Secrets!

Mikjary said:
You knowhat, Brian, I can totally see your line of reasoning. If you feel you can cinch :grin: this cut without the spin, that is the shot. I'm not as much a thin cut kind of guy. I use it for pos when I should, but sometimes I like to either go down in flames or look like Efren. Either way I'd opt for spinning this shot in.

My mentors taught me to play like that, so it's not my fault. Of course they never missed shots anyway, so I believed them.:grin: I'd back up my opinion more convincingly if I dropped their names, but I don't want to embarrass them by telling all I was their student.

Best,
Mike
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Here remains the problem for me. I do not think I can make that 8 ball more than maybe 50% of the time, with or without spin (btw, I prefer the big spin on this shot, too).

Look at that cuetable layout and notice the cue ball is dead even with the center pockets and cheated in just one ball to the left (from the shooter's perspective).

The 8 ball, as you see, is between diamonds 1 and 2 and approx 1 ball off the cushion.

This ain't no gimme. :thumbup:

Tonight, I went down to my cave and set up this shot 10 times. I made it just 3 of the ten, left hangers twice, and scratched in the left side a couple of times when I hit the 8 a little fat.

Aside from when I scratched, the position was fairly easy to achieve.

I believe I could practice that shot and get it up to maybe 50 - 60%.

I'm a fat guy and this shot calls for me to be draped over the left head corner pocket with a longer bridge than my norm, all adding to the difficulty.

If the best I could hope for with this shot is 60%, then I think the purists would say, 'play it safe fat man'. :smile:

Can some of you please chime in and tell me, honestly, on 10 tries with this shot, how many times do you make it?

And at what percentage would you have to be to feel good about playing it, say you were at 7-7 in a race to 9, with a tough opponent?

Looking for some perspective.

Best,
Brian kc
 
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Kickin' Chicken said:
Here remains the problem for me. I do not think I can make that 8 ball more than maybe 50% of the time, with or without spin (btw, I prefer the big spin on this shot, too).

Look at that cuetable layout and notice the cue ball is dead even with the center pockets and cheated in just one ball to the left (from the shooter's perspective).

The 8 ball, as you see, is between diamonds 1 and 2 and approx 1 ball off the cushion.

This ain't no gimme. :thumbup:

Tonight, I went down to my cave and set up this shot 10 times. I made it just 3 of the ten, left hangers twice, and scratched in the left side a couple of times when I hit the 8 a little fat.

Aside from when I scratched, the position was fairly easy to achieve.

I believe I could practice that shot and get it up to maybe 50 - 60%.

I'm a fat guy and this shot calls for me to be draped over the left head corner pocket with a longer bridge than my norm, all adding to the difficulty.

If the best I could hope for with this shot is 60%, then I think the purists would say, 'play it safe fat man'. :smile:

Can some of you please chime in and tell me, honestly, on 10 tries with this shot, how many times do you make it?

And at what percentage would you have to be to feel good about playing it, say you were at 7-7 in a race to 9, with a tough opponent?

Looking for some perspective.

Best,
Brian kc
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You should cut it always.
 
JBKY said:
Thanks Lou,cause I know you've been around the block a time or two and are a good study of the game of pool.I guess It must be a secret, because I sure have seen alot of good players(top players) that don't seem to know It.I think It might be the hardest pool playing teachings to wright down that there Is too.It takes me a small book just to explain one simple shot.lol John B.
PS: If we play again promise not to use It on me.thanks
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Well one of the things that make it hard to write about pool stuff is that besides just describing the layout of the balls and whatever technique is pertinent, there is also the science behind the effect. And the things is most of us don't have the background to properly explain why what happens happens. So that a lone makes it tough.

And, if we play again I *will* use the shot against you and will probably go looking for a kitchen sink too :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Here remains the problem for me. I do not think I can make that 8 ball more than maybe 50% of the time, with or without spin (btw, I prefer the big spin on this shot, too).

Look at that cuetable layout and notice the cue ball is dead even with the center pockets and cheated in just one ball to the left (from the shooter's perspective).

The 8 ball, as you see, is between diamonds 1 and 2 and approx 1 ball off the cushion.

This ain't no gimme. :thumbup:

Tonight, I went down to my cave and set up this shot 10 times. I made it just 3 of the ten, left hangers twice, and scratched in the left side a couple of times when I hit the 8 a little fat.

Aside from when I scratched, the position was fairly easy to achieve.

I believe I could practice that shot and get it up to maybe 50 - 60%.
I'm a fat guy and this shot calls for me to be draped over the left head corner pocket with a longer bridge than my norm, all adding to the difficulty.

If the best I could hope for with this shot is 60%, then I think the purists would say, 'play it safe fat man'. :smile:

Can some of you please chime in and tell me, honestly, on 10 tries with this shot, how many times do you make it?

And at what percentage would you have to be to feel good about playing it, say you were at 7-7 in a race to 9, with a tough opponent?

Looking for some perspective.

Best,
Brian kc
Click to expand...

Brian,

These two highlighted lines say it all. The best in the world on a good day might fare slightly better. This shot's a lot easier when you have more balls on the table to hide the cue ball if you miss.

The thought of natural position from the eight ball to the nine ball is the only reason to take this flyer. Although it's a straight back bank, position gets tough because of the shot speed. I tried the shot, but without much success. I rattled a few, made several and left several for my opponent to shoot at. On a dead stroke day I might've made a couple more. My table has four inch pockets and there's only about the width of a tip extra to pocket balls on rail shots.

It's too low a percentage shot on the eight ball late in a race. Although I've been called Charlie Lindbergh :grin: by my constituents on occasion, I'd probably only shoot this shot as a two way shot on the lower numbered balls.

Best,
Mike
 
lfigueroa said:
Well one of the things that make it hard to write about pool stuff is that besides just describing the layout of the balls and whatever technique is pertinent, there is also the science behind the effect. And the things is most of us don't have the background to properly explain why what happens happens. So that a lone makes it tough.

And, if we play again I *will* use the shot against you and will probably go looking for a kitchen sink too :-)

Lou Figueroa
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Ain't that the truth. I asked Keith to please contribute to this thread a really cool shot, and he thought the "whip shot" was a good one to execute, but you need a good stroke to do it proficiently.

When I then said let's explain it, he said it's too hard to explain. It's a "feel" shot, and you need to show how the cue ball rolls up table and back down for perfect position.

I was willing to help him with the diagram, but I don't know how to use the Wei table or any of the others. It ain't easy pulling secrets out of Keith. He's willing to share, but it's hard to do it in writing. :p
 
I'm going to the pool hall tonight so I'll see how many times I can make it out of ten on the shot I described here. I'll post the results tonight or tomorrow morning. I expect to make it 5 or 6 times but I'll probably make it 3 times hahaha.

I still think its a good weapon to have in one's arsenal.
 
JAM said:
Ain't that the truth. I asked Keith to please contribute to this thread a really cool shot, and he thought the "whip shot" was a good one to execute, but you need a good stroke to do it proficiently.

When I then said let's explain it, he said it's too hard to explain. It's a "feel" shot, and you need to show how the cue ball rolls up table and back down for perfect position.

I was willing to help him with the diagram, but I don't know how to use the Wei table or any of the others. It ain't easy pulling secrets out of Keith. He's willing to share, but it's hard to do it in writing. :p
Click to expand...

Hi Jennie;

There is a 'how to use wei' sticky up top that explains it but if you're not in the mood (or more likely without the time) to delve into that tutorial, please let one of the resident cuetable experts here assist in bringing Keith's "whip shot" to the thread.

If he's willing to share, we have to facilitate it. :thumbup:

Best,
Brian kc
 
JAM said:
Ain't that the truth. I asked Keith to please contribute to this thread a really cool shot, and he thought the "whip shot" was a good one to execute, but you need a good stroke to do it proficiently.

When I then said let's explain it, he said it's too hard to explain. It's a "feel" shot, and you need to show how the cue ball rolls up table and back down for perfect position.

I was willing to help him with the diagram, but I don't know how to use the Wei table or any of the others. It ain't easy pulling secrets out of Keith. He's willing to share, but it's hard to do it in writing. :p
Click to expand...

Hello Jam,Can you ask Keith If he's talking about the big draw shot where the cball hits down below the sidepocket and whips and draws back down table? If that's the shot, somebody on here can do It for him.It really Is a cool shot and one I have had Keith pull on me a time or two.LOL Thanks anyway.Tell him to get up off that dang couch,haha.John B.
Jam,You need to learn how to use the Wei table...for keith.Ha
 
JAM said:
Ain't that the truth. I asked Keith to please contribute to this thread a really cool shot, and he thought the "whip shot" was a good one to execute, but you need a good stroke to do it proficiently.

When I then said let's explain it, he said it's too hard to explain. It's a "feel" shot, and you need to show how the cue ball rolls up table and back down for perfect position.

I was willing to help him with the diagram, but I don't know how to use the Wei table or any of the others. It ain't easy pulling secrets out of Keith. He's willing to share, but it's hard to do it in writing. :p
Click to expand...

I'd like to see Keith do a vidio of El Jugo...
 
I always thought it would be cool to have a bunch of the pro show/do a DVD of diffrent stroke shots and maybe add some commetarty from some of the instructor types.

Pete
 
JoeyA said:
I had a conversation with someone recently who mentioned that the professional pool players will tell you many things that will help your game but that there are some "secrets" that you will never pry from their minds.

This is obviously true and it has been my personal experience as well. I once asked Ralf Souquet what his technique was for maintaining composure and he said he would only reveal that only after his days of competition are over. I can understand that and I'm sure many of you can as well.

There are other things (secrets) that top players know that some of us don't know but I suspect that some secrets are idiosyncratic and may not be as valuable to others as they are for the person who thinks it is "the secret" to their success.

I think we all learn particular things which help our game but that they are relative to us as individuals. Sure, those unique things that we do to help us pocket balls might help others but not always. I haven't tested my theory out on any of the professional players but I would almost bet that they do unusual things to help them pocket balls but may be too embarassed to tell others how they perceive or execute the shots because it isn't in the books. ;) We all know that if it isn't in the books, then it can't be right. :p
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have never believed there are so many secrets to be unlocked. There are just different talent levels and those willing to work harder to develpe the over all game.
It has always seemed so obvious to me that those who have the talent to pocket balls, learn all the other things more easily. This made sense to me because without good ball pocketing skills one is always going to be just average at best.
i have heard for years that this guy is sop smart and moves so much better and on and on. He though is the one getting the weight and the one getting the weight loses about 80-90% of the time.
 
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How many times did someone tell you when you were a teenager they wished that they knew back then what they know now? The problem was they would never tell you what it was.



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a magic time

There are major "secrets" that are more general in nature but many of the "secrets" are more like trade secrets, the little things that someone picks up over many years of doing anything. Most craftsmen that have worked a trade for a decade or two have learned many little "slights", tricks that make their job easier or make the quality of their work a little better. The same is true of pool players, they pick up dozens of little things over time. When the right thing comes to mind in an unusual situation, that is like a trade secret used to deal with a minor issue.

At one point when I had played pool for over fifty hours a week for years I reached a point where when I saw an unusual situation I knew the solution to deal with it without reasoning it out. Hard to describe, it was like walking or driving a car. We don't think in detail how to do either one. For awhile I saw and understood the table seemingly without thought or effort. If there was a secret shortcut to that other than hitting a million balls that secret would be worth holding and selling to the highest bidder!

Hu
 
TheBook said:
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How many times did someone tell you when you were a teenager they wished that they knew back then what they know now? The problem was they would never tell you what it was.
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In my experience, the problem is not with the older folk keeping secrets; it is the young ones not listening. (Although I don't really think that this is a 'problem' - the fact that the young refuse to listen to good advice is a very good thing imho. It's what keeps the human race advancing)
 
Siz said:
In my experience, the problem is not with the older folk keeping secrets; it is the young ones not listening. (Although I don't really think that this is a 'problem' - the fact that the young refuse to listen to good advice is a very good thing imho. It's what keeps the human race advancing)
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That's how we got the Scott Frosts and so on, they didn't listen to all that play it safe crap!!
 
ironman said:
have never believed there are so many secrets to be unlocked. There are just different talent levels and those willing to work harder to develpe the over all game.
It has always seemed so obvious to me that those who have the talent to pocket balls, learn all the other things more easily. This made sense to me because without good ball pocketing skills one is always going to be just average at best.
i have heard for years that this guy is sop smart and moves so much better and on and on. He though is the one getting the weight and the one getting the weight loses about 80-90% of the time.
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Lewis,
You are right about the one getting the weight coming up short most of the time. It is the way of the world for the most part.

There are different talent levels and the willingness to work harder to develop a person's overall game is sure to bring the cream to the top.
HOWEVER, these secrets that we speak about are just that, SECRETS that have either been kept from a person because of lack of talent in the area where they reside, economic circumstances, lack of experience in acquiring knowledge or just laziness on their part.

Some SECRETS come easily to a few. Most people do not have the inquisitive nature or the tenacity/work ethic necessary to discover the SECRETS for themselves. It is threads like this that open the window for some of us.
 
I'm not a professional, but I've won a dollar or two here and there. To a novice, everything about pool is a secret until they learn by accident or go to a teacher. I give free advice to anyone who asks, but save the "secrets" for paying students.
 
Like I was told once (or was it more) by a pro, "I've taught you everything you know, but not everything I know." :wave2: :thumbup2: :yeah:

Best,
Brian kc
 
Mikjary:
The secret side of this shot is the spin on the cue ball will give enough speed from the throwing action to pocket the ball.
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Don't think so... the cut is too thin for any throw in the direction of the pocket. The direction of spin-induced throw is perpendicular to the line between the centers of the CB/OB at contact (i.e., the direction in which the CB's surface rubs across the OB's surface).

pj
chgo
 
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