Scott, Tony and Shane are the future of U.S. One Pocket ?...not so fast

[1 Pocket Ghost]

Scott, Tony and Shane were mentioned several times on the Efren vs. Scott Frost thread as being the present and/or future champions/standard bearers of U.S. One Pocket.....Well, not so fast, there's two names that are glaringly missing from that proclamation: Gabe Owen and Larry Nevel - Everybody who saw them finish 1st & 2nd in the 2008 DCC One Pocket division, knows what I'm talking about....

....I've watched Scott, Tony, Gabe, & Larry play a lot, and played them a few times, so here's a few opinions/evaluations of mine:

Of the 4 of them, Scott probably knows the game the best.

For firepower, I think it's a toss-up between all 4 of them.

For cueball control and all varieties of stroke, I rate Larry best.

Banking is close to a pick-it between all 4 of them - possibly Tony is 4th here.

I could be wrong here, but I'm thinking for straight-shooting, Tony, Gabe, & Larry are even, with Scott a tad behind them.

Playing under heavy pressure, I think it's another toss-up, although maybe Larry ranks last in this facet.

How badly do they want to win, and won't give up.....I rank Tony last in this part.

And last of all, one very important part of the game where I rank Gabe and Larry above Scott and Tony is discipline....Gabe and Larry are better at staying smart, and resisting shooting at the tempting high risk shot.....Scott and Tony give in to this temptation a little too much.

What do all you knowledgable One Pocket observers/handicappers think of this comparison ?

 

[hemicudas]

Scott, Tony and Shane were mentioned several times on the Efren vs. Scott Frost thread as being the present and/or future champions/standard bearers of U.S. One Pocket.....Well, not so fast, there's two names that are glaringly missing from that proclamation: Gabe Owen and Larry Nevel - Everybody who saw them finish 1st & 2nd in the 2008 DCC One Pocket division, knows what I'm talking about....

....I've watched Scott, Tony, Gabe, & Larry play a lot, and played them a few times, so here's a few opinions/evaluations of mine:

Of the 4 of them, Scott probably knows the game the best.

For firepower, I think it's a toss-up between all 4 of them.

For cueball control and all varieties of stroke applications, I rate Larry best.

Banking is close to a pick-it between all 4 of them.

I could be wrong here, but I'm thinking for straight-shooting, Tony, Gabe, & Larry are even, with Scott a tad behind them.

Playing under heavy pressure, I think it's another toss-up, although maybe Larry ranks last in this facet.

How badly do they want to win, and won't give up.....I rank Tony last in this part.

And last of all, one important part of the game where I rank Gabe and Larry above Scott and Tony is discipline....Gabe and Larry are better at staying smart, and resisting shooting at the tempting high risk shot.....Scott and Tony give in to this temptation a little too much.

What do all you knowledgable One Pocket observers/handicappers think of this comparison ?

I tend to agree with everything you've said, Ghost. With the possible exception of, "High Risk Shots". What you or I would deem a high risk shot might not be so to another top OP player. What you have to go by is their % of pocketing a shot that we would deem, high risk. If the guy makes 90% of those shots then they are not high risk to him.

When I was in stroke, ages ago, I spun frozen balls in, rail first, as good as anyone. It was not a high risk shot to me. Yet to onlookers it might look like I was nuts for shooting the shot. I am sure you have a shot that is your long suit and you feel comfortable shooting it when others would not.

I totally agree about Gabe and Larry having the most discipline of the 4 mentioned.

 

[Russ Chewning]

Playing under heavy pressure, I think it's another toss-up, although maybe Larry ranks last in this facet.

How badly do they want to win, and won't give up.....I rank Tony last in this part.

I haven't seen Tony play that much, as he hasn't been in many Accu-Stats matches, but I would agree with your second point here. For being considered a One Pocket top gun, he doesn't seem to make it to the video rounds at DCC all that often.

I don't know if it is necessarily a lack of "bulldoggedness", or whatever, that is stopping him short of the semifinal/final rounds, but there is definitely leak in his game in this regard.

As far as Larry not playing well under heavy pressure, I would agree insofar as you are referring to heads up gambling pressure. I could easily see him as being the underdog gambling with Gabe and Scott, and it would be a tossup with him and Tony. Tournament pressure-wise, I see him being a wee bit weaker than Gabe (though honestly, Gabe dogged it a little this year, but still won in despite of a few bad strokes..), but stronger by far than the other two.

Russ

 

[bud green]

What the hell happened to Shannon Daulton and his one pocket game?

He won a number of major events like the Legends of One Pocket and his bank game is good as ever, why did he drop out of the top five for US players?

 

[bfdlad]

Let me ask you guys a question since you all seem to know 1 pocket very well. As the promoter of yesterdays event that went very well. I al already looking at a possible rematch later in the year. Aside from that match I can't take out a winner so in your opinions who would you match up with Scott in our next 1 pocket challenge to get the best results? Please let me know your thoughts,
Mark,

 

[Russ Chewning]

When I was in stroke, ages ago, I spun frozen balls in, rail first, as good as anyone. It was not a high risk shot to me. Yet to onlookers it might look like I was nuts for shooting the shot. I am sure you have a shot that is your long suit and you feel comfortable shooting it when others would not.

A big thing to consider when talking about high risk shots is the psychological pressure of missing the shot that 10% of the time. (And selling out) If a player can hold up well to that pressure, then they are good to go.

Example: I used to play One Pocket with a guy in Tacoma, and when balls would go up table, one of my moves was to pocket the last ball, returning it to the spot, and leave him in the corner pocket downtable on his side of the table.

This nut would cut the ball backwards into his pocket. He cut it in3 times in a row on me. Now, if you can visualize the shot, to cut it in his pocket, he has to barely miss scratching in mine. He kept making this high high risk shot, and finally, it got irritating enough to where I told him after leaving the shot one more time, "I'll keep leaving you this shot whenever it comes up, because the first time you undercut it and scratch in my pocket, you'll never be able to make it on me agin.

Turned out to be true.

What I mean by the example, is, if you consider a high risk shot to be easy, then by all means, shoot it. But if it is considered high risk, it is probably because it is in reality a tough shot. If you have to rely on tough shot after tough shot to win when playing someone, then I tend to think that you might be a little overmatche din the game.

I just got through watching Steve Cook decimate Jose Parica in an old One Pocket match. At that time, Jose was seen as a shooter, and not a mover. After a while, you could see the immense pressure that Jose was under whenever he had a chance to make a tough shot. He knew that against Steve Cook that particular day, his only chance was to make tough shots, because that was all eh was getting, and Steve was outmoving him by a ridiculous margin.

"Easy" tough shots are only easy until you know you HAVE to make them to have a chance in a game... Then, they become "TOUGH" tough shots...

Russ

 

[BackPocket9Ball]

Scott, Tony and Shane were mentioned several times on the Efren vs. Scott Frost thread as being the present and/or future champions/standard bearers of U.S. One Pocket.....Well, not so fast, there's two names that are glaringly missing from that proclamation: Gabe Owen and Larry Nevel - Everybody who saw them finish 1st & 2nd in the 2008 DCC One Pocket division, knows what I'm talking about....

....I've watched Scott, Tony, Gabe, & Larry play a lot, and played them a few times, so here's a few opinions/evaluations of mine:

Of the 4 of them, Scott probably knows the game the best.

For firepower, I think it's a toss-up between all 4 of them.

For cueball control and all varieties of stroke applications, I rate Larry best.

Banking is close to a pick-it between all 4 of them.

I could be wrong here, but I'm thinking for straight-shooting, Tony, Gabe, & Larry are even, with Scott a tad behind them.

Playing under heavy pressure, I think it's another toss-up, although maybe Larry ranks last in this facet.

How badly do they want to win, and won't give up.....I rank Tony last in this part.

And last of all, one important part of the game where I rank Gabe and Larry above Scott and Tony is discipline....Gabe and Larry are better at staying smart, and resisting shooting at the tempting high risk shot.....Scott and Tony give in to this temptation a little too much.

What do all you knowledgable One Pocket observers/handicappers think of this comparison ?

I think it would be tough not to include Corey Deuel in this mix. I think he has proven over the years that he can play one pocket as well as any of these four. And he's only 30.

 

[Russ Chewning]

What the hell happened to Shannon Daulton and his one pocket game?

He won a number of major events like the Legends of One Pocket and his bank game is good as ever, why did he drop out of the top five for US players?

Honestly? Two things.. Efren happened..

And, Shannon became less aggressive, while the rest of the field got much stronger. And they did so as a direct result of watching Efren play One Pocket.

Shannon could afford to be more aggressive against an aging group of veterans would didn't run 8 and out like water, and youngsters who couldn't move all that well. I think he was in a golden era where his straight shooting was good enough to beat down the old guard, and his moving was strong enough to just kill the youngsters.

I think now that the younger players know enough to move VERY well, Shannon's aggressive style of play became much more riskier. His aggressiveness lessened as a result, and he got puled back into the middle of the pack.

Remember, Shannon used to make everything he shot at, and won a lot of matches as a result. With Diamond tables coming to be the standard, it became a lot riskier to shoot at everything. His ratcheted back his aggressiveness, and that aggressiveness was probably his main assett that got him his One Pocket championships..

Russ

 

[Russ Chewning]

I think it would be tough not to include Corey Deuel in this mix. I think he has proven over the years that he can play one pocket as well as any of these four. And he's only 30.

I don't agree at all. He has proven he can run a lot of balls, not that he knows One Pocket. I would not bet on Corey playing One Pocket even against Gabe, Larry, or Scott. The only reason I would against Tony, is because I could see Tony falling off if the going got tough..

Russ

 

[1 Pocket Ghost]

I tend to agree with everything you've said, Ghost. With the possible exception of, "High Risk Shots". What you or I would deem a high risk shot might not be so to another top OP player.

QUOTE]


Bill, you got me wrong.....If I say I think Tony Chohan, or whoever, is shooting a shot that is too risky, I'm saying it, having taken that particular players skills into account.

 

[Snapshot9]

1 Pocket

I have not heard that much about Shane's 1 Pocket ability, didn't know he was right up there with the top flight of 1 Pocketers. But I do know Gabe's 1 Pocket game is good, and like I have been saying for years now (boy, time flies), Gabe has a finesse' about his game, and it shows in 1 Pocket.

BTW, James Walden plays prettty good 1 Pocket, and Danny Harriman too.
I hear John Schmidt is no slouch either. Even for the top 3,4, or 5, there are probably a bunch of players right below them that are good.

It would be interesting to see Shane play Danny Harriman 8 ball (race to 11), 9 ball (race to 30), 10 ball (race to 30) and 1 Pocket match (race to 6). I'm not so sure that Shane would win overall.

 

[senor]

I've played them all but Larry. I've only seen Larry play Sparky once a while back. In my subjective opinion I would rank Gabe 1st, Scott 2nd, Tony 3rd & Larry 4th. I couldn't and wouldn't be able to articulate my reasons as well as OPG did, but his reasoning seems sound. One thing that sticks out the most is I really think Gabe has the most grind in him, which kind of lends to OPG's opinion that he is less likely to take a shot that will lose him the game just because he's in a trap. Of the 4, I think Tony is the most likely to take a shot that will lose him the game when in a trap.

 

[desert1pocket]

I'm not really all that knowledgable, but I think you've made a pretty good assesment there Ghost.

I know Scott's game pretty well, and am familiar with Tony and Gabes games as well. I've seen a few videos of Larry, but don't know much about him other than what I've heard.

I was just talking to Earl Strickland about Larry Nevel the other day, and he said "I've got a pretty decent stroke, but Larry's is like a stroke and a half above mine. The things he can do with the cueball don't even seem possible, and not only that, but he has incredible control too." He went on to say he thought Larry is the best player ever not to have won a major tournament.

Some of the new young guns may prove to be top 1-pocket players someday, but I think it may take them a while to get there. This game isn't something that is quickly or easily mastered.

 

[gulfportdoc]

He has proven he can run a lot of balls, not that he knows One Pocket. I would not bet on Corey playing One Pocket even against Gabe, Larry, or Scott. The only reason I would against Tony, is because I could see Tony falling off if the going got tough..

That's right. At this time, Corey is a full level below the four players being discussed. He admits he doen't know the moves in one-hole. That's why he started using that smash 'em break against Shannon Daulton. Corey stated that he had no chance to outmove Shannon, so his strategy was to put himself into postion to run 8 and out every time it was his turn.

Corey has the talent to be in the top echelon of 1-holers, but I just don't think he really likes the game. He has the same mentality as Earl and many of the other top 9-ballers: they like to run racks. Period. SVB, on the other hand, is fascinated by every facet of every type of pool game. Once he turns his full attention to one-pocket, he will soar. He'll be "The Wizzard" from South Dakota...

Doc

 

[Russ Chewning]

I have not heard that much about Shane's 1 Pocket ability, didn't know he was right up there with the top flight of 1 Pocketers.

OPG can clarify, but I believe Shane is still 1-2 balls under these four players, and is probably 2-3 balls under Cliff. He's at least that much under Efren, but might not be able to play with Efren at all.

He seems to be an extremely quick learner, and these handicaps would probably change in a matter of weeks, if he were to study the game seriously with a champion One Holer.

Russ

 

[1 Pocket Ghost]

OPG can clarify, but I believe Shane is still 1-2 balls under these four players, and is probably 2-3 balls under Cliff.

He seems to be an extremely quick learner, and these handicaps would probably change in a matter of weeks, if he were to study the game seriously with a champion One Holer.

Russ

I agree with all of the above.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Let me ask you guys a question since you all seem to know 1 pocket very well. As the promoter of yesterdays event that went very well. I al already looking at a possible rematch later in the year. Aside from that match I can't take out a winner so in your opinions who would you match up with Scott in our next 1 pocket challenge to get the best results? Please let me know your thoughts,
Mark,

No doubt Cliff Joyner.

Scott & Cliff would be almost as good a draw as Efren

You could bill it as the US challenge.

Heck with that match you are almost setting the stage for future pecking order matches to determin the best...kind of like the UFC...instead of the UFC call it the USOPC

Have an undercard match between Tony & Gabe...and then a title match between Scott & Cliff

From there you can get a group of 12 notable one pocket players and throw them all in a house where they match up in knock out matches for the eventual champion.

You could have Scott and Cliff be the coaches for the players in the house...Call it "Ultimate One Pocket"

Series 2...."International Ultimate One Pocket"...Efren would be the coach of course for the international team.

 

[bfdlad]

No doubt Cliff Joyner.

Scott & Cliff would be almost as good a draw as Efren

You could bill it as the US challenge.

Heck with that match you are almost setting the stage for future pecking order matches to determin the best...kind of like the UFC...instead of the UFC call it the USOPC

Have an undercard match between Tony & Gabe...and then a title match between Scott & Cliff

From there you can get a group of 12 notable one pocket players and throw them all in a house where they match up in knock out matches for the eventual champion.

You could have Scott and Cliff be the coaches for the players in the house...Call it "Ultimate One Pocket"

Series 2...."International Ultimate One Pocket"...Efren would be the coach of course for the international team.

I tell ya, I love ya and hate ya at the same time. I love the idea and I think that maybe a great way to go wit hthe one pocket fans I hate the fact that everytime I think I have a break to work on one or two things someone comes up wit ha brilliant idea like this and makes my mind spin. I wanted the idea of who to play next against Scott, and you gave me that and so much more to think about. Awesome thank you

 

[Fast Lenny]

I would love to see Scott play Cliff so people will acknowledge he is number 2 in the world,he has been beating Cliff more so then not for the past 2 years,then people say Tony,well if Tony is then why does he want weight to play Scott.

 

[yobagua]

If the Filipinos werent so caught up in their nine ball tournaments in the Far East I think they would excel in the game. Like Jose and Efren did a generation ago. Dennis Orcullo with more one hole experience would have to be invited to that party. And the Europeans are now getting into it. Neils Feijen and Darren Appleton could become top one holers.