Security of this sub forum

[cueman]

Now everyone can understand why I have refused to sell a lathe for someone else and have it shipped. The buyer pays me the 10% deposit then I put them together and have the buyer pick the lathe up in person with cash in hand. This does limit it to the buyers that are willing to drive and pick it up, but it eliminates the possible damage in shipment or failure to deliver the product at all. I have not been willing to put myself in the middle of any transactions that are not face to face finalized.

 

[pescadoman]

What I am pointing out is that it's easy to get lulled into a feeling of false security because this place feels much more intimate than Craigslist when in fact it's not.

JC

That's why you have to be even more careful........

I don't know if or how much profit this site makes and it's none of my business. I DO believe that the moderators are volunteers.

What you are asking, obviously, is the owner of the forum to do the background checking you could have done easily....

I have the "benefit" of having the, for all intents and purposes, same thing happen to me. Well known member of Fredmiranda "sold" me a lens. He had done numerous successful transactions and lived in......wait for it.....England. Same deal... I sent it....let me find the tracking...blah...blah....blah...

After a year I finally got my money back, but the means in which I did it would most likely be frowned upon. 2200.00. That number is pretty ironic considering what has happened.

Looking back it was a really stupid thing to do, trusting someone I had never met. It never occurred to me that it was anyone else's fault though.

You can't trust anyone...and I mean anyone....when it comes to money. I loaned 30k to a friend to save his house and, most likely, his marriage. The understanding was that is was to be paid back in 3 years. He made the FIRST payment, then went MIA for 6 months. Finally had to knock on his door. To his credit, he finally paid me off, gradually, over the next 8 years. We called it good at 3k less than we initially agreed upon. I've known him for 20 years....

 

[MVPCues]

Is this site a non profit? If not then every part of it that makes it some place a reader might want to frequent is "for profit".

I am the main culprit in my stupidity. They provided an environment for which it to flourish. This place is the wilderness, posing as civilization.

JC

I honestly feel for you. Thieves make me madder than my ex-wife.

Your feelings are understandable but they are incorrect. If a thief places an add in the paper and rips someone off it isn't the fault of the newspaper. If the newspaper knew exactly who the person was ahead of time and knowingly let him purchase the add then maybe. That isn't the case here. Unless you are saying the AZ moderators and owner KNEW who that was ahead of time and KNEW he would rip someone off, you have no case against AZ Billiards.

This is a forum. It isn't ebay. This isn't a commercial sales site for profit. Whether they make a profit or not out of volunteer premium memberships or advertisers doesn't matter one bit. Do you really expect moderators of a forum to carry on private investigation on every forum member who asks to sell something? It is literally and completely a free site for anyone that does not want to be a paying/premium member or official advertiser.

I hate to say this because I'm going to sound mean, but you are the ONLY culprit in your stupidity. The only other (and real) culprit here is the guy who ripped you off.

 

[JC]

I honestly feel for you. Thieves make me madder than my ex-wife.

Your feelings are understandable but they are incorrect. If a thief places an add in the paper and rips someone off it isn't the fault of the newspaper. If the newspaper knew exactly who the person was ahead of time and knowingly let him purchase the add then maybe. That isn't the case here. Unless you are saying the AZ moderators and owner KNEW who that was ahead of time and KNEW he would rip someone off, you have no case against AZ Billiards.

This is a forum. It isn't ebay. This isn't a commercial sales site for profit. Whether they make a profit or not out of volunteer premium memberships or advertisers doesn't matter one bit. Do you really expect moderators of a forum to carry on private investigation on every forum member who asks to sell something? It is literally and completely a free site for anyone that does not want to be a paying/premium member or official advertiser.

I hate to say this because I'm going to sound mean, but you are the ONLY culprit in your stupidity. The only other (and real) culprit here is the guy who ripped you off.

Well I guess that's where we must differ as humans. If I had as much of my heart and soul into a project as the owners of this site obviously do, I would take it personally if something like this happened. I would feel personally affronted and weigh in. But that's just me.

I hate one of my ex wives more than I hate common thieves. Because she fits both categories and several others. I have a long history of trusting the wrong people. :smile:

JC

 

[iusedtoberich]

In the action room, Fast Lenny took it upon himself to start AND maintain a thread of people that pay up, and that do not pay up. Guys like SC5 (known stiffer) make a new screen name every month, and they are almost immediately sniffed out.

It works remarkably well.

Can a similar sticky thread be made here?

 

[MVPCues]

Well I guess that's where we must differ as humans. If I had as much of my heart and soul into a project as the owners of this site obviously do, I would take it personally if something like this happened. I would feel personally affronted and weigh in. But that's just me.

I hate one of my ex wives more than I hate common thieves. Because she fits both categories and several others. I have a long history of trusting the wrong people. :smile:

JC

I completely understand that perspective. I would probably feel the same way you suggest if it was my forum. Objectively, taking things personally (as cuemakers but not necessarily business men that is very easy for us to do) and having a true responsibility are two different things.

For the record, I don't really know how the owner feels about it, so I'm not assuming he doesn't care.

 

[MVPCues]

In the action room, Fast Lenny took it upon himself to start AND maintain a thread of people that pay up, and that do not pay up. Guys like SC5 (known stiffer) make a new screen name every month, and they are almost immediately sniffed out.

It works remarkably well.

Can a similar sticky thread be made here?

That is a great idea. It would work great if adequately maintained and people simply couldn't sell in this forum if they are not on the list, or anyone who tried was unanimously ignored.

 

[ideologist]

That is a great idea. It would work great if adequately maintained and people simply couldn't sell in this forum if they are not on the list, or anyone who tried was unanimously ignored.

Or that they can sell here, but need to ship first if not on the list.

 

[jazznpool]

As a sidebar I want to warn those who accept credit cards to be very careful. Just because a credit card is processed as good does not mean the transaction is not fraudulent and bank will fund the purchase. Thus can take up to 48 hours and if the goods have already been shipped you're toast. I'm still shaking from the super close call I had last month for 2k. Professional fraud perpetrators are actively looking to victimize sellers in the cue industry. Beware. My new policy is all large credit card purchases from people I do not know now must wait 2-3 days before the item can ship.

 

[pdcue]

Well I guess that's where we must differ as humans. If I had as much of my heart and soul into a project as the owners of this site obviously do, I would take it personally if something like this happened. I would feel personally affronted and weigh in. But that's just me.

I hate one of my ex wives more than I hate common thieves. Because she fits both categories and several others. I have a long history of trusting the wrong people. :smile:

JC

I'm Guessing your Nanny recently resigned. Get a new one.

Dale

 

[JC]

I'm Guessing your Nanny recently resigned. Get a new one.

Dale

Thanks Dale, very helpful!

John

 

[Mcues]

I'm sure none of us has time to do thorough research on each individual transaction. Of course, for large amounts we better find the time. There's always some signs: Feel free to add to list;

1. Lacking trader feedback
2. New to forum
3. Lots of postings and responses within the first 60 days.
4. Certain geographical known areas
5. Refusing to use Paypal
6. Wanting a check *
7. unwillingness to give a Phone number
8. NO known references

 

[pdcue]

Thanks Dale, very helpful!

John

It would be if you could find a way to get over yourself. Can you really NOT see
how ludicrously self involved you are?

Dale(only moderately self involved)

 

[JC]

It would be if you could find a way to get over yourself. Can you really NOT see
how ludicrously self involved you are?

Dale(only moderately self involved)

I don't even know what that means.

Pretty sure its an insult, scold or put down of some kind though.

Again, thanks for the help buddy......

JC

 

[pdcue]

I don't even know what that means.

Pretty sure its an insult, scold or put down of some kind though.

Again, thanks for the help buddy......

JC

"I don't even know what that means."
-----------------------------------------------------

Reading a few of the replies to your rant might help clear things up.

Dale

 

[shakes]

There are over 50,000 members and over 5,000,000 posts. There's no way the owner and moderators can track everything. There's no telling how far behind they are on emails coming in. Just because he doesn't respond within a couple of days doesn't mean he doesn't care. There are no telling how many other issues he has to deal with and he may just not have gotten to yours yet.

Having said that, there was a really good thread describing all of this guys previous forum names and it's not a sticky. They may not be responsible for anything that happens, but making that a sticky seems like the responsible, and really smart, thing to do. I agree with the others that if you're using checks, or money orders, or other means of payment without a direct means of recouping your money, then it should go through escrow. There are many threads detailing good transactions this way, and I believe a couple of forum members who offer the service themselves.

Always keep your guard up, gentlemen.

 

[gambler67]

to my knowledge ebay now allows you to sell pre ban ivory and state the item as ivory

 

[KissedOut]

Ok here's the root problem with this guy scamming here. Not trying to skirt my share of the blame for being trusting and careless but.........

This site has decided to provide a couple of buy sell forums here but takes no responsibility for oversight. I got stuck by a guy who has been here with 20 different usernames predating my cue building hobby. When I went public with my situation multiple members immediately knew who I was dealing with.

So why was he here for months before my deal with him? Why didn't anyone notice the MO and clean up the problem? If I knew then what I know now I would have spotted him a mile away like others did. The only ones I am sure have been a constant here since day one of his scamming is the moderators and site owners.

Where were they?

This sub forum moves very slowly and is not hard to keep track of. Not like some where threads drop off page one in an hour. There is real money changing hands here, not insults and micro aggressions like in the aiming thread. So who is watching the henhouse?

My thread has a lot of good input from a lot of smart members. Always use this, never do that, be sure to protect yourself with the other. WHERE IS A STICKY OF ANY KIND AT THE TOP OF THIS FORUM!! Why isn't the beware Jeff Forney thread dredged up from oblivion when it became relevant again up there as a sticky? I frankly had false security, feeling this community was tighter than it really is.

I am now going to say something which I'm sure will be very unpopular and I'm sorry but it needs to be said. If the owners of this site can't do at least a minimal job of protecting the commerce going on here then this and the other buy sell forum needs to be shut down. Period.

I did not want to post this publicly but I sent a PM to Mike (AZhousepro) several days ago with my concerns and got no reply.


JC

You want the moderators to do a better job of sussing out scam sellers, for the $35 a yearly gold membership costs, than you yourself did with $2,000 on the line.

It sucks that you got scammed, but if the lesson you took from it is that the site is at fault in any way whatsoever, it probably won't be the last time. YOU need to start being a little more serious about online transactions, not expect it all to magically work out for you.

I have tons of sympathy for someone who gets scammed, and screwed and has to pay a price. I have far less sympathy if that person turns around and tries to blame some third party who, in the big picture, had nothing to do with it.

I think when some more time has passed and the emotion of this has passed you will see the injustice of your complaint against this site.

And hey, you have his address. Make yourself feel better by adding him to a million mailing lists.