anyone I ever saw.

And people say that Efren kicked better than Ronnie. Efren doesn't even know the shots Ronnie used to play. Kicking one rail into an open ball, Ronnie was even money to make that ball. Yes, he kicked okay I would say. He liked to kick a ball toward his hole and bury the cue ball in the stack. Scott wouldn't be too happy after a few hours of this kind of stuff. No one else was either.

As for Mosconi, he would be a great player in any generation. His cue ball control was as good or better than Efren. And he just never missed a ball! Probably even more flawless than Sigel. It might take him one day to adjust to the faster cloth. The man was a pool playing machine. Playing exhibitions every day for weeks at a time, on slow cloth, he would run a hundred or more every day! And he didn't get several chances to do it. He did it in his exhibition match, so he got exactly one chance, maybe two if he made a short run in his first inning. That's it! Mosconi came out there cold, shot a few balls and did some trick shots and then played a match against a local player. And then he ran a 100 balls or more, like clockwork. You think there's anyone who could do that today? I don't.

Once again, there are definitely many good players today. In fact some of the filipinos and Taiwanese are as good or better than anyone who came before them. I seriously doubt that even Lassiter, Miz or Sigel could have beaten Yang, Wu, Dennis or Alex. They may be better players (but not by much), so I'm not locked into the notion that someone today can't play better than the old time greats. But at One Pocket only Efren has reached the level of the greatest players I ever saw.
I always enjoy reading forums, Happy new year Jay, Hope all is well and cant wait to see everyone at the Derby. Alot of good pool to watch
 
See I even got Bankin B to make a rare appearance. Nice. Good luck @ The DCC. Always impressive to watch you play.
 
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